Sasha Zvodinsky | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #285

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe. All right, all right. All right, all right, all right. Episode 285, Discussion Combustion. We got Sasha joining us. This is gonna be a good one.

[00:00:25] Of course, how can it be a bad one? That'd be a bad business. We need to have good episodes of Black Mask, pop, pop, pop! Like The Fifth Element. Have you guys seen The Fifth Element of Chris Tucker? Yeah. That's a classic. One of those, yeah, movies that kids and I quote all the time. You want some more? So like anything works. Yeah, so I actually wanted to get to know you guys better. I'm sure your listeners know you, but

[00:00:54] Ashley only mentioned just a little bit about you. So tell us, tell us about yourself. And us, I don't mean the king, me, you know, us, the audience. Well, well, Sasha, it's great to have another survivor of the darkness join the episode. I myself have overcome opiates. I'm celebrating four years this month off of opiates.

[00:01:19] Yeah. So that's a personal achievement that I have that I'm super excited about. But with this guy sitting to my right, I've known him for 16 years, something like that. I've known Kevin for like 16 years. Long time. And we've been doing podcasting for six. So best friends, we get to know people. I don't know. It's a brief intro. And Kevin has, you got some milestones too recently.

[00:01:46] Yeah. Yeah. So I overcame a serious alcohol addiction. So that's, that was my big project. 2024. Get dialed in here to the pie. Do multiple shows. Arthur and I do two shows a week on, on this YouTube channel. I do a NASCAR podcast as well. I love talking to people. I love hearing people's stories. And just bringing back the lost art of getting to know people and hearing what people have to say. I'm so forced to be able to do this.

[00:02:10] Right. Awesome. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Spoken, spoken word, right? We're losing it more and more to machines and screens. But hey, good, good, good, good. I definitely browse through some of your podcasts and Instagram. You've done a body of work, guys. Good job. I mean, it's really an honor to be here.

[00:02:33] Because, yeah. And I listened to the whole, you know, like nowadays, 45 minutes of time is a lot to listen to someone not famous. You know what I mean? But I did go through the whole hour you guys had with Ashley. And it was a really good engaging dialogue. So I appreciate you guys calling me up and just having good conversations. So dark, dark times, huh?

[00:02:56] Yeah. So on a scale of zero to 10, the darkness, 10 beast means most dark. How dark were yours? I mean, I'm going to say I'll go eight on mine. I was not homeless. So I always had a roof above my head. I always had friends that I could call and help hold me accountable. So I wouldn't say I hit a 10. No, I don't think I did either. But eight was pretty low for me. That was pretty dark.

[00:03:25] That's dark. Yeah, that's dark. That's dark. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know, it's interesting how my fate, my life has dragged me through certain spots, right? Or showed me an enlightenment. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't call it a 10 compared to like when you come to the recovery rooms, you know, you start hearing other people's stories. And I heard stories that made my hair stand back in the back of my head from those things.

[00:03:51] So, but it was funny, like my wife and I, we were, we were getting sober together 20 years ago. And we would go to the mostly like white, you know, audience, so to speak. And she would tell her story, like how she was using crack, pregnant and all that stuff. And all these white women were like, oh, you know, and then we'd go to the black meeting, you know, and hear black people just going through 10 times worse stuff that was happening to them.

[00:04:18] So our story is just like light, light, you know, nothing. So everything is in comparison, right? It was pretty dark though for both of us, you know, coming from another country from the former Soviet Union, looking for the American dream, you know, 29 years ago and five days, as a matter of fact, you know, or six days. And 29 years ago, we were like, yeah, we need to get, you know, things for ourselves, cars and jobs and all that American dream, right?

[00:04:48] And then just ending up homeless on the streets with one bag of possessions, going to a rehab, cutting, you know, with all the, you know, bridges burned, so to speak. But I was kind of introduced to all the dark parts of it. Like I had a tour to a crack house, right? When, if you could call it that. So when we met, we used to go to like detox centers, to detox. And in those detox centers, you would find some interesting characters, right?

[00:05:18] So my wife met this guy, let's call him John. And John had his check on the first of the months, like Chris Rock is saying, is singing. And he said, okay, when I get a check, you know, we're going to meet, meet, hook up, I'll hook you up, guys. So we went to the west side of Chicago and he didn't know many people there. By then we already were well versed into finding the spots. Rocks, blow, spark, go around the block. I was going to call a book this, this way. Okay.

[00:05:46] With this title, you know. So I took him there, we showed him the spots and this young lady also figured out that he had his check money. So she's like, come on, go with me, go with me. So we go to this dark basement and there's this crack house, you know, and they do their things in the crack house for money and stuff like this. So the biggest thing that I remember is like, I finally say, Terry, they're going to burn you for your money. Come on, give me the money. I'll burn you. You know, I'll get you the drugs, you know.

[00:06:14] And he gives me the $100, right? And it's a dark basement in the west side of Chicago. I'm holding this $100 in the light for like two seconds. And then out of the dark, three or four faces show up. Hey, man, give me the money. I'm going to get you some because they're going to burn you, you know. So they're like, they're like these vampires coming out because everybody wants to get high and get their sick off, so to speak.

