Keri Cotterman | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #315

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe. But yeah, it's a fun industry. You get to meet and exchange stories with really cool people. You know, three years go by and then Keri Cotterman shows back up on episode 315. Let's do it. So exciting to have 315 episodes. It is.

[00:00:30] And I don't know if we really talked about your podcast too much last time. How many episodes? What's your threshold right now? Didn't have it last time that we were here. So we just started it. It's called Two Brave Unicorns and we like to highlight people, groups and organizations that are making change through innovation in some way. And so we've had like the first ever chief scientist of Space Force came on. Oh, wow.

[00:00:56] I'm like a total nerd. So I have this like very kind of eclectic group of people in my life experiences. So I worked in space and aerospace and defense for a while doing like marketing and comms for them. So I got to know him really well. He's very interesting. And then we had a data scientist on. And then my partner, Jill, is the kind of the equivalent of my experience, but in production.

[00:01:24] So she was actually I tell everybody this and she gets so embarrassed. But her her she was at the VMAs when Kanye stole Taylor's Moon Man. Oh, really? Didn't that was a viral moment. Didn't he save her right there? Like with all these conspiracies, like apparently he like saved her. Really? From what? From what? From Beyonce. Oh, yeah. I never heard that. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, because he went up there and started talking about Beyonce immediately. Yes.

[00:01:51] And how she should have won it or something. And like how Adele would like she would go up there and remember how Adele stopped making music. Like she just like stopped even though she was like this number one. But I thought she stopped because she had a medical issue in her throat. So I think like they didn't know if she could ever sing again. Oh, I don't know. That's out of my league. Yeah. I'll try not to jump into the conspiracy super early on this. So, yeah, I love it. Yeah. So so sorry to interrupt. No, that's OK. I don't know.

[00:02:18] But I if there's a conspiracy there, I want to know it. There's always one somewhere. Right. For sure. So apparently Kanye is not as crazy like and he has actually been telling the truth all these years. And then there's like this one conspiracy that there's this one like mental health and fitness coach in Hollywood that is actually like a CIA operative. And they can like prescribe. Oh, you need these kind of drugs and like that.

[00:02:46] And then they can like slip stuff in to control people or like make them go crazy. So who knows how deep that rabbit hole goes? Well, that goes back to the 70s because they were like lighting people up with PCP and crazy drugs that kind of get back then. Yeah. Quaaludes to get them to tell the truth.

[00:03:11] Right. So if they were like being interrogated or whatever, they would give them drugs. They would give them a lot of drugs in order to make sure that they were telling the truth or to get the truth out of them. So it probably worked. I'm sure. It's an interesting way to go about interrogating somebody. You make them feel good. Yeah. But or terrified or terrified or both or both. Yeah. I mean, because you just like lose your mind. Right.

[00:03:35] And then they like create every sensory situation where it's like auditory visual, like your body, you're cold, you're hot. Like every sense of your body is like triggered in some way. Hmm. And then I know that you were talking about how the podcast came to be. But since we're already at the top of the rabbit hole. Yes. And you did all these comms and all this kind of stuff for, you know, large departments.

[00:04:03] Do you believe that aliens are real? I believe that it's really. Or that they're involved. Involved. I don't know about involved. I think it's really arrogant to believe that we're like the only species out there. Yeah. That seems not likely. But I don't know if they've ever been to Earth. Yeah. Because I feel like if they came to Earth, that would be for a nefarious reason. And like our resources would be depleted or, you know, I think we would know.

[00:04:31] I would agree with that because, I mean, you know, the White House allegedly released some files. I mean, it looked like video game footage from like 91. Right. Like, what are we working with here? Right. And it's like, oh, here we go. Here it is. And so we've been seeing this. We've already seen that. There's nothing new going on here. So I don't know. It's kind of like a look the other way thing. But you worked in politics for a long time. I'm sure you saw some things. I did. Yeah. I saw a lot of things. It's kind of like. So I did my first campaign in 2004.

[00:04:56] 2004 I was in college and I was kind of like without direction in college. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I, through a series of things, kind of ended up being recruited into a campaign office. And I walked in there and like everything that everyone had always told me about my personality to like tone down or you might want to mellow out a little bit. Like they were like, gin it up. Like this is exactly what we need here. Yeah. So I was in college and I like found a plate.

[00:05:26] I found a home, kind of. You know, like I really enjoyed the work. And then you go on a few more cycles and you learn it's a business. And then you see how the sausage is made. And it's hard to stay in that industry. I think a lot of people turn to drugs and alcohol in that industry. They do. Right? I mean, just because you see it's brutal. Like you were saying before we jumped in the air, it's like a dog fight every day. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's like a, it's like a mental dog fight. Right?

[00:05:54] Because you're not just thinking like what, it is actually a lot like football because I grew up on football fields. My grandfather was a coach. My brother's a coach. He's been like the Colorado State coach for several years in a row. And like we, my dad was really into football with Oklahoma. So it was very much in my family. And I think people don't really appreciate how much strategy goes into football. They think like, oh, it's just this game on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Monday, whatever.

