Shelley & Erik Branine | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #295

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe. Well excited to be back here at Discussion Combustion. We do have a returning guest, Erik Branine, and he is joined by his absolutely amazing wife, Shelley.

[00:00:25] And you have recently completed writing a book, working on, you have a publisher. Yes. Okay, so we're super excited about that. And you guys came prepared today. Looking good. Looking good. Appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, I wrote a book.

[00:00:47] And the reason I wrote it is because my two daughters graduated from college a week before finishing high school. So a week before high school graduation, they had their college degrees and it cost us nothing. How does that work? Right? Yeah. Like how?

[00:01:02] So that's why the book came about because people say what? Like, I want to know. Yeah. So, I mean, I, we just kind of discovered that in Colorado, if you take college classes while in high school, you don't have to pay for them. The state pays for them.

[00:01:18] Hmm. And so, um, we graduated college with a lot of student loan debt and, um, we were just determined that that wasn't going to happen to our kids. And so, um, we just kind of found this pathway that you can do. And really every state has something similar. So it's not just Colorado. Okay. And what does like the enrollment to that look like? Like when can it begin and how soon can they dive into that?

[00:01:43] Yeah. So they can start as early as a freshman in high school. Um, a lot of school districts don't tell you that. Interesting. Um, a lot of the information that this can be hidden from parents because the money that would generally stay at the school is going to go out the door to a college. And so, um, but they can, they can, um, start as early as like a freshman in high school and they can take, I mean, I've seen kids get bachelor's degrees in high school.

[00:02:12] My girls just got associate degrees. I mean, how, how many hours a day are these children, like, you know, young adults studying for like if they're, cause they still have to attend their high school classes too, no? So, excuse me. Um, they, so it, it kind of depends on how you do it. There are different ways. So here in Colorado, we have what are called early colleges where kids can just go and it's just like a high school campus, but all they're doing is taking college classes there.

[00:02:42] But you can also do it just through the school district. So like I go to Arapahoe high school and, um, I can leave the high school and go to a community college and take community college classes there. Or Arapahoe is one of the better high schools where they actually bring professors right to the school. Okay. And so you could just take it in place of a high school class. Really? Yeah. That's, that's, that's, this seems like a major life hack. It is a major life hack.

[00:03:11] I think I've heard about that before, but I certainly was never aware of it where I grew up in New Hampshire. I don't know. I'm not sure. I mean, you say it's available in most states. They offer it state funding. They just don't advertise it for obviously specific agenda reasons. Yeah. Money. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Some school districts are better than others. I feel like some states are better than others. But parents have to be very proactive in finding the information for their kids. Interesting.

[00:03:37] And so you worked within the school system, right? So that's kind of how you knew that all this stuff existed and, and, and kind of edged your daughters to do this? Yeah. So I was a teacher for 20 years. And, um, also right after I graduated college, I worked in an admissions office at the college. And I kept seeing these kids coming in with college credits, 18 years old. And I was like, what's going on with that? Yeah. Cause here we had all this debt and I was just like, well, like, how is that possible? So I knew about it way back then too. Interesting.

[00:04:07] Yeah. I'm still paying off like an associate's degree that I almost got. Everybody is. You know, like I, I'm like 12 credits away from this thing and I've been paying it off for it. And you're still paying, everybody is. Yeah. But I didn't know that. It's because I'm just now getting dialed. Well, that's fair. But so with this kind of information, because when you're young, like it's all, I'll deal with that later type of mentality. I definitely had that mentality. I think we all do. That's a hundred years from now kind of attitude. Yeah. Don't worry about that later. Yeah. Like that. Right. Yeah. Everything is going to catch up.

[00:04:36] I've learned now that you end up paying for everything. So, um, I can only imagine between the two of you, like the debt coming out of college was probably significant enough to like be kind of a burden. Like as far as like, cause, cause that is a problem with like the system, right? Like you go in, you try to get an education and then the job market isn't always easy. And then you're, you have these large debts. And so I've never even heard of like this, this path that you're talking about.

[00:05:06] Does it have a name? Yeah. So in Colorado, it's called concurrent enrollment. Um, more commonly people call it dual enrollment because you're enrolled in both high school and college. Um, some places call it early college. So it's different in every state. So that's why parents kind of have to do their research. But they could probably search one of those like concurrent or early college enrollment, dual enrollment, and then maybe kind of start finding it from there. They could. Yep.

[00:05:35] And I have a lot of that information on my website too. So, um, they can always look there and, and see if I have some of that information. And what's that website? We'll drop in the show notes down below, but just so. Yeah. So it's Shelly, S-H-E-L-L-E-Y for nine, B-R-A-N-I-N-E.com. Perfect. That's easy enough. You got your own name as URL? Again, when you're writing a book, that's kind of way new. Nice. Nice. We, we had a website like early on. We did. And we didn't really utilize it that well.

[00:06:05] In this industry, you know, we weren't selling specific products. So for us, the website didn't really do a whole lot. Yeah. The idea of it made sense. We had the discussion combustion.com, but the social media aspect is where we got a lot more traction rather than a, you know, URL. That's true. Yeah. But that makes sense. I feel like I get the same, but I do have a blog on my website that just has information for parents. Okay. So. Nice. And do you like, um, with that, do you like try to drive people from your social to the website by like, Hey, chat out this blog here.

[00:06:35] Yeah. You know, that's, that's kind of like the plan as far as. That's kind of where I am right now. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a while to get organized. Like you can have these creative ideas and I think humans inherently are creators. Like we want to create stuff. Yeah, I agree. But there's, there's a lot of, to get it out to people. There's actually a lot of other things that you got to do. Right. You know? And so that's, that's what I believe normally deters people because if it was easy, like the quote is everybody would do it sort of thing.

[00:07:04] But it's, it's actually true. It's so true. And I think about like our kids and just the ridiculous stuff that they watch someone playing video games and you're like, wow, people actually. It's amazing. It really is. I'm guilty. Myself. Are you watching it like as a walkthrough or like, are you being entertained by someone else playing a game? So it, it depends.