[00:06:39] Like nobody was getting high. There were just people that are getting their sick off. And it was only one experience, you know what I mean? So I didn't live on the streets. I lived on the streets for two weeks. I lived in the shelter, slept on those gray colored sheets and, you know, being withdrawing and stuff like this. Yeah. So I got a taste of it, you know. Detoxes, hospitals, a little trip to 26th and California, Hotel California, some of our guys call it.

[00:07:06] But welcome to the Hotel California, right? So I checked this out. It was fun. You know, somebody brought in some weed somehow through all the security checks. So the guards weren't happy about it. They made us all stand up and raised our arms like this and stand like this for 10 minutes. And you don't know your arm's so heavy until you like do it for a while. Yeah, I know. When I got in trouble as a kid, my mom would make me hold cans. If I got in trouble, I would hold soup cans out. And that was torture.

[00:07:36] So, you know, like everything that's, you know, takes time, right? Becomes heavier. So it was tough and sleeping on the cement floor wasn't fun either, you know. So all these things I was introduced to that joblessness, standing in line for, you know, shelters and all that stuff. Yeah. You know, that's all right. You know, so hold on one second. Okay. This is updates. Okay. We're going to cancel my updates on this computer. All right. Anyway, I thought you were trying to check out the Topo.

[00:08:06] So you're like, what are you guys drinking over there? I was like, this is Topo. It's delicious. A little zesty, non-alcoholic beverage. There we go. Amen to that. So anyway. So how long ago was this? Like this was like 20 years ago, you're saying? 20 years ago. Yeah. So the worst years, you know, it was again, like, you know, some people stay in the addiction for long, many years. Right. My wife and I, we were doing everything together. So we had sort of like a quick course. Right.

[00:08:36] And so in about a year and a half, we got so fast down. So we were introduced when the Soviet Union collapsed, all the drugs started moving in, you know. So I finally found out what cannabis was when I was 17. And I loved it because alcohol wasn't so easy on my body. So I couldn't drink much. But weed, hey, it was perfect, you know, especially with alcohol.

[00:08:59] You know, so then when we got arrested, when the police finally figured out that there's something wrong with the youth and they're not acting drunk, but they're acting weird. So they created the drug enforcement force. And in my city, we got a big bust one day. So they busted like 20 or 30 people and they didn't have a place for us. So they put us in a psych ward in the hospital and the locked ward. And then the cops came and started, you know, doing interrogations and all that stuff. And this was all in Russia?

[00:09:27] That was in Belarus. Yeah, like one of the republics of the Soviet Union. So that's, you know, that's where I met people who showed me like, you know, said, hey, when you come out, I'll hook you up with some other substances, you know. So that's how it progressed. I met people who were cooking stuff at home. There was no drug dealers on the corners and stuff like this. So we were introduced to it when we were like 20, 21, 22. And when we left, we were 23 and came to the United States.

[00:09:55] And then we stopped because my wife had OD'd on amphetamines and almost kind of lost her sanity. So for her sake, I stopped. And in the States, we were just like for six, seven years, we were just coasting, so to speak. I wasn't using any heavy substances, maybe a little weed and alcohol here and there. But then when I didn't become a rock star, you know, I wanted to come here, of course, watching Hollywood movies, thinking like, you know, everybody's here going to become a rock star.

[00:10:22] You know, I played pretty decent music. My music is interesting. You can check us out too. You know, but again, you got to work for it. What's the name of the music? Well, the name of the band, we were called Multivitamins because we played all kinds of styles and mixed them together. If you ever heard Mike Patton's solo project, Mr. Bungle in 90s was very popular.

[00:10:46] They actually, you know, got back together. So it turned out to be that our music was very similar to that. And then we got to know them. So we were playing cool music, right? And the clubs and everything. But nobody was buying us, so to speak. So I started smoking more and more weed. And then weed stopped working. So I decided to see, you know, what's Pulp Fiction like in reality, you know? Another great movie. Yeah, everybody was like, did you see Pulp Fiction, you know, back home?

[00:11:16] Oh, they show syringe, like the whole screen. And you see syringe. Oh, you know, it's so cool for kids, you know, when we were kids. So yeah, we found the people, you know, Russian speaking people who kind of introduced us to the west side of Chicago, showed us what to say, where to go. And that's where this little excursion to going down to the bottom started for us. And probably within two years, we destroyed everything we had built in seven years prior. You know, especially with the introduction. It goes quick.

[00:11:45] Yeah, it goes quick, especially when I found the corner. You could destroy seven years in one year, and then it takes like five, seven years to build it all back. It goes quick. A hundred percent, yeah. I was kind of grateful, you know, on this corner, the guys were doing a promotion, buy, blow, get rock free, okay? Which means, you know, if you buy heroin, you get crack for free. And of course, you know, I wanted the deal.

[00:12:14] And I remember back in Russia, somebody told me when I was 16, they said, if you smoke crack, you get addicted from one time. And my ego goes, not me, you know? Yeah, well, it turned out to be me, you know? And when the deal was over, that's where the, you know, going down was really fast, you know? Because now I had to buy it, you know? I couldn't stop it. And there was many, many attempts.