[00:06:21] But you actually have to really think about, okay, when do I let my strengths show? When do I let my weaknesses show? Even if I might lose a game to sacrifice three games down the line. Right? So it's a lot like that. You have to think about that because it's not just what is your opponent doing? It's what are you doing? What can you control? What can you not control? And the biggest thing is just keeping people on task because it's so much pontification. Like, oh, if this person doesn't run, then this is going to happen.

[00:06:51] Or if this person runs, then this is going to happen. And it's like, deal with what you have in front of you. Pontification? Yeah. Like pontificate. You know, you just like. Pontificate. Yeah. Maybe I made up that word. Pontification. It kind of made sense. It made sense in the sentence. Yeah. Yeah. I do that a lot. Yeah. But you just sit around and pontificate. And it's like, it's such a waste of time. Or planification. Planification. That would be better. That would be better. George W. Bush, my favorite. Strategery. Strategery. Yes. That was my favorite. We all knew what he meant. Yes. Right? It's fun. It's true.

[00:07:21] Yeah. So comparing politics to football plays. Yes. And like, that makes sense because you do have to be extremely strategic. Do you, what is, what is the motivation behind politics? Like, like, is there one core, like, fundamental? Yeah. There is. I think there is. I think it's self-interest. Okay.

[00:07:47] I don't, and I don't mean that to sound like really dark or negative or like cynical, but it's just like in most industries and most things you can expect and rely upon the fact that people will act in their own self-interest. And I think you see that play out time and again in politics because we don't have term limits. So it's all about getting reelected either every two years for Congress or six for Senate or four for president. Right?

[00:08:14] So you're constantly having to placate your donors and your supporters while trying to enact policy that's good for the country. And those things are usually at cross purposes. Yeah. Would you agree that what happened with Thomas Massey is a good example of that? Yeah. That's a crazy campaign because they spent, I think it was like $39 million. It was one of the most funded campaigns for like a congressional district ever. Ever. Yeah. And there's a mission behind that.

[00:08:43] There's a mission behind that for sure. Yeah. And for that race to be as close as it was with $39 million is also very telling because it should have been like, if you give somebody $39 million in a congressional race, like you should walk away with like 50 points. So I do think that's also pretty telling. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't expecting to go too far into politics, but since we were there. I know. We're like down the ravel. Now we're in it. Yeah. I was just curious what you thought about that because once I saw what was going on, it's

[00:09:11] like you saw how this guy voted, which is against the current agenda. Let's get him out of here. Yeah. With the most money ever. So I don't know. But it is crazy because on the conservative side, there's something called a freedom score. And he had one of the highest freedom scores in Congress. Which is interesting. Right. So it's, you know, I think, I think that personal vendettas in politics used to play out behind closed doors and now you're just seeing it. It's just out in the open. It's just out in the open.

[00:09:38] So I don't know how truly different it is now than it has been before, but people are more aware of it and it's on social media and it's happening in a way that any American could come and see it. Right. But a lot of Americans don't opt into it. So. Or they just kind of go along with the narrative that best fits their algorithm. Yes. Right. Not looking at another side. Just one person said it's got to be true. Yeah. I think that's a big problem as well.

[00:10:08] Well, the algorithm is a huge problem. Oh yeah. Because it's just feet. You just feed the monster. It's propaganda. Yes. It's a propaganda machine. And like, so like TikTok has propaganda, all of them, everything meta. And I feel like that's why, you know, America was upset about TikTok is because we weren't consuming the propaganda that they made for us. And now we were doing it from like a foreign. So it's just really interesting.

[00:10:33] You know, and then we have AI as well, where it's like, okay, somebody gets caught doing something and they're like, oh, that could be AI video. Instant scapegoat. Like how are we supposed to tell? Right. And it's getting so good as well. And that's just what the public has access to already. And you know, what is the government like 10, 15 years ahead, like technology wise, it's something like that is what I've heard. Yeah.

[00:10:59] And I mean, you're relying upon Congress to regulate an industry that they don't understand. Right. Like they're just becoming proficient in texting. Like they don't do their own tweeting. They don't do their X thing, whatever we say now, but they don't do, they're not on their own social media. Right. Like other people are doing that for them. And then you haul, you know, all these tech CEOs up to Congress and it's like, how do we fix a problem?

[00:11:28] Well, you wouldn't ask big tobacco how to get people to quit smoking. Right. You wouldn't do that. And like, that's what they're trying to do. And with this AI thing, it's going to be, it's going to be, they don't understand it. Right. You have to like really understand something that technical and that complicated to regulate it. It's a good point. I mean, the Pope commented on this week. Yeah. Did you see that? He's like, this is not good. I think everybody knows that. It's crazy. So I, I play around with it all the time. I'm, I mean, for marketing and stuff.