[00:07:28] I guess I like watching what kind of games are coming out and a lot of them I'll never play, but I like watching stuff about video games. But to your point, how is that benefiting me? You know, that's like something I can do after all my chores are complete. Like watch someone else play a game. Yeah. Yeah. Or play one myself maybe. But it's fair. It's like if you're spending all your time and I didn't grow up with smartphones. I know Kev didn't. Neither you did either.

[00:07:54] So it's like we actually got to experience childhood in a lost way. It's no longer, it doesn't exist anymore, at least in the United States. Right. Right. So it's like how is that? I don't have kids. So how is that affecting children as they grow up and their attention spans? Like there's a lot that goes into all that. Well, I think you do have to, as a parent, kind of monitor how much screen time your child has.

[00:08:23] And we really were fortunate that a lot of the social media and even shorts, whether it's a YouTube short or TikTok, Instagram, kind of came about when they were older in life. Yeah. Because we got them involved with outdoor activities. They played sports. Perfect. They were involved in gymnastics, ballet, that kind of stuff when they were little.

[00:08:45] So they already had that, you know, innate ability to go out and do stuff outside of sitting in front of a computer screen or on a tablet or a phone or something. But today's parents, I don't know. I guess my advice would be put limits on how much time they have on screen time and make sure that you're getting them outdoors. Make sure you're enrolling them in sports or clubs and activities.

[00:09:09] Somewhere where they're getting face-to-face interaction with someone, not interaction through a computer screen or a phone. Yeah. I think that's the big battle, too. And how much of it is like online learning? You know, you look at these classes that people take online and, you know, with AI coming and where it's going, like, what do you think that looks like for the future of education? Online? I don't think that, because I've heard that, too, that AI is going to replace, like, the teacher.

[00:09:38] And I don't think that that's realistic, that teachers need to be worried they're going to lose their jobs. Who wants an AI teaching their kids? Like, no one. But I do think it's going to start playing more of a role in education. I do think online classes are becoming more and more popular, which to me is disappointing. And I know you kind of feel the same way.

[00:10:04] Because there's just something about taking a class with a person, I think. Both of my kids much prefer in-person classes, too. And also, we always laugh, but you can talk the teacher out of stuff, like, when you're sitting there in person. That's a good point. So, when I got my master's degree, it was all in person, and we would talk these teachers out of everything. Can you just eliminate that assignment? You can't do that if it's online. That's a good point. I never thought of that. Yeah, it takes away that human element, right? Right.

[00:10:34] And everyone's talking about AI and what it's doing. And we were talking before we jumped on mic, you know, about writing a book and how AI, it's too uncanny. I've heard it called that before. It's too predictable. Like, the wording of it, you can just kind of tell the human element has been removed from it, right? And I guess my question to you is to kind of breaking down the process of writing, the struggles of it. You've got to get an editor involved, publishing. Like, I'm sure there's a lot of layers to unpack with that. Like, there are a lot of layers.

[00:11:03] So, and I've learned so much. It was my dream to write a book since I was in, like, second grade. So, I've always kind of had it in my mind. But when I actually started to do it and learn, like, what the process is, it was crazy. So, like, I have three editors, three different editors that it's going through. I mean, so many things. Like, I had a title that I loved, and they were like, yeah, we hate your title. You're going to have to change that. And I was just like, but I love it.

[00:11:30] And now, looking back, I'm like, no, it was a totally stupid title. But, I mean, yeah, there are just so many people. It's good to be humble. It's always good to stay humble, but we can't. Right. Yeah, and writing a book is definitely humbling. I'm sure. And so, what was the title? And can you tell us what it is now? Can we talk about that? I'm so embarrassed to tell you now because everybody I told looked at me like I was insane. So, it was called The College Debt Solution. Okay.

[00:11:58] So, you can still find me in some places at The College Debt Solution, but that's all going to transition. Okay. Now, we still don't have a title. Okay. But they're kind of liking finish college in high school, something along those lines. Finish college, okay. Makes more sense, right? Finish college in high school. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first title worked too, though. I mean, that would catch my attention. But you never, you don't, even when you were reading her media kit and you're like, they finished college in high school. Yeah, well, that's.

[00:12:25] And then we were in here like, what's going on with that? How do you do that? So. It's more catchy. Yeah. So, are the three editors all with the same company? No. So, I had my own editor that I hired. She was a developmental editor and just kind of would just talk me through the process and make it everything better. And I had been published in several places, like articles and things like that.

[00:12:54] So, I knew what I was doing as a writer, but even still, she was like, yeah, no, you're not ready. So, she helped me through that process. And then when I found my publisher, they have two different editors that they work with. And so, we're working with them now. So, there's a lot of moving parts to it. And I'm sure you have to be open to like constructive criticism as you were with the title. Very open. Because, I mean, it's passionate. You wrote it, you know, it's your work, it's your art. And then people are like, well, we need to critique this or that. You got to kind of trust these guys a little bit. You do.

[00:13:24] And it's like my baby. And so, I'm like, it's scary. Yeah. To be able to give them my baby and have them. And then they'd like rake it over the coals. We hate this. We hate this. And then I'll be like, I have an idea for the cover. And they're like, no, that is so amateur. And then I'm like, oh, you're right. Like after the fact, yeah, that is so amateur. Well, I mean, this is the first book you've written. Right. So, I don't know. You know?

[00:13:52] I mean, when you're first doing something. And like I was alluding to earlier, like a lot of people are, they think about it. They want to do it. But they actually don't ever take the leap. Yeah. You know, because the commitment, the follow through, organizing three different editors, you know, stuff like that. Like it's not easy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, they say almost everybody says they want to write a book, but hardly anybody actually does it. That's true. That's so much work. Yeah. And then the marketing side of it, right?

[00:14:22] Which you're essentially getting ready to do this being part of it. Right. Self-promoting, social media, all that stuff. It's constant, right? Because now you got to get it in front of people. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so hard for writers. Like we don't, we want to be hiding behind a pen and a paper and a computer. So yeah, it's really hard. And publishers don't really market for you. They expect you to do all of that. So a publisher, they're just like printing it. They just have the copies available to print.

