Robb Horen | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #286

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe.

[00:00:18] So we tighten that up. I think it's more fun now honestly. Hopefully. More lucid. I remember the combos, you know, what the guest is actually saying. I'm just booze-brained over here. Sure. Here we are, 286. Rob, welcome. Awesome. Fantastic. Honored to be here. Thanks for the invite. Absolutely. Just so everybody knows, this is a local Denver business owner. Yes, sir. It's great to have you in. We love talking to entrepreneurs. Happy to be here.

[00:00:44] And I'm guessing that like a dog grooming and like the storefront, was that your first venture as an entrepreneur? Actually, it is not. I started Doggy Daycare with my girlfriend in 2003 called For the Love of Dog and that was the genesis of us getting into the dog business. Okay.

[00:01:02] In the early, like late 90s, early 2000s, I was working for a small startup company, a little dot-com IT company and I was operations manager there. So I saw as the dot-com bubble was rapidly deflating in the early 2000s, my girlfriend came with me while I was assisting my CEO's care of his dog by dropping her out at a doggy daycare.

[00:01:30] And back then it was like a vanguard, like doggy daycare was very much a new thing. So she came with me to pick up Emma, this little lab mix and saw, you know, it was like a all indoors, chain link, pea gravel, smelled like dog piss and defecation. And she's like kind of, she just has that mindset of like taking a existing model and like leveling it up.

[00:01:55] So when the business, I knew the business was winding down and she had the idea of wanting to start a doggy daycare, I gladly jumped on board with that, with her. So in 2003, we opened up for the love of dog and got that going. And even though it was vanguard, it was still, it became very popular very quickly.

[00:02:16] And within a couple of years, we started looking for another location because we were like rapidly hitting our daily limits in the site, the facility that we had. And I remember sitting down with my father, he's an attorney going over the lease documents with my girlfriend. And he's like, this is a pretty big liability, you know, at the time, you know, she was just a big gamble of if this will work. And, uh, or at that time, our break even was 50 dogs a day.

[00:02:44] And pretty quickly we were hitting, you know, a hundred dogs a day and having to limit how many dogs we could have. So, uh, we started looking for other locations. Um, we were really spoiled cause we were in Glendale. We're off of, um, Cherry in Virginia, right over by the Cherry Creek. What was then a Cherry Creek Athletic Club is now Lifetime Cherry Creek, which breaks my heart. Another story. But, um, uh, we started looking for other locations, but the zoning for doggy daycare is very specific. And Glendale being like, you know. With all that barking.

[00:03:14] Yeah. Usually it'd end up in like a very industrial setting versus in Glendale. We were basically, you know, in the town of Mayberry where it's just like, you know, you knew the mayor and the city council on a first name basis. But you're surrounded by some of the most affluent neighbors, neighborhoods in Denver. You got Hilltop, Belcaro, Cherry Creek, Country Club. Uh, so we just kind of kept going and finding these spaces that were zoned for it, but didn't fit our kind of more boutique style doggy daycare.

[00:03:40] Uh, so we pivoted to doing, uh, retail and, and at the, when we initially said I was just like a do it yourself dog wash and maybe some bathing. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so in 2006 or 2005, we started looking for locations for that.

[00:03:58] Uh, we were, had a lease drawn up for a location on 15th and Market, which at that time was still, you know, downtown's, uh, renewal into like a, you know, urban neighborhood was still kind of new. So we were kind of, we went down on a Sunday to see what the foot traffic was on 15th and Market street. Cause it had to, you know, it was cool, like exposed brick kind of loft thing, everything we were looking for.

[00:04:22] And we went to brunch at Bistro Bendome, which was still there at the time, which is another sad thing. But, uh, came out from having brunch and Larimer Square was just packed with people and it had like a great energy. And we happened to see one of the spaces was papered over. So we're like, why would, why'd we never looked here before? Um, my girlfriend, who's my partner named Dana Hood, she emailed just the general information for Larimer Square that Sunday afternoon.

[00:04:49] And by that evening, the, the manager of the block, the property manager had gotten back to us. So we love the concept. Less than 24 hours. Yeah. So everything kind of, it was just kind of, you know, provenance synergy. We, everything fell into place from there. We glad, you know, we cut off negotiations with 15th and Market and started, um, looking at the places on Larimer. And when we got to tour the space that we're in now that we've been in for, uh, since October of 2006, we had our official opening.

[00:05:16] Uh, I had a flashback to my freshman year at CU Denver that CU Denver back in the late, um, eighties was so small that like they literally had their bookstore was on Larimer Square. And I remember that space we were looking at was, was the bookstore for CU Denver. So, uh, but going into the retail and the dog wash thing, um, was just kind of a natural evolution from the doggy daycare.

[00:05:41] Very different businesses, but you know, similar, you know, caring, providing fun stuff for dogs and caring for dogs. Yeah. So I worked for a doggy daycare for like four years. Oh really? Which one? Camp Bowell Parker. That's a great one. Yeah. Gina, all the owners, they're all awesome. They still exist? Yes. They're the largest, if I'm not mistaken, the last I checked, they were the largest, uh, doggy daycare franchise in the country. She did a great job with it. Yeah. Yeah. Gina was good.

[00:06:07] That's why I stayed there so long because, you know, usually you get like people coming out of high school. They're there for like a year or like a summer, but the management was so good. And honestly, working with the dogs was, it was, it changed who I was. I changed after working with dogs for several years. Like I B I became more like physical, like I would touch more and like, and like you could pick up on your own body language and how it affects the room.

[00:06:36] Cause dogs are reading your body language and their energy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm a big fan of Cesar Milan and that's a lot of the things that we learned at the early part of it too. Cause Cesar Milan was just kind of coming out then and it was like, oh my God, there's this whole, another layer of communication that I'd been unaware of my entire life where he's not, not only your energy, but like how your body language, how you're communicating with the dogs. And if you get frustrated and, uh, lose your patience that the dogs that's, that's low energy.

[00:07:03] And, you know, he teaches you to be kind of like calm, like a gunslinger to like stay cool, even though things are going sideways around you. And, and you find the solution versus like, you know, adding to the problem. So have you seen his newer stuff? I mean, cause the dog whisperer came out then and he has a new program now. I don't know if it's on Hulu or one of those, um, where it kind of more goes into the human behavior and not just the focus on the dog and like kind of training humans a bit. And he's just really good. I think I've always been inspired by his work. I agree. And I think he's done so much good.

[00:07:32] I mean, like anything, when you get so famous, suddenly you become the subject of many, um, disagreements. Criticisms. It's like anything people are going to have opinions. Uh, people thought that he was like a, you know, negative, um, training, but like that, the whole thing, which I love when they incorporated in the, in the South Park. And I've never saw that.

[00:07:52] But, um, you know, the way he, I think his gift is, is of communication where he's able to like, you know, elucidate the owner of what behavior you're doing. That's creating the unwanted behavior in the dog. Yeah. So it's like, you know, oh, you're, my dog keeps doing this thing and it's just driving me crazy. He's like, well, that's because you're doing this, this, and this, and that's leading to the dog's behavior like this. Or you're, you're, you're coming in at low energy and the dog, dogs are pack animals and they need to have a leader. Yeah.

[00:08:20] And if you're coming in low energy and, and they want to be the leader, then they're going to take over and become the, become the leader of the pack. So just, just fascinating stuff. But yeah, you learn so many different things from dogs and it just, yeah, just really, you know, brings into sharp focus, like what's important in your life. I think, you know, the hardest thing about the businesses we have is, is, you know, you get so attached to the, to the dogs as customers and you develop such a unique relationship with the owners because you're caring for their, their precious little fur babies. Yeah. Kid.

[00:08:50] And, you know, uh, one of my early on at the daycare, one of the employees pointed out, you know, the longer you're in business, the more your customers are going to literally die because their, their lifespans are so much shorter than ours. And having been through many difficult losses of dogs, the only way I can square that their lives are shorter than ours is that they're perfect little Zen masters, perfect little spiritual beings who have no care for yesterday or tomorrow.