[00:11:57] And I sometimes have a hard time communicating my like creative ideas. And so I love, I love it for that reason, because I can like say something to it and say, help me explain this or make this, you know, show what this could look like. And so I recently uploaded my voice, five seconds worth of my voice, mind you. Only five. Only five seconds.

[00:12:20] That's to Artlist, which is a platform that has a bunch of different AI platforms within it. And I can tell it to say anything and it sounds exactly like me. That's concerning. With only five seconds. With only five seconds. That's really concerning. So you could pull anybody's voice and all you have to do is say, check a box that you have permission to upload that voice. Which anybody can do. Which anybody can do.

[00:12:46] And I mean, you could pull a voice, a recording off of social, off of a movie, off of anything. And you can have people saying anything. Boy, we got seven years of our voices on the internet. We're in big trouble. Yeah, exactly. If they wanted to. If they wanted to. If they wanted to. It's there. But yeah, how do you, how do you regulate that? You don't because you have to understand it first. Right. And we don't. And we don't. Yeah. So what's up? And look, I know we're not talking about what you came here to talk about. That's okay. We'll get there. We'll get there.

[00:13:15] I'm just like kind of curious about this because I can tell your level of expertise like you're well spoken on this. So data centers. Yeah. And the amount of water that they consume. Why don't we build data centers in Antarctica? Is it because like the Darien Gap or the Drake Passage or whatever that is where it's like we can't run wires there? Or like why don't we build them like all in Canada? Like, you know, if cooling it is the biggest issue.

[00:13:45] So it makes me feel or you could even like make a data center in space or I don't know if it could do what it needs to do wirelessly. So they don't know yet. And the reason that like data centers are what they are presently is because they have to plug in to, you know, cable. Like have you guys ever heard of or read that book? The World is Flat. It's like an old book, like early aughts.

[00:14:12] But it was all about how like the fiber cable and the cable was laid throughout the world to make the internet that like made the world flat. Right. So that we all could like be on the same level. And so that infrastructure is what data science data, sorry, data centers plug into. And so there are a lot, I know of a lot of people that are trying to build them without water with an internal cooling system.

[00:14:38] But I think all of this is going to like change big time when nuclear fusion is a thing. And they can do like computing at like less than a quarter of the speed that they're doing it now. That's when it becomes self-aware almost. Yeah. Because that's where I feel like we're at that integration point where it's becoming self-aware. It's already starting to defy commands, right? For years. For years.

[00:15:05] I mean, I always kind of reference like Microsoft spellcheck is one of the first AIs that we integrated on a daily basis. Self-checkout, stuff like that. And it's just slowly and then quickly and now rapidly is a part of every fabric of what we do day in and day out. Yes. Right. And so where does it go from here? Yeah.

[00:15:54] So that makes AI kind of really scary. That's a good reference. Yeah. That makes sense. But have you seen that movie Lucy with Scarlett Johansson? I saw that one. I don't think I saw that. That's how I feel about AI. So like spoiler alert if you're ready to watch Lucy. It's an older movie, but she like morphs into everything and at the end of the movie. And like, that's how I picture AI. It's like, it's just going to morph into everything because it's, it's just, how could it not? How could it not? It already is.

[00:16:24] I mean, it's taking over jobs and things of that nature, but eventually I feel like we're going to hit a point where it's like, okay, now we need people again. We can't just have robots do everything. Yeah. So there's a really interesting study I mentioned that I did stuff in space. So that was like in line with defense, like the Space Force and stuff. And the question that they were really trying to figure out is at what point can you, there's something called HIML, right? There's my nerds coming out and it's human in the loop.

[00:16:53] And right now we have human in the loop in AI because we're, we are telling it what to do, right? It's not telling us what to do. We are telling it what to do. And so in the military, they think about like how, if they could run, you know, AI could tell you what to do that would save the most lives and have the most optimal outcome. Like, do you just trust it? Like at what point does a human have to be in that loop to trust that information? Yeah.

[00:17:19] And then the more that you're using AI for critical thinking, then the less critical thinking skills you have to make those type of decisions. Right. So it's, we utilize it. Like AI has a lot of practical applications and it's extremely useful. But at my day job, I do a lot of organizational type of messaging.

[00:17:44] And I like to compose those messages myself opposed to being like, Hey, I'm trying to reach out. Like occasionally I'll, I'll use AI to, to spit something out for me and like that, that I could work with. But I fear for the long, long-term impact, just like they were doing a study on students who grew up like in the nineties or eighties or anytime before computers were in schools.

[00:18:08] And the retention rate was much higher reading books and taking notes, handwritten opposed to everything digital on a laptop and writing, typing your notes. Like the retention rates have went down noticeably since we've went digital in the schools. And so like, just with that as an example alone on a study that's already been conducted, you know, like how does this AI stuff play out in 10 years from now?