[00:12:39] We went to psych wards, I don't know, multiple times, you know, longer detox centers and everything. Now, really quick question with that. Are you self-admitting yourself into the psych wards? Like, is this something that you were doing on your own accord? Yeah, yeah. Were you getting like... Interestingly enough, yeah. That was like, okay, so it wasn't like a sentence or something you got in trouble and like the state is mandating it. Exactly. Interestingly enough, my job now is addiction counselor.

[00:13:08] So I see in my groups and individual sessions, a lot of people who are mandated. So not many of them are really ready to do it. We kind of knew we were, you know, we were dealing with addiction. We didn't know addiction was a disease and alcoholism was a disease. So we thought we could use our willpower and stop it if we go to a hospital, right? And every time by the end of the detox, I felt this renewed strength and I thought I was going to manage it this time.

[00:13:35] And constantly, like every time I'll just do one more and it would start over again, you know? So, yeah. The last time, yeah, I got arrested and they did want me to go to the treatment. But it wasn't like, yeah, if you don't go, you're going to go to jail. It wasn't like this, but it could be an administrative fine or something. I don't know. But yeah, I definitely didn't want to live on the streets. You know, we were evicted from two apartments by then already. You know, my wife was pregnant with the third son.

[00:14:04] So living in a tent with a pregnant wife was not exactly the American dream I was imagining, you know? And I actually drove her on the bike. I put a little pillow on the frame. So she sat in the middle in front of me. And that's how we went to the hospital to deliver our last baby, you know, with a big bag of clothes, you know? So it was like a big bag we came into America with, with all the possessions. So, yeah, it was pretty low, you know?

[00:14:33] I was stealing like snicker bars from gas stations to give her some nutrition, you know, stuff like this. But the madness, madness of the disease that the values I was lowering, you know, slowly was kind of going with that downward motion. So it was like, oh, at least I'm not as bad as this guy. At least I'm not as bad as this guy. So it was just kind of going down and then, you know, I could always find an excuse.

[00:14:58] But when the last friend who was always kind of sheltering me, right, when my wife already went for treatment, when they found blood in my baby's blood, they found drugs. So they mandated her for treatment. They said, you could do whatever you want, Mr. Sasha, you know? But my friend closed the door in front of me. My last friend, I'm like, hmm, there must be something wrong, you know? So I was just like, I got to do something. I don't want to live in shelters, you know? I came to the United States to prosper.

[00:15:28] And I obviously, with all my Russian education, I cannot figure out how to live, you know? So I'm like, okay, let me see what those Americans have, you know? Because I guess, you know, people were making fun of Americans when I was growing up because you guys were too spoiled, so to speak, right? Everybody in the rest of the world has to struggle to live, you know? Here you got all these services that, you know, you have for yourself to live good lives, you know? So I thought, what can Americans tell me at that time, right?

[00:15:58] And I didn't realize that Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous, all these fellowships were started here, you know? And that day actually saved our lives, you know? So it was really good, you know, how the series of circumstances, right, led me to this last house on the block, you know? And I went to rehab eventually, you know, also like my wife. And they started telling us about recovery, and I still didn't want to listen.

[00:16:26] But when a guy like you, right, comes in who has gone before you the same, right, path and found a way, and you know he's not lying, you know he's not a doctor who's trying to make money or whatever, evangelist or preacher. The guy just like you says, I don't need your money, I just want to tell you my story. And when I heard his story, and another guy's story, and another guy's story, and all they said the same thing.

[00:16:50] I did this way, live like this way, it wasn't working, then I found this 12-step program, and here's what my life is like now. I'm like, hmm, he's obviously, you know, you know, saying the truth, telling the truth, and I want what he has, you know? So I did have trust from these guys, and when the time for me came to go to those meetings, you know, I trusted that this program would work for me.

[00:17:15] And the biggest thing, and I want the world to know it, is this one phrase in one of the 12 steps. It says, God as I understand him, right? That's a big thing. Do you know about the Soviet Union? What was our main religion? Christianity? Good guess. Catholic, it was Catholic. It was Catholicism? In the Soviet Union. Remember, there was a communist, right? What did communists believe? Did you guys remember?

[00:17:45] No, it's okay. It's not a pop quiz. I don't know the faith. No, I don't. That's fine. There was no faith. Atheism was the faith. We believed there was no God. Oh, so there you go. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's 180 degrees flip, you know, for most people who like believed, hey, human is the pinnacle of the creation, you know, whatever. And suddenly I'm like, hey, my human power is not working. No matter how hard I try to not use drugs, drugs keep using me, you know.

[00:18:12] And then I come and these people say, you don't have to believe in Jesus Christ. You don't have to believe in Muhammad or the prophet or whatever, Allah or any other, you know, deities that are traditional religion, right? You could just believe in God as you understand him. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. Which means I can't actually point fingers no more. Oh, look at those Christians, right? They are hypocrites. You know, they do. They say one thing, do another thing.