[00:14:50] Like do you buy them in bulk or do you like just do it as it's purchased? I guess there's different options. Yeah. So in my case with my publisher, I can buy them in bulk for like cost and then I can sell them myself or they can buy them through Amazon and then it will go through the publisher that way. And you like have like a convenience fee or like something. Through Amazon? Or like, so potentially you could, and I'm just, I don't know how it works.

[00:15:18] So if you were to buy in bulk and you sold all those at your price that you wanted, or if you sold the equivalent amount through Amazon, would you make more profit off the bulk buy or the per purchase? So you always make more money when you don't go through Amazon. Okay. That makes sense. Authors have very much of a love, hate, mostly hate relationship with Amazon. They take a big percent. A big percent. Yeah. But they handle all the shipping, the packing, right? Yeah. That kind of removes that headache. I mean, you have to sell your book on Amazon anymore.

[00:15:47] You can't bypass it. That's what Amazon was known for in the beginning. Right. Right. Those books. I remember. Kindle came out. Movies and DVDs and stuff. People read on it. Are you going to do an audio book? I am. Okay. Yeah. So you've got to narrate the whole thing once it's done. Yeah. They say you can hire an actor to do it, but I think I'm just going to do it myself. It's more authentic that way coming from the author, I think. I've been listening to, I've actually completed an act. Okay. I'm getting distracted. First, I want to thank you for your 20 years of being a teacher because I remember you said

[00:16:14] that and I forgot to thank you because that's an amazing, amazing gift to the community. So first I want to thank you there. And then second of all, I've been listening to a lot of audio books recently and the ones that have been read by the author, it's, there's like this, you can hear this passion in their voice. So there is a difference. Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting and it's nerve wracking because you're like recording, you want to get your take right.

[00:16:44] You're trying to say your words clearly and announced. So it's perfect recording of your book. So that's probably a challenge within itself too. And then you're not going to just read it all in one sitting. So you got to come back and make sure the levels are correct. I'm sure that there's professionals out there that handle all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I will be definitely, definitely be getting a professional. Um, he could do it with his background, but not me. I will be definitely, I will definitely be getting a professional to help me.

[00:17:13] Eric, you can totally set that up. Sure. Why not? Yeah. Make sure that the audios are dialed every time they come in. Right. You know? Yeah. In home production. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that part's going to be huge though. Cause now you're capturing the online audience. Got the, I know like art, you're, you're an audio book guy rather than. Yeah. It's like recently and you know, before, so I've, I've listened to like six, five or six audio books so far this year. So almost one a month and that's six books in half of a year.

[00:17:44] Right. Looking back on paperbacks, like six books, it was probably like a decade that I read six books. Really? So it's really accelerated the amount that I'm of knowledge that I'm able to take in. But for anybody who's like a big reader and absorbing information, like it's cool to know stuff, but until you actually start applying it, like it doesn't matter. So for any of those like people out there that are like, Oh, I know this. I know that.

[00:18:13] I'm like, but are you actually applying and doing this stuff? Cause that's the true test of like, I listen to self-help books and like stuff on stoicism and like think and grow rich, like all those types of, um, law of attraction. I love all those types of books. Yeah, I do too. You know? So for me, when I'm listening to stuff, I, I want to do my best to apply it. Um, and if people are applying how to finish college in high school, then that is a, that's a game changer. I mean, like I'm still paying my college debt, like I was saying.

[00:18:44] And I think it's, it's such an interesting concept. I've never even, you know, heard about this, but, and I know I asked, but like the kids can earn college and high school credits in one class simultaneously. That's crazy. Dual enrollment. Yeah. We're learning a lot here about that. So the, the target audience for this, I would assume is going to be parents of, you know, kids that are getting ready for that. Right. Ready for high school. Ready for high school. Cause there's probably, they need to get prepared for it and understand the information. So that's going to be the target audience, right?

[00:19:13] It's probably 25 to 40 age bracket ish. Yeah. Maybe 30 to, you know, cause that's like the, like the target demographic. That's the big thing in marketing. One thing we did notice that's interesting though, is a lot of parents that are interested in her book tend to be parents who already have a student who is in college. So they already see the effects of having to pay for tuition and housing and books and all the costs that goes along with putting a child through college.

[00:19:40] And they maybe didn't, or they didn't take advantage of, or they weren't even aware of dual enrollment concurrent ed for that child. But they've got another child who's maybe in junior high, high school. And so they're looking at this as an alternative to be able to get some of that tuition knocked down so that they don't have to pay as much. Because I mean, think of if you've got two, three, four kids that you have to put through college each time, that's, you know, a dollar amount.

[00:20:08] And if you can eliminate some of that cost before your child even sets foot on a college campus, why wouldn't you? And the other thing is that a lot of parents don't realize how expensive college has become. So it has outpaced the price of inflation by 500%. So. Over how much time? Since like, oh gosh, I'll have to, don't quote me on this, but I think it's, well,

[00:20:34] it's since like student loans, that whole industry kind of came in and started getting really shady about the sixties and seventies. It just skyrocketed. And so you basically have the colleges, the student loan companies and the federal government all colluding together and making massive amounts of money off of student loans. It's horrific. So that's shocking to parents when they actually start looking at colleges and they're like, wait, what?

[00:21:01] Like this was not how much it cost me. And I thought it was expensive when I went. Yeah. It's just outrageous. It's a, you know, I'll, I'll kind of walk a fine line here with what I say next, just because if there's anything that involves the powers that be and a lot of money, then you're always going to be going up a hill when you're educating people on this type of information.

[00:21:33] So I, I love it personally and the empowerment and the freedom that you can help provide families by sharing this information is it's like much bigger than yourself. It's like, you know, if you can help two families, you know, set up their kids. Cause that alleviates stress when you don't have debt, like having stress and interest that and like that affects so many areas of life. It does. That's crazy. Yeah, it absolutely does.

[00:22:02] And I mean, kids today are graduating with six figures in student loan debt. It's amazing. It's just, and then tied to it for 30 years. Tied to it. And like our daughter, so she graduated a year ago. Thankfully we were just so fortunate that she doesn't have any, but she hasn't been able to find a full-time job for a year. That's, that's the other part about it is once they have that degree going to market with it, you know, there's some obstacles there. Yeah. Well, and what, what ends up happening using our daughter as an example.