[00:09:15] They're just always present and they're here to bring us into the now and to connect us with that. Um, you know, basically all that we ever have, which I don't know if you know Eckhart Tolle, but like, Oh yes. Um, he has a great, uh, book that he did in collaboration with the guy who illustrates the comic called mutts. Um, and it's called guardians of being. And I thought it was just such a fascinating way to think about it.

[00:09:39] Like, you know, dogs are such a unique relationship we've built with them over millennia where, you know, they count on us for everything, but they also give so much back in exchange. So, yeah, I'm sure this industry has changed a lot too since 06, like route to market back then before Facebook and a lot of the social media stuff was like customer acquisition, more word of mouth, or was it just so much of that foot traffic? We literally did all kinds of gorilla marketing for the, for the doggy daycare, which was kind of fun before it opened. That was the first business that my girlfriend and I had opened up.

[00:10:09] And, uh, it was fun. We were like, I mean, she's just a marketing genius, but she, uh, came up with like all these like things that we were printing up literally on our home printer, you know, like coming soon, you know, like doggy. Hey, Karen, we're, we're going around to all the different neighborhoods and coffee shops and, you know, tacking things up because that was before the, uh, smartphone and, and obviously the social media. So it was just all gorilla marketing, you know, going out and literally. There was something fun about those days.

[00:10:34] It was kind of cool because it was like that, that physicality of like, Oh, you know, I'm leaving a stack of things here. And then someone comes in with that actual, um, tangible item. Like, Oh, I saw this over a, you know, this coffee shop on 12th Avenue or something like that. I will say the sticker campaign still kind of works. So people love stickers. Sure. They want to stick it to their Nalgene or whatever. Laptops. Yeah. Laptops. So stickers, I feel like are kind of still that old school touch, but like bands, you know, you don't see them staple in flyers to telephone poles anymore. They just send a blast out on Instagram.

[00:11:05] You know? Right. That's true. Yeah. It has changed. It has changed. But, um, I do agree with the, the energies. That's kind of interesting stuff like about, you know, how dogs keep us present and how important that is. A layer of life that is so that it's there at all times. And it's just, are you paying attention? True. True.

[00:11:26] And the whole demeanor thing too, because at a doggy daycare, you know, like you walk in there, if someone's having a bad day or their energy is off, like all of a sudden the yard starts getting crazy. Oh yeah. Like. They pick up on all those. Yeah. So the dogs start getting wild in the yard. I know I've told like this story a thousand times probably, but like if you go in there and you have a strong posture and you just start doing laps, like controlled walking laps around the yard, then all of a sudden you got these 30 crazy dogs that are all following you. And like all in line in order. That really taught me a lot.

[00:11:56] That taught me a lot growing up. It is amazing. And it's something you can take out into everyday life because, uh, you know, leadership energy translates into so many different things, whether it's like a, you know, you're, you're negotiating a sale or you're, you're doing something like that. It's like a, what, what kind of energy do you bring to the interaction? Yeah. Yeah. And so we'll kind of keep it on dog savvy for a little bit. Okay. So that's, that's the current business, awesome grooming facility. And then also doggy boutique. Sure. Right. Okay.

[00:12:26] So, and this is off of Larimer street downtown. Correct. And it's, you've been there. I said during our promo, like over 20 years, but it's actually 18 years. Stay over 18 years. We opened in October of 2006 officially. Uh, like I said, we started out with just the, the retail item. So, you know, the boutique was kind of the bread and butter of the business.

[00:12:45] Uh, we opened up, I mean, the day we opened up, it was just, you know, we started making sales because downtown Denver at that time, even though it was, it was just kind of starting to hit that critical mass with more retail and restaurants and, and, um, the loft, the city living becoming, um, more, more and more popular. Uh, we quickly pivoted to, because, you know, we were, we were offering like bath and brush or do it yourself wash, but then we kept getting these requests for grooming. And we want grooming, grooming, grooming.

[00:13:13] So I kind of started dipping our toes into, into the grooming business. And, and I remember early on being advised from another, um, business that was on, uh, Downing and Alameda at another dog grooming shop. And he's like, don't, don't get into dog grooming because it can be, um, kind of like, and I'd, I'd worked in a hair salon before too.

[00:13:33] It's, it's, you know, you get a very creative type of personality that may not necessarily translate into a, a good business fit, but, uh, the dog grooming was just so high demand that we switched to doing dog grooming as well. And, uh, the trajectory of, of building the dog grooming business has been, uh, pretty amazing as well. Um, and then again, you know, you build that relationship where you see the dogs on a regular basis. You're seeing them every four, six, eight weeks and, uh, you know, becomes part of, part of their routine.

[00:14:01] Uh, but it's been challenging, uh, coming from 2006 where, you know, second we opened the door, we were just making sales, sales, sales. And it was a pretty recession proof business early on where, you know, we, we opened in 2006 and then, um, having the, the 2008, uh, DNC in Denver was amazing. We were selling like, um, political merch, like hand over fist.

[00:14:30] We had these bark Obama bandanas and all this fun stuff like that. Um, and just seeing the city is just like, you know, thriving and just being like a, you know, like a true metropolitan area was really cool. Um, and then, then the, the financial crisis kind of like took a little bit of the wind out of the sails, but, you know, we, we kind of found that, you know, when things were tight like that, uh, people actually felt get, got more comfort out of like spoiling their dogs than, than spoiling themselves. So that, that kind of got us through that.

[00:14:59] Um, and then it was just kind of like, you know, smooth sailing all the way up until COVID. And then when COVID hit, it just kind of really took the wind out of the, the downtown, uh, business district because the no improvements. No, really? I mean, I'd say it's just gotten worse and worse based on my sales. Yeah. So now, so I used to be two thirds, you know, uh, retail sales for my revenue. And then the grooming was just kind of gravy on top of that.

[00:15:28] And now it's the inverse. Oh, interesting. So my, my retail sales are just hit or miss, uh, combination of the downtown business district just being hollowed out from COVID measures. And then all the disruption with construction and everything. Talked to a, you know, one of the customer who had a bar on 16th street and he's like, yeah, we're just starting to see the light coming out, out of COVID. And then, and then the city decided to tear up 16th street mall. And it was, you know, they put up all this construction fencing and he said they literally had to shut down because the business just fell off a cliff.

[00:15:58] Uh, but also we, you know, might as well have all the change at once we got acquired or our property got acquired in 2021, uh, by a real estate investment trust out of North Carolina that, um, made, made the original owner an offer. He couldn't refuse, which I know, no hard feelings on him. He did an amazing job, uh, creating Larimer square and, you know, growing up in Colorado, that was just always kind of like one of the crown jewels of the restaurant and retail areas, which was, I was just such a

[00:16:29] prideful thing to be able to say, you know, we have this business on Larimer square because growing up, it was like everyone knew. Yeah. It's kind of like, yeah, that's the spot. It's kind of like the cherry Creek North, but in downtown, you know, very, very, you know, metropolitan and hip and trendy and great restaurants and fun shops. So then in 2021, you know, when in the midst of all the COVID stuff and the city measures, as far as like shutting down operations, I was the only retail business that was open or allowed to be open during COVID.

[00:16:58] So in 2020, it was like a post-apocalyptic movie where I'd look at it. It's like, where is everybody? And, uh, I was sitting. What strange times. That was strange times. Weird times. It was really strange times. You were an essential business, right? Yeah. Cause I was considered an essential business, even though my bread and butter was like kitschy, you know, leashes, collars, beds, bowls, treats, toys, and a little bit of food. Since I sold dog food, I was considered essential. But then, uh, you know, so I was doing okay with that, still doing grooming.