[00:18:39] Now the responsibility was turned back at me, right? You see, so that's an interesting thing. And I could create any kind of God I wanted to, provided this God was loving and caring and was going to help me. And that changed my life. And that's why, like, basically when I do my counseling, I do offer a lot of different tools to people that are available in psychology and drug addiction recovery. But the main tool, really, if you're a real alcoholic or an addict, is surrender, right?

[00:19:09] When you really admit that, like, look how many times you tried, right? Did it work for you? How is it working for you? Obviously not. So if I'm honest with myself and I surrender, I win. That's a paradox of the program, right? You surrender to win, you know. The program by giving it away. These two paradoxes are working pretty well in my life and the life of many friends I have now in 12-step fellowships, right? So that's a beautiful thing.

[00:19:35] And I suggest anyone to try to find this direct connection to something bigger than you, right? And some people say God is within. Some people say God is goddess, right? Some people say there's universal forces. Some people say nirvana. It doesn't matter. There is a book called How God Changes Your Brain. It's like a scientific study of what happens to people who practice various sorts of religious practices, right?

[00:20:01] And they see, we find, they found that there is a spot in the brain that actually gets activated in the process of meditation or a prayer that disconnects the frontal lobe that is busy with all these thoughts, you know, confusing thoughts and beliefs that we have in our lives from childhood, right? When you disconnect it, you start feeling oneness with something bigger and it creates the sense of awe. And then you say, oh, very good. And that's exactly what happened to me in rehab.

[00:20:29] I trusted you guys, right? The guys who are ahead of me, sober already. And they said, just surrender. Ask for help, you know. And Russians have this big, all Russian speaking people from the Soviet Union have this big motto. Russians don't surrender. You see, it's like in my blood, it's in my genes and I couldn't surrender for so long. But the moment I said that, I was at five o'clock in the morning. I remember it like it was yesterday. I said something like lying down in this room.

[00:21:01] I felt high, right? I didn't pay no dealers, no money. But I felt the presence of some amazing something in me. Like it was the heat wave going through me over and over. I started crying. I felt like goosebumps and everything. And I'm like, hmm, as an addict, I'm like, that seems like a good deal. I don't have to pay anybody. You know what I mean? And I'm getting the same high. And I'm like, maybe those people are right. Let me see what those 12 steps have in them, right?

[00:21:30] And I was so afraid to lose it because waking up in the morning, you guys remember the feeling, right? You wake up in the morning, there is no hope. There's only misery and pain, you know? And like, I'll do anything not to experience this anymore. They tell me, you know, eat dirt, I'll eat dirt, you know? But actually nobody asked me for that. They just say, keep coming back. Go to 90 meetings in 90 days, you know? Something like this, very simple. Get yourself a guy who already went through the steps. Call him a sponsor.

[00:21:59] Call him every day. Whatever. Simplest stuff. And they say that the 12-step program is for complicated people. That bozo will get it and Einstein will miss it. You know? All these little cliches that, again, cool addicts, you know, don't want to listen to when we are thinking we're in control, right? Suddenly, it all started working. You know, just surrender was awesome, you know? So, for me, it was definitely the beauty happening. Like, miracles were happening literally every day. I couldn't believe it.

[00:22:29] Literally. Like, everybody talks about DCFS. Do you know guys about DCFS? Have you heard of that abbreviation? DCFS. Department of Children and Family Services. S. Department of Children and Family Services. So, if you talk to an addict or a mother whose child was taken by DCFS to the state custody, they'd be like, these mothers, blah, blah, blah, blah. They're always kind of yelling at them. They're so bad. They're taking our children.

[00:22:58] DCFS are just people who are trying to help. You know? In our case, with my wife and me, they actually said, go to treatment and we'll not take your baby. You know? We'll just check on you once in a while. And guess what? DCFS actually gave us the deposit for our new apartment when we got out of treatment. They paid for our first month's rent. They bought us a refrigerator. They bought us the stove because there was not one available in the apartment I found. They led us. They found us diapers and everything.

[00:23:27] It was really helpful. Those miracles were happening day and night. One day, somebody called me. Hey, you need a free car? I'm like, what's the catch? Excuse me? Yeah. I'm like, what's the catch? You know what I mean? And I needed to take my baby son, the third born, right? The third youngest son. To the doctor quite often, right? And it was cold. So I'm like, what do I need to do? It's like nothing. Just pay the insurance. The person who has the car, you know, is moving to New York. She doesn't want to have a car there. You know, so I had a free car, you know.

[00:23:56] Somebody gave me a place heater. Somebody gave me air conditioners. And all I did was just go into those meetings and doing the next right thing, they say. You know, so when you see that life changes just because you're being a good person, you don't want to give it up. I mean, I have stolen so much. Yeah, right? Yeah, I've just done so many shady stuff just to survive one more day. This was day and night, you know. So it's like, oh yeah, I'm staying here.

[00:24:23] So my wife eventually, she didn't speak English very well. She's like, are there any Russian groups like this in Chicago? And we started looking it up in the directory and there was no Russian group. So we were like, well, I guess we'll be the ones. So we started asking people in the meetings if they have seen any other Russians, you know. And we found one guy, one African-American guy said, oh, I saw one Russian. I'll give you the phone number. We're like, okay, give us the number. So we started, like three of us started meeting, you know. And then the fourth guy came.