[00:22:29] So you go out after you finish your undergrad, you're starting to look for your first job. Maybe you're not getting much interest. You're just not having luck. So what is our natural instinct? Well, I should probably go back and get more schooling. Hmm. Well, that's more debt that you're taking on to get whatever it is, whether it's a master's or certification, uh, whatever you feel like you need in order to get that job because you've been told no, or you just haven't had that much luck.

[00:22:55] And so you're just compounding the problem by taking on more debt to take on more classes. And maybe you get that job, but maybe you don't. And then you're, you know, you're even further down. You still got the payments and stuff. Right. And then you do the deferments. That's why I'm still paying for mine because I was an absolute. That's what happened to us. I was not being smart with my money in the past. And so, yeah, I mean, I could probably pay it down pretty soon, like maybe within the next two years, but yeah, I was later problems and now I'm later Arthur and I'm picking up

[00:23:25] the pieces that young Arthur was lazy about. Well, sometimes you don't even have a choice. I mean, you're starting out. And so, you know, if you're, if you're a young couple and you need housing, okay, well, that costs a lot, especially living here in Colorado. So that's an expense. You're not going to really be able to cut back on that unless you want to take in, you know, 30 roommates. You're going to kind of have to be limited in where you live. So that's a cost. You know, you need transportation. So there's a cost there.

[00:23:52] If you have automobile issues, you can't not saying you're going to go out and buy, you know, a $70,000 vehicle, but you need something. That's a cost. These all are things that you're having to take care of now, just in order to be able to meet your day-to-day needs that you're not thinking about student loans, the option to come along to defer them. You take advantage of that. Well, all while that's going on, the clock is still ticking. You're building interest.

[00:24:19] And if you don't pay on time, you're getting penalties and fees and stuff. And that's how a lot of these young adults get so in over their heads. Yeah. Many of them are paying more than their loan was even worth when they first took it out. That's pretty easy. You know, they pay two to three times what the loan they actually borrowed when they were going to school. And the other thing I always like to point out is these are 18-year-olds. Right.

[00:24:44] Their frontal lobe is not developed, which is logic, reasoning, planning. All of that has not developed. And then we're just giving them these loans like they're candy. Yeah. And they're just, they have no idea what they're getting into. They're looking at it like we said earlier. That's tomorrow's problem. That's next week, next month. We just want to do it now. Yeah. That's crazy when you kind of peel the layers back. Because you were saying, passion project, like you guys came out of college with debt. And so that's where like a lot of this thinking and creativity came from of how do we find

[00:25:13] different areas for our kids? That's the passion behind why you wrote this, right? That is, that was the passion. And then also though, I mean, they gained so much by doing college in high school. Right. They both took two college classes and after just taking two, they said, mom, I'm done. I don't want to do high school anymore. They just wanted college. Yeah. They were just like, you know what? You go two times a week. They give you a list of homework that you do and you do it and that's it. And then you're done.

[00:25:40] It wasn't, I have to be at the school from seven in the morning till four o'clock in the afternoon and all this homework and all this busy work. And dealing with this kid over here who doesn't pay attention. Like none of that. They just were like, I can just do this. And, and then the other thing that I will point out too, though, is that they were not geniuses, not valedictorians. One has a learning disability and has always needed extra support. They also participated in homecoming, prom, high school sports, clubs.

[00:26:09] They were able to have the high school experience. They just didn't have to do a lot of the nonsense that goes along with it. I wish I could do that all over then. I mean, knowing that information now, it's life changing. I know. It's life changing. And the classes that you take, those first two years that you would take at a community college, I mean, they're like English and math and history and they're not what you're passionate about. So why not just knock those out in high school and then start college ready to go with what you know you want to do? Yeah, I agree.

[00:26:37] We've had friends that they've had children that are getting ready to, you know, they're juniors, seniors in high school, and they're not sure if they want to go to college or not. And we've advised them. We're like, see if your school will allow you to do some sort of concurrent ed dual enrollment program. Let your student try out a college class, take a class that they, that they enjoy. Don't sign them up for something that they're not going to enjoy.

[00:27:02] But if they're interested in, you know, learning about art, let them take an art class at the college level and see if that's a good fit for them. Do they enjoy working under a syllabus? Do they like being directed by a professor versus a traditional high school teacher? And some students have done that. And then they've said, yeah, you know what? College isn't really for me, but at least they got the state to pay for it. They didn't pay for it themselves and they decided to go a different path.

[00:27:31] Yeah, my favorite story about that. One of my daughters was dating a guy who will remain homeless, but they're no longer together. But he was doing community college classes in high school and he actually graduated high school one credit short of an associate degree because he was like, I don't want to do this. Like, I don't want to get an associate degree. I want to be a carpenter. And I'm sure his parents were like, I want to kill you. Why couldn't you take that one last class?

[00:28:01] But I'm also like, who cares? He didn't pay for it. He doesn't. That's true. It's all free and he figured it out. I don't want to do this. That's a good point. Because I talked to a lot of people like, you know, what are you going to college for? Well, I don't know yet. I've heard that a lot. They don't, you know, they're, they're structured to, Hey, we're going to go to college, but we don't know what we're studying yet. So if you have the opportunity to, you know, try it before you buy it kind of thing. Yes, exactly. That will be my book. Try it before you buy it. Try it before you buy it. We're coming up with all the names.

[00:28:27] So like the curriculum that's taught in high school versus this congruent ed, right? This dual, what is it? Dual. Dual enrollment. Dual enrollment. They have to be vastly different, right? Because the courses that they're enrolled in your standard math, science, geography, whatever they're teaching on the high school, you know, curriculum versus these college classes have to be vastly different, right? So they are. Yeah. So, and again, I was a teacher for a long time and I really believe that teachers and administrators are doing the best they can. Sure.