[00:17:27] And then, um, obviously hindsight's 20, 20, um, but the, the mayor then suddenly decided that, um, dog grooming was too dangerous to put soap and water on dogs. Cause they were trying to limit interaction, face-to-face interaction. So they shut down dog grooming in the entire city. Um, and that just like killed my business. So I, I, I literally ended up cutting back my hours, even though I could be open. I just didn't have, you know, there was nobody walking around downtown. I'd be open for a limited time to fulfill food, treats, and stuff like that.

[00:17:57] But, and then, and then my phone was just ringing off the hook. Can I get in for grooming? I'm like, I am not allowed for the city ordinance. How long did that go for? I kind of want to say like six months. Yeah. Yeah. Um, start like a bootleg grooming. There were people doing it out of their house. Underground grooming. I mean, like literally facing, uh, consequences from the city if they got caught. But they were doing it out of their house and things. And then to me, it was that grooming is, I'm sure Paolo would tell you that the grooming is an essential service.

[00:18:25] If you're not cutting their nails and for dogs that need haircuts, if you let them go six months without a haircut, it's, it's, it's a, it's a health hazard. Yeah. Because they can get all kinds of skin conditions and other, uh, subsequent health problems. But, so that really kind of took, took the wind out of our sales, you know, killed our, our momentum. Uh, and the retail sales have never really recovered since. Um, but, uh, so then in 2021, we got officially acquired by, by the new landlord and their initial, uh,

[00:18:56] idea, which was leaked, um, to, you know, Denver's a small town. And, um, they leaked, they sent out to all the, the commercial realtors, a, uh, site plan for, for Larimer Square. And my spot was known as like K two Oh one or something like that instead of dog savvy. And I was like, huh, that's a little interesting. So they were shopping around the spaces to see if other commercial realtors wanted to, you know, bring in different people.

[00:19:22] Because the original plan was to turn Larimer Square into the Rodeo drive of the Rockies where they wanted to have all the international, the Gucci Hermes, um, you know, big, big name brands on that little block. Uh, however, um, that had been tried before in the eighties. Didn't, didn't work out as well. And from what I understand, the retailers that they were, they were trying to woo into that location. We're like, we're good. We're in Cherry Creek North two and a half miles away.

[00:19:50] Where there's only so many people that want to go out and spend seven, 800 or more on, on handbag. So, you know, kind of saturate the market. So, um, but that unfortunately led them to being really hard nosed with, uh, my legacy neighbors who, um, you know, they, they came in and, and I was one of a couple retailers that had a lease that went into 2023 or 2022.

[00:20:19] Yeah, 2022 or 23. Um, but we, we, we were beyond the leases of, of, of a lot of the legs, my, my neighbors. So, uh, the neighbors who they were originally negotiating with were like, we're going to walk because, you know, they didn't want to pay triple the amount with less, you know, it's like it's COVID. It's like, they weren't reading the room very well. Yeah. And, uh, they insisted on, you know, they just wouldn't budge on their negotiation.

[00:20:45] So it ended up pushing out Bistro Vendome, which was, you know, great, uh, well-known local restaurant, James Beard, Warren Winning Chef. I pushed them into, they're now over in, um, uh, Park Hill. And then, you know, we ended up losing a lot, you know, the market was the first casualty. That wasn't the landlord's fault. That was, um, when the city shut down the restaurants, it was literally the owner of the markets. Um, and it was their 39 year anniversary of being in business.

[00:21:14] I think he was looking for an exit plan and took it as a sign from the universe that it was time to close up. I wish he would have sold it, but it was definitely weird, unprecedented times. And so as more and more of my, my legacy neighbors started getting pushed out basically by not being able to negotiate a lease rate that they could afford to stay at.

[00:21:35] I just ended up in a spot that went from like a flourishing retail and restaurant area into a spot that was just a blight of empty spaces where, you know, there was less and less things to do. You start losing, you pretty quickly got to the point where that critical mass of different appeal for different demographics to come to the location, uh, became minimal. So it was like, uh, you know, very, very little foot traffic and that we're still dealing with that now. So it's definitely a challenge.

[00:22:05] It's really difficult and disheartening, um, to pivot back to the landlord to their credit. They've been incredibly generous and accommodating for us because I'll credit to my, my girlfriend because we're, we used the diminished, uh, retail environment that they created to negotiate a very aggressive lease rate for us to allow us to stay there. And see, here's the thing though, is like, I feel like a lot of people with leases, they just think it's a take as is thing.

[00:22:32] And like, you can actually put together a good, you know, proposition statement of to why you feel what is the actual fair market rate. And in most places, if anyone listens, can take anything out of this. It's like negotiate your, your lease for where you live or if you rent a business, we, we negotiated in this place. I'm all about haggling and, uh, you know, my girlfriend and I, having a partner, it is good because I was able to be like the good cop.

[00:23:00] She played the bad cop and, you know, we were able to, um, really hold, hold their feet to the fire because it was just like, you know, do you want yet another shuttered business on this block? Because that, uh, makes it more difficult for them to bring in new people or new, new businesses. If it's like, oh, well, there's no business. Yeah. You're going to be the only, the only man on the block or do you want, or do you want to, you know, or have a business that's been here, especially since we're, you know, been there for so long.

[00:23:25] Uh, so yeah, it's definitely one of those things like where just don't accept the first offer. You know, there's always, you can, there's in a lease negotiation. That's why they call it a negotiation. You're going to counter and a counter counter and you just, you get to back and forth until you reach something that's, that's a meaningful. It's so fun. The first no is always a yes. Yes. Yeah. The fifth no is a yes. I mean, sometimes I sell cars too. So, you know, until you just got to be tactful about how you do it.

[00:23:55] Absolutely. I agree. But so, um, so it sounds like you are used to pivoting your business when necessary. Sure. Um, it sounds like that the market flipped on as far as what was your most profitable items. Now it's turning into grooming more. Correct. So is it like time for another pivot with the business? Do you think? We're kind of in that, uh, that gray zone where I'm, I'm seeing, we've, we've got, um, speaking of lease negotiation, I've got a, a, a seventh amendment on my lease.

[00:24:25] Um, because, uh, things haven't improved. You know, the landlord keeps promising, oh, we're going to get more businesses open. Uh, but it's, it's just the hurry up and wait. Um, they've got an Ariat, uh, coming in cause I like your boots, but, um, Ariat is coming in on where, um, above comedy works. Do you ever guys go to come? It's a interesting location though. That is a Denver landmark. Um, but yeah, so it's going to be on 15th and Larimer, beautiful corner location.

[00:24:50] Um, they've got a Japanese high-end restaurant coming across where Ted's Montana girl had been for years. Spoke to the landlord, uh, that was supposed to be open already, but now it's like going to be Q3, Q4 this year. Okay.

[00:25:33] And I've seen, and I see coming soon signs and then you never see a contractor coming or going from it. It's like, what's going on with why, why are these businesses? Like they've got their signage up, but that's it. You know, it's like, and then months, weeks, weeks, months go by and it's like, there's no activity. So I feel like that's a, you know, headwind again from the city. Um, but, uh, as there's, they're supposed to be opening up more and more stuff. So I'm kind of like my, in my mind hoping for, you know, January by January 1st, we'll have a clear idea.

[00:26:01] Like if it's tenable to, to continue down there, I'm, I'm fairly certain. And, you know, ever the optimist keeping on the sunny side of the street that things will turn around. Um, the economy is going to start, um, picking back up as, you know, we get more deregulation and, and, um, less of a tax burden. Hopefully if, if, if what we've been sold is true.

[00:26:20] Uh, but, um, I'm hoping that, and again, I hope city leadership comes on board with the fact that, you know, without, um, safety and cleanliness and, and other businesses, you know, facilitating businesses opening in a, in a timely fashion, you know, downtown Denver is just going to stay a kind of a dead zone. So one of the, and like in the homeless is, you know, that's gotten a lot worse. And since 2020. Yeah. And 16th street mall was just down there a couple of weeks ago, you know, at that pizza place there, Brooklyn's finest. Oh, cool. And what's cross street.