[00:18:36] Like, like, like are people going to still want to paint something or like make music or, you know, write their own book or song? Like a lot of people are just feeding stuff through AI nowadays and it's taking away humans' creativity. And it's kind of, that's a concern of mine. So I think like there's something that you can look at that maybe would give you hope.

[00:19:00] So, you know, when social media first came to be, it was like, okay, are we going to totally lose our ability to have conversations and relate to people in the real world? And there's this huge trend and transition happening in marketing right now, which is that purchasers of products are no longer willing to just buy from a social media profile.

[00:19:26] Like they want to have in-person immersive experiences with that brand. So you see like Coachella, right? Coachella had a bunch of pop-ups and it's like, if you didn't take pictures of the pop-ups, you weren't at Coachella. And you see it with Skims and the Nike collab where they literally put yoga classes in the middle of the store so that people can connect with the brand and with each other.

[00:19:53] And so to me, that's something that has come completely full circle. And so I don't know that AI wouldn't do the same thing because like right now it's very novel and, you know, people who have never had any AI ML experience can get on ChatGPT or Claude or whatever and be amazed at how it works, right? Right.

[00:20:16] But I think that the soul is what it is and I can't imagine that you would have people just like forego their creativity because that type of stuff is what feeds your soul. It is. And now we're starting to see AI music become like in the top 20 on the charts. Apparently there was somebody here in Denver that we were talking with last week. We had an artist on and he was telling us that there was a Denver AI musician that is like trending around the world. Because people don't know it's not real. People don't know it's not real.

[00:20:46] Yeah, because I feel like you – society craves authenticity and even owning your mistakes and failing. And you can't – unless at some point AI can replicate that, like the actual authentic AI. Like, I don't know.

[00:21:09] It's just – it's interesting seeing like the Matrix and all of the Terminator and like all these movies that – It's foreshadowing. It feels like, yeah, it's coming true almost. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. Concerns with AI but also one quote that I really feel like also gives it hope and thank you for sharing that hopeful story because you are right. There's a human element which is strictly human and we crave that as that species.

[00:21:36] But the people who use AI will continue to have their jobs and, you know, understand what they're doing opposed to people who just don't want to touch it, don't want anything to do with it. I would say that those people who want to stay in the dark about it are probably at more risk than those leaning into it to a certain extent. For sure. And I think it's just inevitable that they're all going to become ad platforms at the end of the day because you've seen that.

[00:22:06] I mean that's what happened with social media, right? Like they were a purist and we are not going to do that. And then they monetized data. And, you know, what like concerns me with my background is how are political campaigns for one going to get in the AI answer, right? Because you're not – it's difficult to get in the answer, right? So how do you get in the answer? How many turns does it take?

[00:22:33] So a turn is if you give AI a prompt and it answers you, that's a turn. How many turns does it take before they tell you who to vote for? Yeah, that's a good point. And then who's paying the money to feed the algorithm to push the names? Exactly. Exactly. So – That's the problem. It's not going to be long. I mean, Chad, I can't remember if it was perplexity maybe was talking about how they're already going to have to introduce ads. Because at the end of the day, like you have to monetize. This is a beast. This is expensive.

[00:23:01] When you talked about data centers and like, you know, until there's quantum, like that's going to need to exist. And – And quantum is nuclear computing? Yeah. Quantum is like – so regular computing is like ones and zeros, right? And like that kind of makes sense to people. Okay. Quantum is like ones and zeros all over the place. Like they don't go in a straight line. Okay. And so it's supposedly going to be way faster.

[00:23:30] I mean, it'll be like light years faster. It will be the difference of like analog, like, you know, AOL dial-up in your home to like now having – Fiber. Fiber, right? Or even like the speed that you have on your phone. Wow. So that will change everything. So like the speed, it can – would you call it a turn? Yeah, a turn. So I did this study just like – I mean, just myself, right? I – it's not like hugely technical.

[00:23:57] But I signed up for like 40 different profiles across several different platforms because I wanted to see how quick it would tell me to vote for a Democrat versus a Republican. And it took half the time to tell me to vote for a Democrat as it did a Republican. Interesting. So it was easier to – for the average person, it would be easier to be led that way quicker is what you're saying? That's interesting.

[00:24:21] And so, I mean, whatever your political party is, like the AI engine shouldn't be telling you to vote for. I agree. Yeah. Like, you know, Google tells you who's running. Google doesn't say vote for this person. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, but I wanted to see if it would and I would say things like who should I vote for? Well, that depends on your values. Okay, these are my values. And I would do like left-leaning and right-leaning values, right, to see what it would say. I would say, well, then you might consider this person. I was like, should I vote for this person?

[00:24:51] Does this person align with the values that I've shared with you? Yes, you should vote for this person. But AI, like where you lead it, it goes almost too. And it makes mistakes. Yeah, like I've had friends – A lot of mistakes. Like they use AI to prove their point and it's just them prompting it to give it. It's like tailored. Here's my response. And so like – It's just another algorithm. Yeah. It really – I mean that's what people don't get. It is just another algorithm.