[00:24:52] Then the fifth guy came. And so on. And so we started growing this little Russian movement in Chicago. And guess what? Like now, we're going to have a 16th annual convention of Russian-speaking AAs in North America. We have a regional committee that is working. Now we have 200 Russians coming in from all over. Single people from this town, this town, this town, you know. That's awesome. We have a website. We have a website. We started a non-for-profit organization and everything just to coordinate this.

[00:25:19] We create conventions on Zoom during COVID. We like united with the European guys who speak Russian there, you know, Russians and everything. So now we're this one big community that helps people who don't speak English find recovery too. Stuff like this, you know. So it's like our musical talents came in handy. My wife and I started creating those little skits and, you know, music numbers to entertain alcoholics, you know, who are sober now, you know.

[00:25:47] So, I mean, your higher power can find a thing or two for you to do if you stay close to it. And life will never be boring. That's another thing too. Remember when you're like, people say you have to quit drinking. You're like, oh, how's my life going to be? I'm going to be a square. Life's going to be dark and boring, right? No, none of this has been happening. You know, they call it the pink cloud. Have you heard of that? Like when you just released, right? So that pink cloud I'm still on 21st year, right?

[00:26:17] I don't know when it's going to dissipate. Yeah, 20 years. I believe it doesn't. I believe it won't dissipate because it's all a mentality. I just have to unpack a couple things there. The importance of letting go, surrendering, like you said.

[00:26:36] And whenever I've talked about this in the past, it's accepting the facts of reality and having a level of neutrality and allowing yourself to like get through that. You know? Yep. So that's awesome that a level of acceptance, like in breaking generational conditioning through politics and like understanding and giving your faith into something bigger than yourself.

[00:27:04] Like I'm not religious, but I am spiritual. So I feel that. Another recap. I remember the first time that I felt the opiate high without taking opiates. I was on a walk and I was in nature and I was present. And I remember just feeling this euphoria and I recognized that feeling. And I cried that day too, similar to your story.

[00:27:33] So that one was really good. And then, man, just bridging the gap of language because it is difficult for immigrants or even if I was to go to like, you know, a Spanish nation to speak in Espanol. I know a little bit, but it's difficult. So anyone who's bilingual, I have a lot of respect for.

[00:27:58] And to share that gift, you know, to share that gift with others that are very similar. That's just my quick recap on some of that. Like what a great story. I don't know. I'm sure you have questions, comments. Well, yeah. I mean, I appreciate you taking us on that journey, you know, and kind of paint the picture of the story so that the viewers can really take in, you know, because people just see you now or they see Arthur and I now and they don't really see that backside of the story. And like you said, you know, in these meetings, you have people sharing this like, oh, other people have been through this.

[00:28:25] And, you know, we've been pretty fortunate to hear on the podcast to share stories like that that can also help people stay sober a day. And it's just an incredible movement, like you said. And staying on that cloud is a powerful thing. Yeah. There's another miracle I want to share. You know, when I was six, I came from school and it was Soviet Union. Like, you know, you cannot talk against the government. Therefore, you cannot talk about God. Right. Because there was a no-no in atheist country.

[00:28:52] And I came from home and I, from school and I said to my mom, mom, my first teacher is so nice and he's so good. I want to be like a teacher when I grow up. And she told me, son, you could be anything you want. You know, it's kind of funny and cliche now, but at that time it was very encouraging. And I kind of remembered that I wanted to be a teacher and I was helping my classmates all the time. So I kind of had that, you know.

[00:29:17] And another day I came from home and somebody had given me this little crucifix, you know, like a little cross to play with. And kids in Russia didn't have enough taste. Was that trouble? It was listen, yeah. So I didn't know. I was six or seven, like first grade. Yeah. And I brought it to school, you know. I didn't know what it was. It was just like a new toy for me that wasn't sold in stores, right? And my teacher saw it. She started getting covered like her face was in red blotches.

[00:29:45] Because she was like, it's against something, the rule, the policy, you know. You cannot talk about God or bring. Where did you get that? And I don't understand what's going on. Why am I being yelled at, right? So she took me to the principal and he asked me where I got it. He said my uncle gave it to me. Whatever. They used to like chase people who followed religion, right? And like KGB was after them. It was pretty tough. They'd jail you and kill you in 30s and 40s, you know. Send you to labor camps in 50s and 60s and put you in a cuckoo house in 70s and 80s, right?

[00:30:13] So it was kind of, you know, not really a free choice for you to believe you were under. So my mom actually, when I came home, I was like, mom, what is this? And she actually went down to whisper even in 80s. It was 81 maybe. 1981. She's like, some people say there is no God, but there is. You know? I was like, oh, wow, you know. And I remembered that. But then you kind of become a teenager. You want to be liked by girls and stuff.

[00:30:41] So I started playing music, long hair, all that stuff. You know? And I forgot about it. I wanted to, you know, become a rock star. And my sponsor always jokes like that. I chose the wrong rocks, you know. You know, if you know the nickname for the crack, right? So, you know, and so what happened, right? The miracle of recovery. Once, like you said, you surrender and you find that new vibration.