[00:26:50] It was, uh, where was it? And you're like 18th and something. Yeah. I was at 14th and stout. And I walked over to 16th, right up that street there from stout. It was called Brooklyn's finest. But to your point, I'm like, is this even open? I was going through all this construction fencing, you know, it, it just, you couldn't even see it. You know, I would have walked right by it almost because of all the scaffolding. And all the stuff that was around there. That 16th street mall project really threw a wrench into the, the downtown Denver business district as well.

[00:27:16] Growing up here in the eighties, when they opened that, it was like a godsend because it, it brought that breath of fresh air into downtown. My father's an attorney office down there for decades. And it was just like in high school, you'd go down there and just be bored to tears. Cause it was just like, oh, here's another office building. But when they opened up the 16th street mall, it's like, oh, there's shopping. There's, there's restaurants. There's all this different stuff. And it was a beautiful, uh, metropolitan, you know, civic project to turn, turn like a street into like a big mall.

[00:27:42] Uh, but when they shut it down, what I understand, um, is that they, you know, started refurbishing it. It was long past due for, for the infrastructure to be redone under it. Um, but then they, they, they would hit a point where they found that the original contractors, instead of, uh, removing the old, um, trolley tracks, they just paved over them.

[00:28:03] And I, you may want to fact check me on that, but that's what I understand is that they, they, so all of a sudden, instead of just becoming like a smaller, you know, quick project where they can get in, switch out pipes, like, you know, electrical, et cetera. They had to like remediate all this other crud out of there. So that's what slowed it down. But, um, I do think they have it open from at least Lawrence to, um, Union Station. How long is this like? That's been going on for years.

[00:28:29] It was supposed to be, you know, it was supposed to be done, I think a year and a half ago. Yeah. Um, now they're saying it's supposed to be open by, by spring or, or, or summer this year. Okay. Um, which tells me it's probably going to be, yeah. Next year. Spring, spring, summer. Yeah. I don't know. 12 months. Yeah. It's unfortunate. Because yeah, that, and that like is such a natural corridor for my foot traffic from people that, because, you know, there's hotels all throughout the city.

[00:28:55] But that 16th Street Mall, it was just like such a natural, um, corridor for, for people visiting the city to go and explore. And then they would look down Larimer and see our iconic lights over the street and be like, yeah, let's go and check out what's down there. And that, that, you know, I, I, it was a huge drop in foot traffic when, when that was closed. And then I know I'm a big dude and like, I would go up there, I was walking and doing like a bank deposit or something. And it's like, you're, you got, uh, you know, skyscraper here, construction fence there.

[00:29:23] And there's like nowhere to run, you know, like thinking tactically, it's like, there's no escape route because you've got, you're in a tunnel. Yeah. You're basically in a kill zone. You're like in a tunnel where you're like, there's no escaping. And it's like, um, I've never felt scared, but like, I, it's not something like I would, you know, I'm not going to recommend people visiting the city to go up and check it out. So I think that they are making, um, stride, you know, um, hitting, uh, benchmarks as far as like opening parts of it.

[00:29:50] I think the spot between Lawrence and Larimer was the first block that they opened and, and the way it looks is amazing. I'm all, I'm all here for it. I mean, they, they did a really nice job, like, uh, keeping the same theme, but modernizing it and it looks really cool, but just like anything, it just takes longer than they, than they anticipated. So I am really excited to the Denver, uh, mayor has gotten, I think like over 500 million in, uh, funding approved for the Lodo, um, refurbishment.

[00:30:20] Um, but, um, a little concerned with when I went through the survey of like what their priorities are as far as like, you know, bringing business and community back into Denver versus like, you know, all these things that sound nice on paper, but I don't, I don't know what kind of draw it brings to the city. So a lot to be decided yet. So yeah, it's still very, very, very preliminary, pretty contingent. Yeah. Well, you've traveled downtown a lot, so you know, Denver. Well, I've been on the hunt for the best slice of pizza in Denver. Yeah.

[00:30:48] And so I have, I'll be, you know, people say Marco's coal frat's good. I went to that Brooklyn's finest. They were pretty good. Like, uh, the basil one. Basil docks was good. Yeah. And that's, that's where I'm, I'm, I'm near like Holly street and Glendale too. Okay. So what's your opinion? Best slice in Denver. Best slice in Denver. I eat way more frozen pizza than I care to admit. So my go-to right now is, um, this, uh, brand that is called Porta, which you can get at Whole Foods or Sprouts. Okay.

[00:31:17] Um, it's a, uh, Italian flour. So it doesn't have all our, our GMO and, and, um, glyphosate sprayed, uh, wheat, but it has like that, that thin, uh, it has that like beautiful crust and good sauce. Um, but I have heard good things about, um, pie hole on, on, uh, um, South Broadway. Pie hole? Yeah. So it's like in that Sobo area. Um, um, I'm trying to think what else. Yeah.

[00:31:45] I just, um, since I eat so much frozen pizza at home, I don't, I don't care. Do you ever do like the cauliflower pizzas? Uh, I have tried those. Costco or something? Yeah. My girlfriend is, um, she, she likes to go, she's not gluten-free, but she likes to minimize gluten. Um, and I, I do like the, um, mod pizza, which we discovered in, in, uh, Scottsdale. And then we were like thrilled to find one. There's, um, I live down kind of South. So they have a mod pizza over by, uh, Park Meadows. That's pretty good. You know, for like, you know, counter service pizza. That's, it's really good.

[00:32:14] And then, and their cauliflower, um, gluten-free pizza is pretty good. I haven't tried the cauliflower one. Yeah. You gotta try it. I've been to that. I love gluten. I don't, it doesn't seem to bother me. Yeah. It's delicious. Yeah. So now have you served in the military as well? I have not. My father was in the Marine Corps. Okay. Yeah. I've got, um, mad respect for people that are in the military. How about like, uh, you never worked in like the supply chain industry? I have not. Okay. There was just a couple. Was there a reason for those questionings? Yeah. Well, yeah.

[00:32:42] Because before we started like recording, you would say like 10, four confirmed. I was saying copy. Copy. Copy that. But I got that from the callback. I listened to a lot of Jocko podcasts. Okay. Yeah. Jocko. I was just listening to a Jack Carr podcast. I was driving over here. It's because they're badass. Yeah. I just, I don't know what it is. It's like that, that middle-aged, um, American guy. I'm like fascinated with Vietnam and world war two and all those different things. Vietnam. I could, I could go off on that conversation. What a crazy war.

[00:33:12] I have not served. I've had a bunch of friends that have served as well. So we love the military. Yeah. We support the vets here. We've talked to a lot of vets, um, you know, suicide prevention programs and a bunch of that stuff is all extremely important. And so, um, I don't know. I just wanted to ask you that. Yeah. No, I just have a, you know, my dad was in the Marine Corps. I was, um, I was born in 71 in San Diego. Okay. Um, cause my dad was stationed at Camp Pendleton and my parents loved to joke that, you know, 71, you didn't have a cell phone.

[00:33:39] You could call for the same charge overseas as you can, uh, making a local call. So he spent a fortune. Um, my dad was in Okinawa. Uh, he, he went in as a, as a Jag. He did, um, uh, he did ROTC at CU to put himself through CU. And then he, uh, went to OCS officer candidate school through the Marine Corps and they put him through DU law school and said there was nothing like the prospect of being waist deep

[00:34:06] in a rice paddy with an M16 and a group of guys looking to you for leadership to keep your grades up. Yeah. Um, so then he graduated from law school, um, was sent to, uh, Okinawa after he finished all his training, et cetera. Um, so when I was being born, they spent a fortune on long distance phone calls just to call me junior. Um, but just always had a respect for the military. I wish in retrospect, I, I would have done a break in between high school and college and gone into the military.