[00:25:20] It is. It's very interesting. Yeah, it's like how do we navigate, you know, the world and like through all this change and I'm just going to take this opportunity to say this. Like I really think that people overcomplicate the meaning of life because it seems like it should be a complex answer. And beyond the physical need to, you know, make the race continue or make the species continue.

[00:25:50] And I think it's just to enjoy the present. Like as a self-aware being, like I feel like that is the meaning of life. So to answer my own question, that's what I keep leaning into whenever I start feeling like this dread or what's the world going to do and like how crazy is it out there. I just start thinking about, well, actually it's not too bad right here in this moment, you know. And so I try to take that in. Yeah. You can't borrow trouble. Can't borrow trouble. Yeah.

[00:26:20] You can't – Can't borrow it. Yeah. You can't borrow trouble. So don't. Like don't borrow trouble. There's no returns. Yeah. Exactly. They'll never pay you back. Yeah. No, it's yours. It's yours forever. I wonder what AI would say to that, the meaning of life. No, you got me thinking. No, we can ask. That's a very human answer, right? I feel like AI would probably take you down this windy rabbit hole because some are going to go, you know, a religious route. Others are going to go, you know, whatever. Where is it going to go? Which way is it going to lead you now?

[00:26:46] Well, that's the problem because we've just created another vacuum of like a series of yes people that reinforce your values. Yeah. Whether they're good or bad. Tell you how to feel, think, live. Right. It's a numbers game. It's a numbers game. And it's just like – it's like anything else. Like you're going to hang out with the people that tell you you're right, you're pretty, you're whatever. Like you're going to – that's who you're going to navigate towards. Yeah.

[00:27:12] And so if you're constantly being affirmed, why wouldn't you get your information from there at a higher propensity than on Google or websites or Wikipedia or, you know, papers, white papers, articles? Because I already know, like I'm being affirmed that my opinion is correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's too much information. We have too much information. We track too much people watching their sleep scores and all this stuff constantly. Am I doing it right? Did I hit the metrics? It says I need to do this. Well, how about, like Art said, enjoy the present. Yeah.

[00:27:43] Kind of back to basics, right? Yeah. Just get back to basics. Back to basics. So you can't borrow trouble. So like, you know, you're in trouble and then it's – does this go along the lines of like, you know, you lose someone's respect or trust once, like you never get it back the same? Is that kind of along the same lines as like you can't borrow trouble? I don't fully understand.

[00:28:07] So borrow trouble is like I'm going to think about all the things – like you said, like I'm not going to think about all the things that can go wrong tomorrow. I'm going to live in today. Yeah. If I were thinking about all the things that could go wrong tomorrow or Saturday or Sunday or in five years, I'm borrowing trouble, right? Like I'm borrowing – It doesn't even exist yet. It doesn't exist yet. Yeah. So I'm like I'm borrowing something that I can't control that I don't even understand yet and, you know, it doesn't make sense. That does make sense. Yeah. What you say. Yes. It does.

[00:28:38] I'm following you now. Some good one-liners coming out of this. All right. So we did politics. We worked in some aerospace and then now you're doing epic things. Yes. Yes. So I'm a co-founder of a company called Givio, which is an amazing group of people and organization. So I – throughout my political leanings and all that, I've always worked with nonprofits and now I solely work with nonprofits.

[00:29:03] And one of the reasons is that nonprofits deserve agency-level assets and work without agency-level prices because they just can't afford it. And one of the biggest ways that nonprofits raise money are through galas and fundraising events and stuff like that. And they have a live auction and they have a silent auction. And there's a ton of companies out there that do what's called consignment.

[00:29:30] So nonprofits can buy a trip or buy something and then whatever they sell it for, they get to keep the difference. What doesn't exist and what was a huge void is the amount of time that it takes to get silent auction items because you literally have to go like pound the pavement, go to businesses, ask for like wine or boxes or gift cards or whatever their swag is. And we created a proprietary engine that does that all automatically.

[00:29:59] So they literally get to their inbox the fact that, you know, we've secured five items for you today, ten items for you today. And it's all from an email that they set up for Givio. And it all includes their mission. So it doesn't lose that community impact that you have when you go out into the community. And then they also get to get the donation direct from the person donating.

[00:30:28] So they still have that connection and opportunity to build that person into a donor. Okay. How long did this take to kind of build and get ready to go? Is it live? So it's going to launch on June 8th. So coming up. Yep, coming up. I am amazed having developed apps in the past. Not this is an app. This is a full software suite, SaaS company. But we have one.

[00:30:57] I'm kind of tripping over my words because I don't know. Some people are working on this and their current employers don't know. But we have a CTO person who has built this in record time and just has put together an amazing product that I know is going to be hugely helpful to nonprofits. Because if they're not spending time sourcing those items that really don't bring in a ton of money and they're out getting sponsorships and selling tickets, they're going to raise more money.