[00:28:57] I think they are working with a very broken system. But basically what they do in most school districts is they're preparing kids for the standardized tests. So they're not really preparing them for college, even though they say they are. And so like my kids were not college ready. I had to help them a lot, which is what the book is about, how parents can help them get ready because the schools really, they don't. They, they're much more concerned about graduation rates.

[00:29:27] Right now, language learners are huge. Most standardized tests are the thorn in their side that they have to deal with every spring. So they just don't have the capacity. Because depending how the test results come back depends on like funding. Yeah. Yeah. So no pressure. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, yeah. Because that kind of changes the course of the, of the plan, right? If there were, we want to get these kids through testing. We're not really worried about where they're going. We just want to hit our numbers. Yeah. Like a, like a quota. We want to make sure they graduate. We don't want to have dropouts.

[00:29:57] Um, interesting. Yeah. I ended up getting a GED and then, uh, I, I really enjoyed going to my college classes. Um, I don't have a good reason for not finishing other than I was just working and making a living. Right. And trying to, I just kind of shifted, but it's, it's interesting how I'm hearing some similarities just on people's experiences that you've heard. Um, but I, sorry, Kevin, kind of cut your question short there. No, I've never just kind of spitballed. I feel like you had a good one. There's a lot, uh, a lot to unpack with it all. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:26] And I was like you, I hated high school. Like I just, I hated it. I graduated with a very low GPA. Um, I, I hated it. And I had a high school English teacher who was like, I think you might like college. And I was like, I don't think I can do it. And she was like, I think you can. And, and my first semester of college, I got a 4.0 and I graduated high school with like a two point something like I hated it. Yeah. So some kids it's just college is just a better fit for them.

[00:30:55] Well, and I feel like there's a misconception on what educated is. So in one of these audio books I was listening to, they were talking about Henry Ford and how like they wanted to derail him and make him seen like he was incompetent and incapable of running a large company. So they like brought him on a trial and they were asking him all these different questions that had nothing to do about actual, like the car business or anything.

[00:31:22] It was like, you know, how many British invaded in the revolution and how Ford, uh, proceeded to answer these questions was actually very intelligent. And he, in that little part that I was listening to, it really made me think about how there is a conception behind what educated means. And you can actually be a very smart intellectual person without a book education.

[00:31:49] And Henry Ford was a long time ago. Like, um, and they're still trying to put this, this like cloak over us to like, this is, you know, the path to college, the path to what most people experience and what you're talking about getting them out of. I just, I started firing off there. I started thinking. No, you're, you're, you're spot on because if you, if you look back on history, a lot

[00:32:13] of the education structure that we have today was based on the cold war back in the 1960s and seventies, right? We're at war, cold war with the Russians. We want to get our technology better than theirs. We want to have a man on the moon. We want to do all this. So a lot of the premise for what lawmakers and leaders were doing back then was we got to get kids into school. We got to get them to college. We got to get educated because we got to beat the Russians.

[00:32:40] We got to be, you know, the world power that we're supposed to be. And we've kept that same model, not understanding that some kids learn in different ways. You know, they're not, they're not going to take the traditional route that you and I went through or that our parents went through. They may fit better in a college environment. They may fit better in a virtual environment where they're doing education online. They may want to take advantage of a trade or something like that.

[00:33:08] So we've, we've tried to say college is the way you have to go. And as a result, people go, well, I can't afford it. Well, you're just going to have to take out loans. And then the company won't hire you if you don't have this degree. So it's, it's really coming at us from a lot of angles. Yeah. And so we need to get past that. There's only one way to be successful in life. There's only one way to get a job in life.

[00:33:33] You know, we need to, we need to allow kids to learn, Hey, I learned this way, or I prefer to take this course in, in this sort of setting rather than taking it in the traditional setting that mom and dad or grandma and grandpa took it in. Yeah. The world's changing. It really is. And so it's like, how do we, how do you fix it though? I mean, we just listed off a lot of issues there. It's, you almost have to control, delete and kind of start over, but it's, it's so ingrained in everything. What do you do?

[00:34:02] Parents have to be involved. I mean, they just really do. They have to, they can't trust. Like I said, I believe that teachers and administrators are doing the best they can, but parents can't just trust that that's giving them what their kids need. They have to really just kind of take it and take control of their kids' education, be very involved. I mean, I'm already going to share this with two of my friends who have kids after the show and they're young, like their kids are young and not even in high school yet.

[00:34:31] But I want to like, start sharing this information and at least talking about it and sharing this episode. I really feel like the conversations we have in this studio, all of them have a level of importance, but this one is striking a chord within like, within me that it feels like it's, people need to hear it. It has extra, like an extra importance to it. Like this, if people could do this, it's going to help a lot of lives become more sustainable

[00:34:59] and less cortisol levels. Yeah, you're a hundred percent right because you think about some of the most stressful times in a person's life is when you're first starting out, right? You may have grown up, mom and dad made all the decisions for you. If you were in a home, which, you know, kind of things were steered to you, you get into college and for the most part, colleges kind of steer you where they need you to go. You know, they, they help you with your schedule.

[00:35:32] And then you graduate and you get released into the real world and you don't really have a lot of time to get acclimated to what that's like. A lot of kids, 40 hours, working 40 hours a week is something brand new to them. They've never had to do that. So being able to, to hold down a nine to five, five days a week is something that they have to get adjusted to. And then if you have to lump in the cost of housing, the cost of food, the cost of transportation,

[00:36:02] medical expenses, anything like that. And then you throw on student loans. How do you get started when you're 22, 23 years old and you go, I don't know what to do here. Yeah. You know, and then that carries over. If you don't respond promptly, that carries over into your late twenties or early thirties. Then you start going, well, I don't think I can afford to have a kid. You know, I can start a family. I don't think I'm ever going to buy a house. I mean, a lot of the people that, you know, Arthur, you and I, we work together.

[00:36:28] We have a lot of colleagues that are in that, in that age group right now where they're going, I can't buy a house. I don't know if I want to get married. I don't know if I want to have kids. I can't think about retirement or investment or savings because I got all these other financial responsibilities are just weighing down on me. Well, yeah. And the interest is just racking up. Like I was acting like an ostrich for a long time with all this and not until recently,

[00:36:56] like a week and a half ago, because I'm married now. Like I need to be a better man. I need to be a better provider and I need to be more open as well. And transparent so I can like nourish this honest, open relationship. And so I hasn't looked at how much interest I pay on my credit cards. I've never looked. And so I finally looked like a week and a half ago. It's alarming. And it was like 300 bucks a month. I was paying an interest.