[00:34:33] I think it would have been good for me, but you know, hindsight's 2020 again. So, um, but yeah, I just have a huge appreciation and a gratitude for, for the people that do choose to serve. And yeah, just, I'm just fascinated listening to the stories. Cause I'm, if you, if you like Vietnam, I don't know if you've heard of, um, John Stryker Meyer, but he was one of my favorite Jocko. I think he's been on Jocko's podcast a few times cause he, he wrote these books called like, uh, over the fence and things like that. Cause he was in SOG, which was like the Genesis for the seals and the Rangers and all those

[00:35:03] different things, these special forces. So, yeah. Yeah. But it just, I'm just fascinated by, you know, the, uh, human will to overcome adversity, things like that. And then the, you know, the call to bravery to, um, you know, put yourself in harm's way to protect your, your, your, your buddies, you know, which I was just listening to a micro podcast where he was interviewing a veteran who'd been stationed in Afghanistan and their,

[00:35:27] um, you know, their combat, uh, forward operating base had been attacked and, um, you know, just like listening to the, the emotion and their voices. It's just, it's just fascinating. I can listen to like a two hour podcast of that stuff with, without even blinking. So yeah, that's where I get. So I incorporate the copy that into my, I respect it. Nothing wrong with that. 10, four copy. Yeah, for sure. Jocko's great. I love like his, his little promo clips that come out and motivational stuff. The first one I think I saw by him, like where I was like, this guy is on

[00:35:57] of something was where he did the good, you know, you know, that promo clip he did. He's like, Oh, last job. Good. Yep. Don't have good enough equipment. Good. We're time to get better. It's all about mindset too, which I think is like, so such an amazing blessing for us to live in this timeframe where we can be exposed to so many different things just through, you know, a smartphone or a, you know, a web connection to be able to like hear, hear so many different perspectives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Technology is great. What's your thoughts on AI though and where it's going? I think it's fascinating.

[00:36:26] I think, um, it is one of those things that's like any tool, you know, if, if it's used for ill, like I'm, I'm, I'm terrified of the Orwellian, uh, big brother aspects of it. I mean, they're already doing that in China, like where they've got, you know, you, if you leave home without your phone in China, you will literally have through their facial recognition and all that different stuff. They'll have someone come in like gently escort you back to your house so that you have your phone on you so they can track you all the time. That's crazy.

[00:36:51] Um, but you know, AI is just going to level those things up, but it's, it's all about how it's going to be used. It's going to, uh, level up productivity. I love, um, Tom Bilyeu. If you guys are into podcasting, you know, Tom Bilyeu with the impact theory. I'm not familiar with that. Impact, impact theories is Tom Bilyeu is, is an amazing, he's an entrepreneur, self-made, um, guy who started with nothing. Uh, he and his partners founded Quest, um, protein bars and he ended up selling it as a billion dollar company.

[00:37:20] So now he's got the FU money. So he just goes and does, he started doing a podcast all again about like positivity, like, you know, encouraging, um, he does like a lot of, by taking the risks and entrepreneur incubators and things like that. He's just all about, you know, like the business mindset and success mindset. Um, but, but he, he's just a, um, amazing guy as far as like, you know, he talks to a lot of different people. He's a very, you know, middle of the road guy. And, and it's just fascinating how, you know, in so many different topics can be just discussed.

[00:37:50] So, yeah. I mean, I'll, I listen to motivational stuff probably on average three to four mornings out of the week for like the last three weeks I've been consistently doing that. And I've, I've went through a couple of different phases where I've done that. And anytime that I'm constantly listening to it, there's always like, I'm an opt, I'm already an optimistic person. Um, but there's all these little nuggets out there, uh, just little slight changes in

[00:38:18] perspective, like learning how, like just my posture can influence a yard of dogs, you know, like little things like that codes. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's very interesting. And what I noticed is, is sometimes I try to share this information because I think it's important to empower people. And some people, I feel like get a little thrown off by it. Like they don't want to hear the motivation. Sure.

[00:38:41] And, and I always find that interesting because anytime that I was truly dialed into the motivational stuff and it made me uncomfortable to where I didn't want to hear about it or this and that is because they were talking about my dumb ass. Exactly. It's pushing you to an edge. And I think that's oftentimes whether it's, um, in recovery or whatever, like if, if people are like, uh, resistant to it, it's because it's like their own personal boundary that they're, they're hitting up against.

[00:39:09] And, um, it, it, you know, they don't want, you know, sometimes they don't want to make that change because they're, they're uncomfortable with the idea of that what they're doing now isn't optimized for them. But, um, to go back to the AI, I think that's what Tom Billy was talking about. You know, he, he uses, um, chat GPT on a regular basis. He has the paid subscription one. Um, but talking about like, you know, the fact that we have the capacity to have a PhD

[00:39:35] in whatever subject you choose at your fingertips 24 seven. And so, you know, so it's, it's, again, it's like how you use it. Um, uh, AI, as far as like, I I've used chat GPT as far as like a copy editor, you know, doing emails or, you know, drafting documents, things like that. It's just, it's, it's amazing. And, um, my girlfriend, yeah, my girlfriend's gotten to the point with chat GPT, like where she's, um, like knows her personality and like what, what kind of things, how, how the voice she wants to put things into. And so she's really utilizing it for that.

[00:40:05] And, uh, like, you know, it levels up. Um, I was talking, listening to some guy talking today about like how, you know, AI can summarize a three hour podcast, like in the split second. So you get all the high level, um, points from the podcast that you can like distill, but without having to spend three hours listening to it per se. So, you know, but the other, the other drawback to AI is that it can make us lazier because, you know, you can use it for creativity, but you're, it almost can become a crutch where,

[00:40:34] where you, you're relying on it too much. Cause you're like, Oh, I'm just going to go plug this into, into the AI and get, you know, get something that's amazing. But, um, uh, you know, it's, it's still nasty in like early days for it. Um, so some people like they can tell if, you know, you put any email through chat GPT, because it'll come, you know, if you haven't honed it to your own voice, it can come across as like a, you know, Oh, this has been optimized through AI. But, so I think it's just, um, you know, one of those things like where it can be very

[00:41:05] scary because like, you know, I grew up, I don't know how many times I've seen the Terminator, but you know, my favorite movie of all time. Um, I can quote it. Which one's your favorite? Which one's your favorite album? The original. Okay. The first one I've seen probably like a dozen times or more. So T1 is great. Yeah. I grew up in the judgment day era. So that's my number one. That was cool. They're both one and two is fantastic. Yeah. And then like the, the hokey, um, uh, special effects during T1 are hilarious too, but weren't they still good? Like even Jurassic Park was pretty good.

[00:41:34] Like when he, that scene where he's cutting his eyeball out, you know, that was like epic shit in 1984. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, Schwarzenegger was just amazing the way he's deadpanned. He was so good. Yeah. I actually heard that James Cameron casted him to play Kyle Reese. And then when they started, you know, reading the script, like, wait a minute, we got to make a switch here. Interesting. He needs to play the Terminator. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm a huge nerd at that shit. I love pop coaching stuff like that too. Yeah. Yeah. You guys know who Chris Hardwick is? Oh yeah. He was, he was, he was a big podcaster in the early days too. Um, but I went to high school with that guy. Did you really? And he's amazing. Yeah. Really cool.

[00:42:04] What's he doing now? Um, he's hosting the wall and raising his, uh, daughter who just turned three. So yeah, he, he married a, uh, woman and they had their, you know, he's, he's my age. Um, and he, they had their baby, um, during COVID. And so now he's, he's got, he's worked very hard for it, but he did, you know, the nerdist podcast, uh, you know, built up a whole thing being on, on being nerdy about pop culture and like, um, you know, got all these different pod, you know, that was his podcast.