[00:31:08] I was in that halfway house, living in a halfway house after rehab, right? Dating my wife again. She was not too far away. We would just go on dates again, you know. It was really romantic and stuff. And I was looking for a job. There was a college nearby where I went to a computer lab to look for jobs. And I saw one girl helping somebody with their essay papers. And she was swamped by students. And just a thought came to me, like, maybe she needs some help. You know, that's a part of recovery. You always be of service, you know.

[00:31:38] So, I'm like, do you need help? She's like, it would be nice. Are you a tutor? I'm like, no, but I can be. You know what I mean? So, because, you know, I learned the language by what? By learning it. So, I know it better than you guys because I have to understand what I'm saying, right? So, she's like, go to the dean, ask him. And the dean's like, well, we're not hiring. But, you know, how about volunteering, I said. And the dean's like, oh, of course, you know, go volunteer, you know. So, I started doing this.

[00:32:04] And a year later, I find myself teaching English as a second language for people from all over the world in the best building right next to the United Center in Chicago where Chicago Bulls are playing, you know. Like with the best equipped room, you know, with this big, you know, presentation boards, computers, and electronic laser pointers and stuff. You know, doing what I do best, right? I can teach English to people who are learning English because I was the one who learned English. The same like in recovery, right?

[00:32:33] And an alcoholic can help another alcoholic because he has or she has gone through it, you know. So, God was putting me in those places. Like, and one day, I remember the security guard said to me, good morning, professor. And I actually looked around like this, you know. Who is he calling? Because I remember just like a year and a half shooting crack, you know, in the west side trying to find a vein. It was just like it's a trip, you know. Wow. So, those little things, you know, little gifts. Yeah, little gifts.

[00:33:00] And of course, we don't become perfect right away. There's a lot of character defects that I still carry with me, you know. But the fact is that I'm willing, right? Willing to be open to the challenge that my higher power provides me with every day. That's enough, man. Life becomes full and there's no thought. Like, there was only one thought, right? When something went wrong when I was using. I need to get high to solve it, right? Now, this thought is not there and I did not remove it.

[00:33:28] So, I have to give credit to whatever that was that removed that thought. Because I couldn't do it no matter how many times I tried. So, I keep honoring my higher power. I keep helping the newcomers. I keep doing what I'm doing and it seems to be, you know, fulfilling me. And if you think about it, they say there's the biggest stress in life. One of the biggest stress psychologists put in as like losing your loved one and losing your parent, right?

[00:33:57] So, I lost my mom in 2016. And I lost my wife to cancer five months ago. Okay. So, my life partner of 33 years, she lost that battle, right? She fought hard. She was a light of the world and the best thing that ever happened to me. And the thought to use about it was not nowhere near, you know? It's like, how can I honor my wife by getting high? That makes no sense to me today.

[00:34:24] You know, if it was 20 years ago, that would be the first thing I would be doing. I wouldn't even be at the funeral, right? I'd be like, oh, poor me, poor me. Let me get away from it. You know, today I face life because people like, you know, like sober people taught me how to live life on life's terms. That's what you said. You know, accepting life as is and seeing what can be done with it. So, what are my gifts to this world? How do I develop these gifts?

[00:34:52] What do I need to surrender today, right? To become a better conduit to better, you know, transmitter of God's will. Being an example of, you know, the right doing, something like that. You know, right and wrong always changes. It feels so good. That feels the best, honestly. When you know that you're being a selfless person and you're doing it just because it's the right thing to do.

[00:35:17] And it's weird because I'll hear my consciousness tries to talk me out of doing selfless things sometimes. Like, I think about it and I'm like, do I really need to do that? I'm like, well, yeah, you just thought about it. Um, so that's it. That's a great place to be.

[00:35:34] And, um, to your point of, you know, getting rid of that thought and not like your present self doesn't need to lean on a substance to find a solution or to find happiness, even though life comes at us. Um, with that whole point, I really think it's for me. And I just have to say this from my own perspective is you, you have to deal with the gray.

[00:36:03] So when you are changing, like what is you, you're using a fake substance to feel something. And when you're trying to feel something else and you remove that, there's this gray area. I don't know how, how long it takes for everybody. It's different. For me, the gray area lasted at least like three to six months where I couldn't see color in the day. It was always mundane. It was always boring.

[00:36:32] But I do remember being in that mentality back in the day of like, you know, how boring would life be if I didn't do drugs or like all this other stuff? You know, like I used to think like that. And now I, I, I find so much more value because I made it through the gray. I started to see the light and there's actually color and there's actually more beauty. And what I see now is more beautiful and euphoric than what I ever saw on drugs.

[00:37:00] Like, even though I thought that was the shit back then, like what I experienced now, like how life is now being responsible, you know, being honest. Like I used to lie all the time, but being honest, like that feeling to know that you're an honest person, like it means a lot. So, I mean, there's a lot that radiates with your story. Yeah, there is. Yeah. You know, I always say you got to feel it to heal it. Right.