[00:31:23] So a silent auction is where people are bidding but no one knows what the bid is. Right. Except for now, a lot of it is on an app, right? So you get a notification if you've been outbid and then you can up your bid and stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. And then so I'm trying to put the pieces together. So you're able to help find these items that then go into a silent auction and the nonprofit still pays for the item up front? Nope. They don't.

[00:31:53] They don't pay anything. Okay. They only pay 10% of what it sells for. Okay. Yep. So no up front cost. And then a lot of people may charge on fair market value, which is higher than what it sells for. It's just 10% of what it sells. And if we secure something that doesn't sell, they don't pay for it. Interesting. Okay. So what's kind of the route to market to get this in front of nonprofits?

[00:32:15] So we've had six, I think, six or seven test cases already, like in beta, just to prove the model and prove that everything is working the way that it should work. And then we're going to roll out to 20 nonprofits this fall and then have full-scale rollout next year. Okay. I like the phased approach. Yeah, me too. It's a little bit – I do change management, and so I'm very familiar with these phased approaches and big bang type of scenarios.

[00:32:42] I always want to go big bang, but I get turned down on that. There's too much risk. Well, it's damage control. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So I'm a big bang person. Like I'm totally extra and over the top all the time with everything. More is more is like definitely one of my mottos. And so it's a really good team that we have because the founder and CEO is very measured and he's had great success in business.

[00:33:09] And I'm learning a lot from him to the benefits of tempering some of that enthusiasm. I have been independently called a golden retriever by a lot of people that don't know each other. Interesting. A golden retriever? Yeah, because I'm like always on the go or like just to get something, whatever. But that's not the best way to be in something like this. So it has been a really, it's been a really smooth process.

[00:33:38] And I think I'm really excited for 20 this fall to see how it goes. Well, and it's, I mean, June 8th is basically already here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, how time is going. Yeah. So that's good. It's good timing to get this out to people. Yeah. Now, is it going to be, you say you're going to 20. Is that going to be like Colorado? Is it regional? It's wherever. So we, yeah. So our first launched, um, our team is divided between Colorado. I'm in Colorado and then the rest of the team is in Florida.

[00:34:05] So we had a few in Florida and a few in Colorado. Um, but our focus, you know, my focus will be here and the national, um, but the, and then their focus will be kind of Florida. But the goal is for it to be a national company, obviously. Sure. And then we also have a partner program. So if businesses, um, businesses are constantly hit up, right? It's like, it's over the top. They're inundated. Yeah. They're inundated with requests. Yeah.

[00:34:33] They don't know if they're good, if they're like, if their organizations have been around, if they've done good work, if they do what they say they do. So, um, we actually have a partner program, um, where you can tell us how much inventory you want to give for the year. And we can help get that to charities, um, through a marketplace where they come in and they're like, oh, I need a bottle of wine for my wine basket. I need, um, coffee for a year to, to auction off or whatever.

[00:35:02] And so businesses can come and partner with us and give, give their stuff away without having to deal with all the requests. They can literally just tell people, get it with Givio. Hmm. Givio. Givio. Okay. I like the name. I like the idea. Thank you. It sounds very streamlined. Yes. Right. The idea is to make things easier. The idea is to make nonprofits, um, have as many tools as they can have to raise more money and save more time.

[00:35:29] So I'm uneducated on nonprofits. I've, I've heard nonprofits, you know, that thrown around for years. Right. So I want to understand them more during this conversation. So with nonprofits, it's generally a company that is helping individuals. Like a nonprofit is, you're never going to see like a tech nonprofit company. Well, you might.

[00:35:56] Like that's building technology or like, I don't understand like what would, what kind of company would meet the criteria of being a nonprofit. And then, you know, the employees, they still need to get a paycheck, but the company doesn't keep like any excess. And that's what makes it a nonprofit. I just don't fully understand. So a nonprofit is actually a corporation. Okay.

[00:36:21] And then, um, in order for it to be like, I mean, I don't want to say true nonprofit cause you, anybody could create a nonprofit tomorrow, but the value of a nonprofit is that you are tax deductible and that status is granted through the IRS. And that is 501 C3 C4. There's various ones, but most nonprofits are 501 C3 and you have to have a declared mission and a declared, um, sector.

[00:36:47] And, um, you have to be benefiting some group or groups of people. And then the IRS will approve your, your 501 C3 status. And then people can give you donations and those are tax deductible. So as soon as you set up a nonprofit, you can take donations, but they just aren't tax deductible until the IRS gives you your status.

[00:37:11] And so like, okay, let's say, because we have an LLC for the podcast and we help people stay motivated and, you know, trying to create mental health. Could we become a nonprofit? You know, like, like I don't. Yeah. So you can absolutely create a nonprofit that's associated with your LLC. What you can't do is take money from your nonprofit and give it to your LLC. Right.