[00:42:33] And then he did, um, talking dead, which was like, you know, the after show, like, uh, discussion, um, for walking dead. Yeah. I think I watched some of that. Yeah. And then he did like talking bad too, which I like, um, breaking out is one of my favorite, favorite shows. That one was good. And it actually ended really good too. It did. That's, that's the thing. Yeah. Have you seen that? I've seen it, but I haven't finished it. Okay. So that's good. That's good. Like you with the Sopranos. I'm watching the Sopranos for the first time right now, but I love the Sopranos. I know how that works. I haven't, um, I've seen it.

[00:43:03] But I'm like partially into the Sopranos. My, my girlfriend lost interest in, so I haven't finished it. It's so good. Yeah. It was just so well done. Like, you know, for an American drama family series in the time that it took place, like David Chase, the way he wrote that show was amazing. And that was a groundbreaking. That's what got us into having Breaking Bad and, uh, you know, Dexter and all these like long form, um, series like that. So, uh, you know, amazing, amazing writing. And acting and all that stuff.

[00:43:29] But, um, Breaking Bad, Dexter, those, those kinds of shows, like if they're good, you can, you can rewatch them. I was so disappointed with Game of Thrones. Oh my gosh. That's season eight. I never got into it. Game of Thrones was amazing. That was so exciting. Yeah. That's how I felt about the walking dead though. Really? Dude, I haven't seen the walking dead. Like season four. I was like, eh. Really? Yeah. I just lost interest. And the walking dead is over, right? I think it's been over for a bit. Now it's just got the spinoffs. Now there's all the spinoffs, which is what Yellowstone is going to be doing. I don't know if you've watched Yellowstone.

[00:43:58] I love Yellowstone too, but my girlfriend, um, being veg, she couldn't handle the, um, she didn't like the way they, they weren't, they weren't shy about how they showed like how livestock is handled and stuff like that. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was very real with the way they filmed it. I feel like, which was good. It gives the viewer like a real experience. I love the character development. I liked, um, you know, that, that rustic kind of, you know, American pioneer kind of attitude. And so I, yeah, I know what you mean. Like the spinoffs, like 1923 and things like that. A lot of them are coming. The Sixers Ranch I heard is going to be a show with Rip and Beth. Oh, cool. Yeah.

[00:44:26] Which is great because everyone fell in love with Rip and Beth. Yeah. Those are good. Those are two of my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. And then Kevin Costner just kind of peaced out on the last season. Interesting. Okay. Spoiler alert there, but yeah. I mean, it's been happening. It's been happening. But yeah, good shows. Um, so for my day job, I, I oversee like big implementation change technology and AI is a big conversation with all that. And it's really interesting having these AI conversations.

[00:44:51] So, um, as far as like AI art and making like procedurally generated video games, like I feel like there is kind of a risk to some people's jobs and in different, um, uh, industries as well. But I feel like the, the one true way to foolproof have job security with AI growing is to learn

[00:45:15] it and actively use it because it will empower users to work differently. Sure. And so like it's here to stay level. Yeah. It levels you up if you use it correctly. And just like everything, it always changes. Life never stays the same, no matter how comfy it is and how much you like this phase. It's going to end eventually. So it's like, we, we have to like stay ready to change. Well, think about when they first put in like self-checkout registers at the grocery store. I was like, oh, it's taking jobs.

[00:45:46] What was the Bill Burr bit on that? Yeah. Oh yeah. Where he's like, I'm that dude. I don't work here. It's like, what? I did my job. I loaded everything in the cart. Yeah. I came up, I picked up what I wanted. I work here. I didn't know I was also a grocery store worker. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, through time, right. Innovation. We see even with AI, like when spell check came up, I remember people griping about that and be like, well, now people aren't going to know how to spell words. Predicted text. Right. All that kind of stuff. So we're just kind of seeing, I think now at an elevated speed, you know, of, of route to market with AI.

[00:46:13] But I think, you know, the area that concerns me is when it gets involved with health, you know, a lot of what this, this big billion dollar investment is with this AI health thing in Texas, when you're relying completely and taking that human element out. Now these are going to be, you know, the pharmaceutical makers and a lot of that's going through AI. I'm not an expert in any of that, but it can be concerning. Sure. It's again, um, nuanced words. AI can look at things and like, um, run a gajillion experiments without doing the,

[00:46:43] the work that it would take a lab, you know, like years to do. It can do it in like, you know, a fraction of the time. Sure. Um, so it can, it can level up things like that. The, the, the main, uh, professions that I think it's coming for are like your accounting, um, your, your law, your law kind of things like that, where, where before you needed to be credentialed and, and, uh, go through, you know, have a lot of experience in that. Whereas like if the AI can be good enough at it, it's like, you know, why would you go to an attorney when you can plug it in to an AI and get it kicked out in a

[00:47:13] matter of minutes for, for a fraction of the cost. No, that's a good point. Yeah. It's going to, can I think it's going to, cause originally they were like, oh, it's going to, it's going to affect all these, you know, blue collar jobs. But, um, you know, there's lots of things you're going to need. I like the saying, you need like fingers and eyes to be able to do it. And, um, you know, while AI can, um, do things a lot better, I was listening to this fascinating guy who I like on YouTube called Doonberg, who's in the geopolitical and

[00:47:38] energy space, but he said, you know, he was talking about, um, cause it was similar discussion. Like, you know, is AI going to, going to ruin the world? And it was like, you know, people want that, that human interactions. And he was using the example of like chess, like a computer can beat a human at chess, like no problem. But now there's like this whole niche where people will spend hours watching humans play chess because it's unpredictable. You know, the, the AI or the computer is always going to make the most optimal choice.

[00:48:06] Whereas humans, it's like, it's unpredictable. Like, what are they going to do? So, so he was describing it in his terms, like there's always going to be that as things get more and more perfect with AI and those sorts of things, there'll, there'll be a demand. And at least in his opinion, that, that there will be, you know, have a human element to it because it's, it's the unpredictability of our, uh, cognition and how, how we process things. So that's an interesting take on it. Yeah. Especially with the chess thing, like, and just people do like to watch other people do

[00:48:35] things now, like even this podcasting stuff, you know, when it first came out before we got into it, people like, you're just going to sit there and watch two people have a conversation that, you know, we don't know anything about or whatever. People thought it was kind of like, why would you do that? You know, and this has kind of been a lost art of just getting together and having real conversations when everyone's just so buried in their phone all the time. Right. Yeah. So normalizing this stuff, I think is also one of the missions, you know, with our, with our show. And it's just great. It's, it's the lost art of, of shooting the shit about the Terminator and AI and God knows what else. Exactly.

[00:49:02] And that, that long form, you know, conversational podcast, I think that's one of the, I mean, Joe Rogan is probably the goat for the podcast, but it's because he's, he, it's, it's how he leads the conversation and he's not like, you know, throwing, you know, gotcha moment things at it. It's just like how it naturally evolves and organically. And that's what makes it more enjoyable to listen to. It's not like this artificial, like, oh, he's going to ask this, this, and this kind of the conversation can go off in multiple tangents.

[00:49:29] So yeah, that's what people like instead of your Jimmy Fallon, you know, five seconds, five minutes of fame on his show. Precisely. You get three hours of juice from a celebrity you've watched forever or whatever, you know, it's like when Zuckerberg was talking about Zuckerberg was a great app. I haven't seen that one yet. He was saying some stuff that I was like, man, we knew this was going on. He was talking about all the crazy stuff. Yeah. Yeah. With all the censorship and everything. With the censorship. Cause I mean, he basically came out and said, we're reversing a lot of that policy. You know, he gave Elon a lot of praise with what he's doing over there at X with this, you know, less censorship.