[00:37:26] And so for me, I just buried myself in alcohol for so long and all the problems I had and anger, it'll go away once I get drunk, you know, that type of stuff. So, you know, feeling it to heal it. And I remember when I, the first week I got off alcohol, things started going wrong. So all the problems started happening. Life was tested. You know, piggybacking off your point of not using during, you know, hard times and our condolences on your loss, by the way. But yeah, life's going to get hard and things happen. Right. And I think that that's the real test.

[00:37:52] You know, when you're in that gray area, when you're coming off of addiction, when you're, you know, finding the color again, you know, there's always going to be those rainy days. And I think that's, you can get through those sober and just staying sober one more day through it. I mean, that's, that's kind of my approach to it, that we're going to stay sober today. We're going to, we're going to move on to tomorrow because you start thinking too far ahead. And then it gets, you know, anxiety starts creeping in and, you know, everyone's a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Different personality all over. But notice how it is even for you guys, right?

[00:38:20] How much more inspiring is for you to work together this part podcast, right? It's always, that's the goodness of, you know, fellowships of all sorts, right? 12 step or otherwise, it doesn't matter when you have like-minded people. It's almost like you. I always use this analogy with the old radio. Remember those radios where you could tune to different frequencies, right? I used to have one. And when I wanted to catch this, like a middle frequencies that are hard to catch, I would

[00:38:46] touch the antenna and the signal would get stronger because it would use my body as an antenna too. So when you come to the gathering of people that are like-minded, it's almost like you're grabbing this antenna to hear the signal of whatever that is you're trying to tune yourself into, right? Much better. So you can do it alone. Yeah. But what's the point? You know, we are scientists already found that we have set of neurons called mirror neurons in the brain that get activated in the presence of other person and start imitating that even

[00:39:14] if I'm doing nothing, my brain is doing what you're doing. You know, so why not use the tool that nature has given us already to get better? You know, so why not gather somewhere for free? Think about that too, right? All these 12 step groups are free. Just to sit for an hour once a week or twice a week, whatever many you need, and just reflect upon your life. How was my week? What happened to other people, right?

[00:39:39] How many people can say with like pride or satisfaction that they know somebody, have known somebody for 10 or more years and seen them grow and being honest and helping each other, right? We just run, run, run. And where do we meet? In the bar? You know, for a happy hour or work gathering where everybody is just saying, are we getting paid for it? You know what I mean? It's just like, where are those groups? Church groups? Yeah, good. You know, and I do say to people, go back to your church if you don't like 12 step groups.

[00:40:09] Somebody. But who is going to be better understanding, right? Than the people who have gone through similar stuff. You know, people in churches, when you tell them you're an addict, they kind of grab their purses, right? A little closer. You know, people in AA, they clap to you. Hey, you're sober. You know? So it's like, okay, nice. You know, so definitely this element of unity, working together, doing the next right thing. And I wanted to address this thing about doing selfless things. I did not get rid of my ego.

[00:40:38] I'm still a selfish dude. You know, I just know the value of a selfless action. You know, some people say doing the right things with the wrong intention is better than not doing anything. You know, maybe it's not. It doesn't sound profound or nice and noble. But people will judge you not by what you think, but what you do. You know? So I used to think like this. If you were my friend and I needed a 20, right? To get high. I would just think like, how am I going to get your 20?

[00:41:08] And what do I need to do, right? To get that 20. Today, I think, well, how can I help you? And then, oh, maybe God will give me something. So my ego is not gone. It's just more natural for me to think about helping you first. And then, yeah, if I get a reward, good. If I don't, I'm staying sober. That's my reward. You know what I mean? So ego is important. If you think about it, ego is a combination, right? It's like a Lego, you know, the Lego blocks put together to create a lot of things. Create your personality, you.

[00:41:37] If you remove every single Lego block, what's going to be left? Pure energy. So you basically will disappear into thin air if I am is going to be gone. So we need the ego to experience this world, right? It's just it doesn't dominate me as much as it used to. I allow my higher power to step in. And it's so much fun to do its bidding because there's always something new it's offering. Drugs always told me to do the same thing. You know, go steal there.

[00:42:06] Don't go lie there, you know, just to get this. And you're going to get this best high. And eventually it was like three minutes of fun. It was never as good as the first time. It was a lie. No, no, no. It's a lie. But it was always sold us like this, right? I'm going to tell you this quick joke. There's a joke about this guy dying, right? And choosing where to go. He's got a chance to choose. And the guy is asking him, would you like to see, you know, the hell and the heaven? The guy's going, yeah, sure. So he opens the door and he sees heaven.

[00:42:36] Everybody's wearing light robes. Birds are chirping. People are talking in soft voices. He's like, okay, nice. Good. So how about hell? So they open another door and there's a party going on. Everybody's partying, sex, drugs, rock and roll, whatnot, right? He's like, oh, awesome. You know, I want to go here. And the guy goes, okay, well, sign right here. So the guy signs up as he finishes signing up. Two big ass demons grab him, drop him on the frying pan and starting the fire.

[00:43:05] He's like, hey, what's going on? What about that room? They say, sir, don't confuse advertisement with reality. You know, so that's how the devil is, right? If you want to call that, you know, it's like, hey, look at this colorful, shiny things. But then I'm going to screw you in the butt. You know what I mean? So it's always like this. This is just a law, you know, of energy. What you put in is what you get out. You know, so true.