[00:37:21] And mind you, I would spend like four or $600 a month on my credit cards, like paying them down. But then I looked at that and I'm like, I'm only paying half of what actually needs to be paid. The other is just getting chewed up by interest. And so like, I just in the last week and a half, no joke, like went and got a different card that I could get to 0%. And I'm trying to be smarter with my money. And it's, it's, it's a shame that when we're so young and susceptible to these loans and

[00:37:47] all this, this societal norms, we don't fully understand it. And we don't get the significance and the importance of paying attention to everything. So then it's all easier. It's, it's hard to pay attention and get all your ducks in a row, but it certainly makes the rest of life easier. But a lot of people don't want to try to get all the ducks in a row and then they end up dealing with it the hard way. Yeah. And the other thing, so I was talking to the number one student loan advocate in the country. His name is Alan Cullen.

[00:38:17] He has like a million followers. He's amazing. I was talking to him early, earlier this week. And he was just telling me, he was like, Shelly, my job is so hard because I can't get these people with these loans to speak out because there's so much shame. And so they don't talk about it and they hide it and they keep it secret. And so people don't realize like how massive the problem is. Cause like you said, you didn't want to look at the interest. For years. Yeah. That's been like over five years. I never looked at it in five years.

[00:38:47] Out of sight, out of mind, you know? I don't want to see it. And you're not the only one. Yeah. And now that I see it, I'm like, I'm so obsessed with knocking this out now. Like it's, it's like almost only on my brain, like exclusively. Well, and props to you for taking that mindset because a lot of people would see that and they would just give up. You know, it's the, it's the fight or flight mentality. Okay. In your case, I did see it. I have a problem. I'm going to fight it. But a lot of people are like, I'm just going to run from it and I'm not going to address the issue. That's what I'm saying. What does that do?

[00:39:17] You just put you further and further behind. Yeah. And so then you're the, and then you are given up things like, oh, I'm not going to have a family. I'm not going to get a house. No vacations. I'm not going to do vacations. I'm not going to be able to enjoy life. And sadly, there are some people that they take their own lives even because they get to that point. Oh, yeah. That's, yeah. You know? So if you can address it early, like we're trying to do, my wife is trying to do. Yes. And get that message out there when kids are, you know, in their teens, they have an action

[00:39:45] plan that they can take so that they don't start out at 22, 23, 24 behind the eight ball. It's brilliant. No, it really is. So kind of bringing it back personal. So your daughter, she graduated with what now? So our oldest daughter graduated just last year with a degree in communications and marketing. Okay. And the job market is just, it's just tough right now. Yeah. And so she's had a really hard time finding a full-time job. She does several part-time jobs, but, and she struggled a lot with just young adult life,

[00:40:14] just settling into that after being at college and having a great experience. So I'm so thankful that she doesn't have loans too, because I don't know, I, we would be paying for them because she couldn't, there's no way she could. Yeah. And that's the big difference, right? She can take her time now, find a career that makes sense and not be paying all this, this debt. Right. In the meantime. Yeah. And that's what I was so happy too. When she graduated, I was like, you know what? She can do an internship if she wants.

[00:40:43] She can take a low paying job just to learn. She could travel because she doesn't have any of that. She was just free. Yeah. Which we weren't. Yeah. We pretty much, after we graduated, we went straight into the workforce. Yeah. Like most, right? Like most people do. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, I can maybe take a couple months after graduation, but I got to get a job. I got to start paying bills. I got to find a place to live. You know, they, you don't get a chance to actually have that freedom.

[00:41:12] If you have the weight of student debt hanging over you. It's true. Very true. I mean, I mean, this is something that most people are dealing with is paying off student loans. It's like almost like people have student loans before they even have credit card debt. Is that, is that like close? And that's the other thing too, is that those credit card companies set up in like college campuses.

[00:41:39] And so these kids are taking out all these loans and then the credit card companies are like, and also get a credit card. Like it's just, they're just destroying our young adults. We get, we get credit card applications sent to the house for our daughters. And I just toss it. Like it's gone. Yeah. That's, it's concerning though, that they pray on, on the young, if we were talking about 18, they're not even developed yet. And they're like, Oh, no interest for a year. That'll be great. Let me just rack up all this debt on there.

[00:42:07] All of a sudden they're at the local pub or they're taking a crazy trip to Europe and running around. Yeah. Yeah. They pray on our kids and then they pray on the poor, which is horrible. So grandma, all I want is for my grandson to go to college because no one in the family ever did. So I'm going to take out all these loans as grandma and put him through college. And then grandma takes out all these loans and she can't pay for them.

[00:42:34] And so then they start taking for social security, her disability. It's horrible. It's just. Yeah. And then the, the good old classic. Yeah. I went to college. I got my degree. Oh, sweet. So you're working in that field. Yeah. Right. Do you see a lot of that? We all know what the answer normally is to that. Yeah. Well, it's crazy. Student debt is the only debt you can't discharge in bankruptcy court. But it stays with you through bankruptcy. You can't, you can't even. Yeah. Like your brother. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:03] So it's the, it's the only debt that is not able to be discharged in bankruptcy court. It has no consumer protections at all. So like you can't refinance it. You can't choose your lenders. I mean, like any other loan you can choose to take your lenders, you can refinance. Any other loan, they can't call you and scream at you and humiliate you and call your boss and get you fired. Student loans, they can and they do. Yeah. They can garnish wages. They can take away, you know, benefits and things like that for student loan debt.

[00:43:33] Wow. So if you default, just stop paying. They're, they're tied with the IRS and they start garnishing wages. Yeah. They can come after you. That's concerning. You know, especially in this economy where a lot of people are having a hard time making it. You know, like I'll student loan. I'll worry about that later. I got to eat. Next thing you know. Yeah. Pulling your wages. That's concerning. Was it that in Star Wars? Is it episode four? It's a trap. It really is. It really is because, you know, you, you go in again, you're young.