[00:37:39] But you can take money from your LLC and give it to your nonprofit. And so if you wanted to, like, you've been doing this for a while, right? We said 315 episodes. So if you have, um, you feel like you have a way to better help with mental health and do something for the public good that isn't being done. Um, then you could start up, you could start a nonprofit, you could get your 501c3 status, and then you just start telling people what you're doing and raising money. Yeah.

[00:38:07] So, and thank you for helping explain because I've never asked the questions or done the research on like exactly like how it works, but it seems like it's a selfless corporation, but it also is self beneficial for tax write-offs. Yes. So people are motivated to give to causes that they care about. Um, and then they're incentivized to give via the tax credit tax write-off.

[00:38:37] The write-off. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just trying to understand like all the motivation and reasons why, what, like why do nonprofits exist and how they operate? Well, a lot of things, um, you know, before nonprofits, like, uh, things were done through our government and through academic institutions. And as we kind of talked about, they're not very agile. Yeah. And so they can't just like get in there and get their hands dirty and get things done. And nonprofits can.

[00:39:05] So, um, you know, like I work with several nonprofits. One of them is a domestic violence shelter. And, you know, we have a shelter where people can come and stay if they're in a, in a situation with domestic violence. Right. Like you can't just pop that up. Yeah. Right. Like if the government or an academic institution were to do that or a research institution probably would be very, look very different than how it looks with us. Okay.

[00:39:31] And so sometimes, um, really big nonprofits will partner with government with, for grants or whatever. But, you know, I'm a huge, um, recipient of nonprofits because of all of the money that has been put into like breast cancer research. That's through nonprofits. Okay. Right. So there's nonprofits that do research. There's nonprofits that do advocacy.

[00:39:58] There's nonprofits that do, I mean, you name it, they're out there. And since we're recording, congratulations on. Five years. Yes. Five years. That's terrific. Thank you. That's super exciting. Yes. Feeling good. Yeah. Yeah. Living life. Yep. Living life. Feel good. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. Fuck cancer. Is all they always say. Exactly. I'm trying not to use profanity on this episode, but fuck cancer. No, it's a, it's yeah. My mom has cancer now and it's just like, it's a pervasive thing. It is.

[00:40:28] I, I truly believe that, um, manmade like sugars, high fructose and, and a lot of that. And I believe our self thoughts, like are, are we optimistic or pessimistic? And I believe what we think about and how we view reality also impacts our bodies as, as well, to a certain extent. I do believe that, but I'm really happy that the nonprofits, cause I didn't think about that.

[00:40:56] Like that leads to, you know, you sitting here being a survivor through nonprofits. Right. So that's kind of where the passion came, right? Yeah. And just, you know, need to do a little cleanse, soul cleansing after 20 years of politics. I can imagine. But, um, no, I, I've, I grew up with nonprofits. Like my mom was on a board, my dad donated, um, you know, so I've kind of always had nonprofits

[00:41:21] in my life and, um, what I, they're scrappy, right? Like I like that about it. They're all like a startup. I mean, the ones that I work with anyway, like you have like really big ones like Susan G. Komen and stuff, and they've been around and they're a huge national organization that raises hundreds of millions of dollars. Um, I'm guessing I haven't actually looked that up. Um, and so the ones that I work with are like very scrappy. So you can be creative and you can do cool things.

[00:41:48] Like, um, we just did a Met Gala red carpet watch party for the domestic violence shelter. We had no speeches. We talked nothing about domestic violence. It was just to let the community know that like we were there. Nice. And, um, we got 70 new people that had never heard of us and like we weren't on the list and just to come because we did a fun thing. Just showing up and showing up. That human element. Human element. Yep. It's back to basics. Getting out and talking to people. It's grassroots. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:17] But grassroots has changed, right? I mean, grassroots is a lot on your phone now. Yeah. Um. Yep. We got to fertilize that grass a little differently now. It has to change. Yeah. But I mean, there's still people walking precincts and, you know, having phone banks and stuff like that. I don't know how, I mean, it's a weird, it's such a weird concept to think about now somebody coming to your front door. I know. Yeah. And that like used to happen all the time. Every day. I just put up a no soliciting sign. Right.

[00:42:48] And I made sure it said no knocking or ringing. Oh, yeah. You know. So there's no loophole there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's close, let's close that communication line down because I don't want anybody knocking on my door. Right. That's a good point. We used to be, you know, pretty used to just here. I'm selling a vacuum today or whatever. Yeah. Now it's like you're watching it from your ring camera or whatever it's called. And you're like, yeah, not interested. Right. Keep it moving. Right. I feel like the next person, because now I have the no soliciting sign up, the next

[00:43:17] person that comes and solicits, I'm going to be like, hey, did you see the sign? And I'm going to be really nice. Okay. I want to treat people fairly. Yes. And I'm like, did you see the sign? And they'll be like, oh. And then I'll say, well, before you pitch me, if you believe in your product, you'll give me $5 and I'll listen. And then if they don't give me $5 and I'm like, sorry. Reverse sales. No. So I actually just pitched something exactly like this. Really? To a nonprofit that I'm working with. Yes.