[00:43:33] And I agree, like with the being selfish thing as well, because you have to take care of yourself first. And if you're not willing to prioritize yourself, if you don't put yourself above everything, then you can't do anything. And that was one thing that was kind of hard for me to completely understand and do it in a humble way. Because you do need to have a level of self-confidence.

[00:44:02] Like I'm the motherfucking ship. I can keep this ship on course. Like good luck doing it like me. Good luck working as hard as me. And like you almost have to have. And like I'm a little jaded. Like I've gotten ripped off so many times. I've gotten screwed over so many times. Like I'm jaded. So like there is that like you have to be selfish. But then you also have to be like humble. And then we all know the right thing to do.

[00:44:32] And we don't always want to do it. And when you start just listening and doing the right thing anyway, there is this reality there that is so beautiful. Because you've taken care of yourself. You're listening to what you know you need to do. You're humble about what you've accomplished. And then all of a sudden people around you, everyone starts growing.

[00:45:02] And it's like Kev, like you have that power. Like Kevin's like done all these different things. And it's like help motivate me. And like I've done, like you're saying, like we're so fortunate to have each other. Yeah, the unity. Yeah, I can keep going off right now. Yeah, yeah, there you go. You guys actually, did you know you put the ferns on the left and then right? And you're sitting between two ferns? It looks like it. Yeah. It's like Zach Galifianakis. Yeah, right. Here's another view of the studio here. There you go. There you go.

[00:45:32] And normally the guest is sitting right here. Yeah. And so if you're ever in Denver, obviously. Yeah, if you come through Denver, we've got to get you on the couch. Yeah, obviously. We're getting you on the couch. Yeah, and you will shrink me. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Absolutely, guys. Yeah, perfect. Perfect. I mean, I'm glad that I have a chance to share. And hopefully it will be beneficial for somebody. It's important. We need to take care of ourselves.

[00:45:59] Yeah, obviously, because I cannot be of help to people if I'm not taking care of myself. But selfishness and self-care are two different things, right? And I could be selfish sometimes because I haven't overcome all the fears, right? And stuff like this. So yeah, sometimes I'll do something small and ineffective just to save my ass. But most of the time, I'm inspired enough to step outside my comfort zone and do something that's right. Because I know already the results of it. They pay off.

[00:46:28] So even just like... I can't believe you went from professor of crack to professor of English. Right? Yeah. I'm telling you, I still don't believe that. That is crazy. In a short, in the matter of like a year and a half, it was just like weird, weird, weird, you know? And those stories are important for other people with low self-esteem especially. Like, hey, if a Russian immigrant, right, was able to just do stuff like this with God's help,

[00:46:58] let's use the word God for the lack of a better word, you know, then you can do it too. And that's exactly what saved me because I lost hope. I almost had nothing. And when I heard stories of the people who are less fortunate than me getting better through, you know, through recovery process, I'm like, I can do that too. And that's what I'm here for actually, to carry the same message. You know, you don't have to be an alcoholic because these 12 steps work in another 300 fellowships.

[00:47:24] You just substitute your word alcohol with under-earning or cluttering or emotions or gambling, you know, or sex and love and apply those steps in a group of like-minded people. Use those steps in everyday activities and all your affairs and see what happens. You know, that's it. So if you have any more questions, hey, reach out to me. You know, you will always find me at MetaCoaches, right? Yeah. Yeah. Drop all your plugs for us. We'll include them in the show notes down below.

[00:47:53] What's the best way for people to find you? Yeah. So I guess it would be easy to just write at Sasha at MetaCoaches.org. You know, I'm a life coach. I'm a couples coach. Addictions, obviously. You know, so Sasha, S-A-S-H-A, right? Like you hear it, at MetaCoaches.org. And I'll respond, you know, definitely within 48 hours, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[00:48:17] I love what you're doing with helping Russians that are learning English and having this program that has helped so many people through that. And even just recording these type of podcasts, not everybody has the courage to actually get involved and to reach out. But this might actually, and I guarantee this conversation will touch people. It's helped me already. Like even just reminders. Amen. No, that's stuff. It was like a meeting itself.

[00:48:47] Right? Yeah. I'm going to be rich and famous, right? You guys have to guarantee that. Rich and famous. We're doing this together, Sasha. We're on the journey together. Of course. Of course. We're taking this. Yeah. I love what Tony Robbins said about that, right? Money does not change people. It just amplifies who they are. And I love it. That's true. So that's basically, if we get the money, hey, amen to that. No, we'll still be fine. You know. That's right. We're already provided for it. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

[00:49:16] Yeah, absolutely. Definitely touching. Everybody watching and listening in. Superdaddyo. Definitely. Yeah. Check out Superdaddyo. We'll put the website below. And what an amazing man. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you guys. Thank you so much for inviting me. Enjoy your night. And I hope to see you guys in person one day. Yeah. Absolutely. Stay in touch, Sasha. All right. Peace. You deserve it. Thank you. Thank you guys. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

[00:49:47] That was awesome. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.