[00:44:00] You, you, you've been told you have to get a degree. Yeah. Maybe mom and dad have been pushing you to go to college. And so you, you go and, and maybe it's even a situation where you go to a college you can't afford. That's the other thing too, that, that Shelly addresses in her book is you need to pick a school that you can afford. And I know people want to say, I want to go to this prestigious university because my parents went there or it's got, yeah, it's got a, you know, great reputation within the, but,

[00:44:28] but you need to know what your limits are and what you can afford because you might pay for a school out of state and you're going to pay for that for the rest of your life. When you can get just as good of a degree going in state or even going to a community college, depending on what it is that you want to learn. I've been in situations where I've had to hire people at work and yes, the requirement is you need to have a degree, but we don't look at what university you got it from. That's going to be my next question.

[00:44:56] If you got it, if you got your degree from Metro state versus CU, we don't care. We just want to see you have the degree. Now, if you're going to get a master's or a specialization, then you might want to look a little bit closer at what university you're pro program you're going through because some of those do carry a little more weight with an employer, but most employers, if they want you to have a degree, they just want you to have a degree. And so don't sweat.

[00:45:22] I need to go out of state to this prestigious university because no, you don't have to. Be smart. Go where you can afford. Take out as minimal loans if you have to as possible and get yourself in a position where when you're young in life, you're not behind and having to play catch up the rest of your life. AKA finishing college in high school. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.

[00:45:48] And the other thing, my other mission is to just remove the stigma around community colleges. Okay. They are, I mean, there's just this idea that they lack value, that you're worthless if you go to them. Both of my daughters, their favorite teacher ever of all time were community college teachers. One was a tatted up chiropractor who taught anatomy and like they just adored him. Yeah. I mean, he was amazing.

[00:46:14] And she learned like she could tell you everything about the human body now because he was phenomenal. The other one was a writing teacher and right in the middle of COVID when it was horrible and they couldn't go anywhere, he turned this virtual class into just this group of college kids who just supported each other. Okay. When she ended that class, she cried because she was like, mom, I looked forward to that class more than anything because here I am locked in my house. I can't go anywhere. No one wants to hang out.

[00:46:43] But she was like, I had this class and this teacher who just created this really cool community right in the middle of COVID. And I mean, that was their experience with community college like all around. It's just people, just really cool people who are like working in the field, usually really humble, not super academic, but just people who just want to help kids and teach them. I miss going to community college. I went to Arapahoe Community College for a bit. Yeah.

[00:47:11] And like part of me, I would love just to be able to just pay for class and just go take it as like a hobby because one, it's good to stay educated. Two, you can get around like-minded people, maybe make some new friends and cherish some new friendships in life. There's so many benefits to getting an education. And that's just like me as an adult.

[00:47:37] Like I could see that not somebody who is still in high school and able to check it out at essentially no charge. Like there's, there's so many layers to this conversation. But specifically like the mission that you have right now and the information that you want to share. And I'm actually getting beyond this podcast and just recording the podcast. I'm going to be sharing this personally with a lot of people. It's important. Yeah. We need to change the world. It has to change. We're destroying our kids.

[00:48:06] And this is definitely a good way to do it. And Eric, you kind of answered my question about you, you just look at the degree. It doesn't matter specifically to your industry where you got the degree. We're just looking at that. You, you obtain that, whether it is a community college or, you know, local, not, not an Ivy league, you know, kind of thing. Cause a lot of people do get pushed in. Oh, my dad went to Harvard or we want to get you to go there. And then the kids end up there and like, I don't, I don't want to be here. Right. So yeah, a lot of employers, they just, they want to see that you can complete a task and

[00:48:34] completing that task is getting your degree. And so they just want to see that you're a person that can follow through and that you have the necessary educational requirements to fit whatever job you're applying for. They rarely look at what university it's from. Wow. That's good info. That is. And do they actually check if you have a legit degree? Like, or can I just be like, Hey, really? I mean, you hear about those stories every once in a while where somebody has faked their

[00:49:02] credentials, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, when I was hiring, I didn't look too deeply into, Oh, did they really go to this university? I wasn't calling and asking for transcripts. You're like asking for these referrals and stuff. Yeah, I know. I just, I looked and did you have the degree? Check. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Has anyone seen these things? And I'm kind of just like, I've been watching some TikTok stuff and it's, it is addictive and we all need to be careful on these dude scrolls. I don't do the TikTok.

[00:49:30] However, and you can be somebody I can look up to. Actually you have been, and you are somebody I look up to. If you are. Same. Yes. But there was a, it's like these TikToks of these guys that they're, Oh, the job market's tough. And I usually try to unlike these when I see them. Cause I don't want my algorithm filled with like, Oh, it's tough to find jobs. That's negative energy. Let's get that out of here. But they're like posting stuff where they are getting interviewed by AI. It's like an AI that's interviewing them and like going through the prompts.

[00:49:58] I haven't personally seen that in real life. It just might be satire, but like how discouraging. For the job market you mean? Yeah. Like you're applying for this job, you get the interview, you hop on the call and then it's an AI bot. So it's over the phone. It's like an AI bot interviewing you. That's interesting. I don't know if that's actually happening or not. I could see that happening. I mean, we've always heard that you apply and you submit your resume and that usually is screened by an AI bot before it gets handed over to a human.

[00:50:24] And so people are always saying, Oh, you got to trick the algorithm by putting in keywords within your resume or you've got to use the job posting and somehow hide it within your application. So that way you can get through the gatekeeper. Yeah. Like you just changed the font color. Yeah. But I've never heard the actual being interviewed by. Well, and the AI that was doing the interview absolutely bombed because it would get stuck on repeating the same sentence over and over again.

[00:50:53] And they're just sitting there like, uh, this is a waste of my time. Yeah. I've had times where I've been using AI and I'll ask it a question and it'll come back and it's wrong, like totally wrong. And I'll say, um, I'm sorry, that's wrong. And it's like, Oh yeah, you're right. Yeah. Okay. So you're just putting out wrong information. Some, some of what they trained chat GPT on is just that it needs to just make stuff up. If it doesn't know, it just gives an answer. It won't ever say, I don't know.