[00:49:58] You know, we're, we're seeing a big shift happening. I think our, we would be in a completely different society if Elon had not bought X and, you know, love him or hate him. He was able to facilitate that, that change, that sea change as far as like, no, we're, we're not going to quash free speech. You know, I'm not a, uh, you know, that, that's the, the beauty of our country is that we have the first amendment and, you know, it doesn't mean that you have to be on board

[00:50:24] with what, you know, you have to be able to, um, allow the, the, the idiot, you know, neo-Nazis to march parade through a Jewish neighborhood, but also, you know, have the fact that you can't like, uh, that allows us to have free speeches versus like, you know, Oh, well that, that, that is evil. And it's like, it comes to the point of like, well, who, who decides what's good and bad? Right. Because that's the dangerous thing that I think that we kind of teetered towards during

[00:50:50] COVID, which it was like, I always thought that the, you know, fascist, uh, inclination was going to come from the right. Like the, you know, the jackbooted Nazis. And then it, during the COVID phenomenon, I was like, Oh my God, these, I was lifelong Democrat. And all of a sudden it's like the, the, the left seemed to just like go so far totalitarian is like, you either agree with us or you're an evil person. Right. Like that's not how I grew up, grew up here. So it's been interesting. It was a very eyeopening experience. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:17] And talking about this subject specifically has, has gotten things demonetized. I was going to say, yeah. Like we, we got booted off of X. We got kicked off X. Well, that's back when it was Twitter for talking this type of, you know, and, and we say we're not medical experts here. These are opinions. I got myself in a lot of trouble. COVID. It's a, it's crazy. Just saying my thoughts on it. And that was, that's why it's so scary. Cause it was so chilling. It was like, it showed like how quickly things can, you know, even in a beautiful democracy

[00:51:46] like America is like how things can go skew totalitarian very quickly. So. Well, it's, I guess it's because it's, it's just there already and it's hiding better. Is that, is that why, you know, cause I, I feel like, you know, if the narrative causes division between citizens, then it gets perpetualized. But if you switch a narrative to empowerment of citizens and like, you know, you don't need

[00:52:15] alcohol, you don't need pharmaceuticals. Like I got over opiates. So I'm like very anti that whole thing. Like, and like, there's natural fixes to a lot of stuff and like, they don't want that out there, you know? And, and I've even heard like, there's like, cause my dad has cancer. And so I'm like finding all this cancer stuff. And my wife like does cancel research stuff. And she's like, did you see this thing where this guy basically like found that if you mix

[00:52:42] flaxseed oil with cottage cheese, like in a certain dose, then it like helps cure cancer. But then he disappeared all of a sudden, like, like people come up with this stuff. So you have to be careful about what you're truthful about. And I think if you attack the big money, then, then that's when they get upset. But if it's causing division in the society, that's okay. Well, that's exactly what happened and is happening. I mean, people are absolutely outraged over what's going on with Doge. Exactly. You know, I mean, they're so upset about it, which I don't understand because to me,

[00:53:11] it's like, those are the things this one guy's take is like, so you're more upset that Doge is, is uncovering like, you know, horrible misuse, misallocation of funds and basically the money laundering, you know, it's like, oh, we're going to fund it through USAID or whatever and put it into all these like very, you know, focused ideological pet projects. You're, you're more upset about it being shown into the disinfectant of sunlight versus

[00:53:36] the fact that it, the, this graft was happening, like that our, our, our taxpayer dollars were being used to fund things that, that like, you know, it's like a, you know, 80, 20, uh, issues. It's like, most people are like, why aren't we taking care of stuff here? Where, you know, I agree that we can do good in, in, with our foreign policy, but it's like, it's weird at how, how people are going.

[00:54:00] So, um, against, uh, what Doge is uncovering versus like the fact that the stuff exists, you know, it's like, that's, what's alarming to me. I think that's more of the faces behind it. They just are not going to get behind Elon. They're not going to get behind president Trump, no matter what the case is. But for me, I like the transparency, you know, and seeing what's been going on. I think that's been eyeopening for me. I mean, like $20 million to Sesame street programs overseas or something like that. Just so many ridiculous things. This whole list came out and they're just getting started. Exactly.

[00:54:30] You know, so I'm optimistic, you know, I try to be, I'm not a pessimist and regardless who's in the white house, we got to remain optimistic and there is good things happen. And I'll just say, uh, like I've always voted, but last year, last, uh, presidency, I did not vote because I didn't believe in either, either person. I'm not a fan of Trump, but I'm not going to sit here and waste my energy being upset and like sending hateful energy toward that whole thing.

[00:54:58] Cause I feel like that's a waste of my energy. And as Americans, we should all want whoever's in office to succeed. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's where I was going to go with that. Exactly. Yeah. And, and, uh, I'm not the biggest fan of Trump's personality either. Um, I feel like he is, has been much changed by nearly having his head blown off. That was nuts. That was, uh, you know, an inflection point in this country that had it, had, had it going the other way. I think we'd be having a different conversation if we'd be even having a conversation right now.

[00:55:28] Um, but, uh, I, I loved the fact that, um, and again, this, the guy, Doonberg, I was discussing, he pointed out that like, these are all former Democrats that have gotten so frustrated with how the democratic party has been showing up that they're now like, you know, I don't, I don't consider them myself a Republican, but I, I align much more with people that are like, you know, more for truth and transparency and, you know, government efficiency and different things like that.

[00:55:55] I'm thrilled that, that Tulsi Gabbard got confirmed today. She's confirmed. Yeah. Um, RFK is up tomorrow. I think, no, I think they're discussing him today too. Is he okay? And, uh, Kash Patel. And Kash Patel, yeah. But, uh, you know, I'm, I'm really, um, excited that also to have RFK. Me too. You know, as, as a, as a person who can affect change. Like, I don't know why we are allowed to be fed toxins that are not allowed in our neighbors

[00:56:22] to the North and Canada or in Europe, but here you can go in and eat food. That's like slathered in seed oils that they use to lubricate machinery and be fed all these petrochemicals. And then wonder why our obesity rates are so high or autism rates are so high. Our cancer rates are so high. And it's like, you see it as, as I love the, it's such a stark contrast when you look at people on the beach in the fifties and sixties. And then when, when all these like seed oils and, and, you know, petrochemicals became like

[00:56:51] legalized in the U S for, for profitable reasons, all of a sudden our obesity rates just started spiking. It's like, why, you know, like 70% of young American men, um, are not eligible for military service because they're obese. You know, it's like, it's like, it's just, and then again, during COVID, like the correlation between obesity and, uh, negative outcomes. If you've got COVID, it was just so sad. That was the number one comorbidity would be that, that you were, you're morbidly obese

[00:57:18] or obese in general, and that it would cause like wreak all this havoc in your body. So yeah, I'm optimistic that we get to the bottom a lot. I'm excited that, you know, we could have some changes that would like, uh, you know, make it make America healthy again. And like where we, we, we ban seed oils, we ban like artificial dyes, do all these things that like the rest of the world seems or advanced world seems to have gotten on board with. And it's like, why are we still allowed to do that?

[00:57:43] It just seems like a crime against our citizenry that, that, you know, like I'm more, uh, hesitant to go out and eat. I was, I was going to go to noodles the other day. We used to be one of my, you know, it's, it's easy fast food. And as I, but I Googled up, you know, what do they cook their, their food in? What kind of oils do they cook their food in? And it's all seed oils. You know, so it's like, I'm not, I don't want to. Panda express too. Please tell me now. I know. Yeah. I don't want to like dump all this inflammatory agents into my body. Like at least twice a month. Sure. Just like a complete.