[00:51:22] And so I've heard stories that chat GPT, if it doesn't know the answer, it'll give it best guess. Now there are other AI applications that claim that they are more sourced based, but everybody knows chat GPT and that's probably the most commonly used. There are some other applications that will actually give you sources, but one of the things if you're ever, you know, if you're just researching something, whether it's for your own personal use or for your work and you're using chat GPT, always ask it.

[00:51:50] If you're not sure what's your source on this, because that will, that will at least identify to you, whether it was making up something or it was really pulling from a reliable source. That's good info for sure. Cause everyone just takes it at face value now. You know, you speak into your phone. What's this? Tell me about that. Here you go. Okay. That must be true. True. Because AI scanned it. Yeah. Right. But if it doesn't know the answer and it's just essentially. I've heard those stories. If it doesn't know the answer, it won't say, I don't know.

[00:52:17] It'll make its best guess, which in many cases is completely wrong, but somebody is basing their decision on that best guess and it could be completely false. And yeah. One of our good friends, he likes to curate answers through AI to win arguments. Yeah. And it's been, it's been identified Clint Gershenson. Yeah. Yeah. He's been identified. We can say his name. We can tell. Yeah. We can tell when he's curating. Yeah.

[00:52:44] Because the more you give it, you can kind of edge it in a direction, right? Yeah. Some more like that. And then it gives you another rendition. Anytime I play around in there, I'm just like, this is starting to freak me out and we're getting closer and closer to the Terminator. Yeah. People have had romantic relations. This is way off topic. I don't know if we need to get into this, but they like are cheating on their man with their AI or vice versa. And it's. Or even people just use it for friendship. Right. It doesn't have to be anything romantic. I've heard stories of people that. It's like they're.

[00:53:14] They're. Yeah. They're introverts. They don't like going out. And so a Saturday night for them is talking to chat GPT. So strange. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. I don't know what that's going to do long-term, but. No. Can't be good. So, so it like, same with like when you get the dopamine from anything social media that isn't physically tangibly in front of you. AI is doing that. It triggers like the same level of dopamine, but it doesn't like fully.

[00:53:41] I don't know how to say it scientifically, but we get addicted to it because it does provide some dopamine. But like the type is different. Like the four of us sitting here sharing this information and conversation, we have all received dopamine between this conversation from each other. And it is much more impactful than anything virtual. Even when we record virtually over Zoom. Yeah. Sounds good. It's just not, it's not the same. It's still a great conversation.

[00:54:07] It's still an amazing guest, you know, still discussion combustion, but having people in front of you. The energy. Yeah. It's just different. And humans, we're creatures that are like ants. Like we are societal creatures. We are better if we are actually with humans. Better together. Yeah. Yep. And that's just, this is how we are. Um, so all that stuff is, is interesting to consider.

[00:54:31] And, and also just all the layers of education, the different types of misconceptions, um, how big of a trap it all is and how there's actually a beacon of light with the information that you gave, because there is a path that is different than crippling debt. And I didn't even know it existed. Right. I really didn't until we had this conversation. Yeah. There.

[00:54:57] And also like, I mean, I meet parents too, who are like, you know what, look, we have college funds saved up. Grandma left them or whatever. But they're like, but I kind of just like the idea of my kids doing something different than just the traditional high school. I mean, how cool to be able to just graduate college in high school. So it is for everyone. But I mean, the debt piece is massive for sure. And so do you have a tentative release date?

[00:55:25] Do they call it a release date for publishing a book, a published date? Yeah. So it's going to come out by the end of the year. We're kind of working it. And like I said, I'm in the middle of editing book design, all of that. But we're hoping by the end of the year, January, probably at the latest. So but I have lots of information on my website too. So already that people can access for free. Well, we will definitely drive people to your website and your Instagram. We got both of those already.

[00:55:55] So we'll leave those in the links below. Yep. But I'm going to share this information with my friends as well who have children. This is an important one. This is going to help our friend group big time for sure. Change the world. We need to change the world. Yes. Yep. Taking action starts here. Thanks for coming down and sharing some stories with us. It was so much. It's so fun. Yeah. I know we just kind of scratched the surface and there's always more to do. Maybe we get you back on when the book drops. I would love that. Absolutely. Kind of help push a little bit more people your way. I would love that. Thank you.

[00:56:25] Yeah, of course. Yeah, I'm totally down for that. We'll put it on the schedule. Okay. Eric. Well, once we have the date, we'll put it on. Right. I'll let you know. We can leave the schedule open for you. Save the date. I'll save the date. Thank you. Yeah, Eric. Great having you in again too, man. Thank you much. Yeah, I was a surprise. I wasn't expecting to have you on the show tonight. So that worked out great. Always enjoy talking with you guys. You guys do a good job and keep the conversation light and fun. And, you know, it just flows. So I'm always happy to sit in. Let's go. We're going to do it again. Well, we have both of their signatures on our release form.

[00:56:54] So they're officially part of the discussion. That's right. Great. We want to see both you succeed. Obviously, super excited about the book. What like a bombshell of information. And I understand it now too. So like, because I had no idea how you were doing this before we recorded and very enlightening. So what an honor. Is there any advice? I was just going to ask that, but I think that was the whole episode was that. Yeah, but maybe it's something different. Yeah. Here you ask. Yeah.

[00:57:22] So, you know, the classic Eric, you remember the question. Yep. If we could offer one piece of advice or if you could offer one piece of advice, everyone hears this tomorrow, Thursday, June 5th, 2025, they'll be better off from hearing it. What would that piece of advice be? Don't take out student loans. I mean, just don't. They will destroy you. Yeah. That's fantastic. That's life-changing information. That is. That is life-changing information. Thank you, everybody, for checking out Discussion Combustion. What an epic episode.

[00:57:51] You know, we're going to be on Happy Friday, bringing in the weekend right tomorrow. So everybody, please be good to yourselves. You deserve it.