[00:58:12] And I believe in, you know, like moderation. Yeah. I don't think you need to be like a, a, a monk about it, but yeah. You know, the more you learn, the more you learn. And it's like, you understand the, like how, um, you know, fundamental it is for, for our health is like, you know, what you put into your body. So. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Let's hope he gets confirmed. I think he will. I think the hard part's over for him. And again, the pushback, you know, it was just, I listened to a lot of the grilling and you're going to get that on both sides of the aisle, of course,

[00:58:39] but you know, just any and everything they can to try to, you know, not progress any of these, you know, appointed positions. And it's all tied into the money of the big farm and big ag and all these different things that like, these are trillions of dollars of, uh, money. And I think that's what the people are losing their mind about Doge too, is just like, it was just a, you know, regardless of who was in the office, it was just this like constant cashflow for people who, who was like, you know, I don't like the term deep state,

[00:59:05] but unelected bureaucrats who can, you know, put their thumb on the scale of which way they want things to go with that, but they were not elected. So yeah, I'm optimistic for change. I think the way, I think that's this, this was a big change election, you know, love, love, whether you're happy with the outcome or not. Um, I'm so thrilled that it was a majority popular election. It wasn't like, you know, Oh, well it was so close. We can't tell.

[00:59:32] It was a definitive, like the direction we're going isn't working. We need to change something. And I, and I really heartened that, um, you know, the whole thing with the way that they gas lit us with, um, you know, Biden's fine. And then all of a sudden it was like, he, when he went on the stage and I, and everyone around him knew that that was going to happen. And, but when he disintegrated on that first debate and people like, Oh my God, this is horrible. It's like, this has been going on for four years. Yeah.

[00:59:59] And then, and then to have, you know, the, the, the part, the party that was saying, Oh, our democracy is a threat. And then they just like insert Harris into the, the presidency nomination without any, any primary, nothing. She never won a single primary vote. Yeah. The hypocrisy is what I find alarming. Yeah. And that, that to me is, is insulting. Yeah. As a, as a, that's why I was like, I was like, fuck it. I totally appreciate that. Yeah. So I do have something to say for, for both sides here.

[01:00:29] Okay. And that is that this life always is full of chaos. It's always full of chaos. When Biden was in, it was full of chaos. All the presidents, every single president that's ever existed, there's chaotic things, there's change happening. And it's like, you have to find peace in the mayhem. And that's like a, that's a personal choice. And to get to that choice, you have to allow yourself to be and stop allowing all of the

[01:00:57] external influences to control you. True. So I agree. That's my piece of advice to anybody who's like posting all these, Oh, it's going to be a hard four years. Well, with that attitude, for sure, it is going to be a hard four years. Maybe you can change your attitude and then actually change your perspective and enjoy what, what we have. Cause like, it's not going to change. The president is the president for the next four years. So you're just want to choose to be miserable and upset about that. That does not make sense to me. One of my buddies pointed out that like, he got this from the, um, the book, the habits

[01:01:26] of highly successful people. It's like, you know, if, if you're spending your time just like, you know, worrying about like, Oh, this person's in charge now, my life is going to be shit. It's like, well, you're going to get what you, what you put out there. And it's like, is that the best use of your time or, or should you be focusing more on like your things, you know, that other things you have control over and things you don't have control over and the, the, um, wisdom to know the difference between the two. Yeah.

[01:01:54] So, um, you know, having that, that, uh, taking in and also taking like accountability and, and agency in your own life. Like these are things I have control over. Like I'm, I'm frustrated with how things are going at the business, but it's like, I, I can't control, you know, the macro, um, economic conditions, nor can I control directly what the city is doing, but all I can control is like, are my employees getting what the resources that they need?

[01:02:22] Am I, am I providing the support so that they can create a, you know, welcoming retail environment? I was so happy. Um, I, I told you guys when I was coming in, I'm three weeks out today from getting my hip replaced. So I was two weeks out of the shop, which is a big deal for me. Um, as a small business owner. And when I, I stopped in on Friday last weekend, I was just thrilled. Like I, you could tell it's like not a Lord of the flies situation where, you know, that, that can go either way.

[01:02:48] Um, but I have such good employees that, um, I came in and I was just like blown away, like how well they've been using their time, you know, because if you're, if I'm not there, my main thing is like, how are my employees using their downtime? And when I come in and see that the shop's beautifully merchandised and it's clean and it looks like somebody, you know, did things purposely and thoughtfully, it was just really, really good. And that's something I have control over. That's my little bit of the universe that I have control over.

[01:03:15] And, you know, in spite of the downturn in foot traffic and things like that, I'm still wanting everyone who does come in that door to be wowed with the experience that they have in the shop. So yeah. Well, and that, that does give you a sense of, of accomplishment. So yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. It's going to turn around this year. Yeah. I'm hopeful. Yeah. I'm, I'm optimistic. Like I said, I'm, I'm keep on the sunny side of the street kind of guy. And I'm thinking by, by Q2, Q3 this year, um, you know, when, when these, these things

[01:03:42] and there, there's a big lag effect as far as like, you know, people are throwing shade on, on the administration where it's like, they've been in office for three weeks, guys. Like it's going to take, it's like trying to turn an aircraft carrier. You're not going to turn it on a dime. Yeah. So, um, it's going to take a minute for, for new, new policies to, to free up, um, commerce and things like that. So that people, cause I, I just, that's what I noticed is like coming into Q4 last year. People were just like, when, when things are uncertain, people, people pull back on their spending.

[01:04:10] And, uh, I'm, I'm hopeful that like, you know, when, when things are going, what swimmingly economically people aren't, aren't bickering about like little, little side issues here and there. They, they, they, everyone kind of seems to be more optimistic and, and, and congenial than, than when things are, you know, if, if, if things are tight, you know, that's when you get more, um, you know, relationship. It's like, yeah, because if, if money is tight, it, it, it creates a lot of stress on everybody,

[01:04:38] you know, from your, from your, your close personal relationships up to your, you know, your bigger economic issues. So it's too true. I feel like we're really just scratching the surface on this conversation. So we generally, if we, if we really like who we have on, we always want to get them back in. Sure. And so we're going to keep you in the wheelhouse. Okay. I'd love to come back. Yeah. We like to get like an annual touch point to see, see how the year has been treating. And then, you know, people who listen, they're like, what's going on with Rod, you know? Sure.

[01:05:07] And then of course, uh, you have our support for a dog savvy, uh, everyone should check out dog savvy on Larimer street. We're going to leave some links for that below. Same with the GoFundMe. We talked about kind of, um, earlier on the episode, how there's light at the end of this tunnel and you can help the company see the light. Yeah. And, you know, we are so grateful for our customers and, you know, we, um, I'm so proud of our grooming staff as well, because, uh, we have pivoted as I'm sure your wife has

[01:05:35] told you that we do, um, fear-free gentle touch grooming, um, humanity over vanity. We are there to steward the dogs through what for them is a wholly unnatural and stressful experience and kind of make a cozy, calm environment so that we guide them through, as opposed to just like treating them like a car going through a car wash. Uh, you know, we treat, we are present there for the dogs to tie back to the original part of the discussion. You know, you, you, you, if you're not present with the dogs, they, they feel it.

[01:06:02] And then that they're going to be more stressed and resistant to the, to the grooming process. So yeah, just really proud of my grooming staff and so grateful for, for all of our customers. So. Absolutely. Terrific. Well, great business. Wish you continued success. Really appreciate it guys. Yeah. This was a great combo. So thanks for your time. Uh, and thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. It's, this is how we do a podcast. That's it. Yeah. And thank you for being a podcast listener as well.

[01:06:28] Um, I'm grateful for the, for the medium because it's just like, what, what did I used to do with my time before, before I could kill a couple hours on a podcast? Yeah. I'm starting to get into the audio books, but Hey, we, we're probably going to keep talking a little bit. Right. Mike's go off. Great conversation. And, uh, we look forward to talking with you again. I'd be happy to come back. So absolutely. Awesome. We'll get you back in the next year. So everybody out there, uh, Kevin got something to say about happy Friday. Yes. We'll see you on happy Friday tomorrow. Thanks for supporting this YouTube channel. Mash that subscribe button. Follow us on whatever listening.

[01:06:58] Uh, platform that you're on. We certainly appreciate it. Be good to yourselves. You deserve it.