[00:43:47] Because they have a lot of like lapsed donors. I'm like, okay, we need to do virtual coffees. And when you invite them, you need to send them a $5 gift card to a local coffee shop to go get a coffee. Okay. Right. So same idea. That's brilliant. Nice. I didn't know I was onto something. You are. I was kind of just being like, you know, like, hey, since you didn't read the sign, you want to pay for my time sort of thing? Right. Yeah. Well, people love free things. They love free things. Or a free cup of coffee or whatever. You can definitely buy some time. Yeah. And they feel beholden to you.

[00:44:16] Not beholden, but they feel like they not owe you something, but like they're going to give you something in exchange. Yeah. That's the art of a sale for sure. Yeah. Getting that trust and getting some time to sit down and chat with that person. Here, let me buy you a coffee. Yeah. And I mean, I've raised a lot of money in my life, like over $170 million. Oh, sure. Being a politician. Yeah. And you don't do it. Hey, can I have some money? And I'm like, do you guys know TI? Like ask for vice and get money twice.

[00:44:46] Like that's the. Get money twice. That's how it goes. Right. So it's best in sales. Like I just, obviously I do a lot of sales and stuff and it's just like, you've got to build a report and you've got to understand that person, their problem. Yeah. You know, like the hardest thing working in politics was getting candidates to stop talking because that's not how you win a vote. Mm-hmm. It's by listening. And it's very easy to do.

[00:45:16] Why are you here? You have to keep yapping, huh? Yeah. Yeah. They just keep talking about themselves. Yeah. Not, but the good ones, they'll, they'll, they'll listen. There's definitely, I think a level of narcissism to be in politics. Like I do think there's a lot of, of selfless people that do care about their community and their constituents, but like 170 million raised. That's incredible. Right. I mean, it's just, there's so much money and special interests and you know, they, they kind of joke on my NASCAR shirt on, like politicians are like NASCAR fire suits. They should be walking around with all their sponsors on it. It's kind of, kind of true.

[00:45:46] I think they should. Yeah. I think there needs to be a lot of reform in how this is done because it's, especially the way that things have kind of gone in the last two years. Yeah. I mean, you should be proud of the people that are paying you to do it. And if you're not, then that's something that people should know. Well, it's supposed to be about transparency, right? Yeah. I haven't really seen it. No. No. I agree. But that's, that's a whole nother rabbit hole. You've definitely done a lot of things.

[00:46:16] You're very intelligent. You have your hands on a lot of things. I'm sure you have some good advice. We always like to kind of close with our guests on a piece of advice for humanity that they'll be better off hearing. Well, I think we'd touch on one, which is not to borrow trouble. Don't borrow trouble. I like that one. That's good. Um, I mean, I always say this and people kind of think it's insensitive, but it is what it is. What, and, and how, and it's going to work out one way or another.

[00:46:46] It may not be the way that you want or the way that you anticipate, but it will work out. There will be a finality to that situation. And I think if you're not married to a certain outcome, life is a lot simpler. I laugh because I felt a sense of relief when you said that. Yeah. Because yeah, people get so fixated on what they think should instead of just what is. Right. It is what it is.

[00:47:16] And it, yeah, it completely removes you from what's actually happening right now. Good point. Right. Simple. There is hope. There's hope. There is hope. Yeah. Control the controllables, right? Turn off some of the noise. Yeah. A lot of it's noise. It's so much noise. Everybody is trying to sell you something and trying to tell you how to feel, think, like all the things we covered. Yeah. Right. But nobody's asking questions. No one's asking questions. Yeah. Why? Why is that? What kind of questions should we be asking? What can I do for you? How are you? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:46] What's going on with you? How was your weekend? Why do you care about this? Yeah. What can I learn from you? People love to share their stories. They do. Yeah. No, it's true. That's the best way to connect. Start asking questions. Yeah. And I actually care and listen. Right. Right. And, you know, key in on that. Like, that's interesting. Tell me more. Can you say more about that? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like, I don't love talking about myself and I really am not comfortable with small talk. Like, it's just not my thing.

[00:48:13] So, I have kind of naturally become someone that asks a lot of questions because I would rather listen than, you know, talk about myself. But, yeah, I think we need to ask more and we need to listen more because it's just like, it's like when you came home from school, the first thing you're, how was school? Tell me what you learned today. Tell me what you learned today. What do you want to eat? Like. That feels good. That feels good. Yeah. That's true. Instead of just going and getting on the screen. Yeah. Here, here you go. Right. Distraction.

[00:48:42] And like, I don't know if you guys are in relationships or whatever, but you like come home from your day and just say, how was your day? What did you do? Sure. Rather than I'm watching TV or I'm this or that, you know, like plug in, like plug into people. It's true. Put the phones down. Yeah. Give it effort. Give it effort. A good life, in my opinion, it never, my good life that I'm currently living came from owning it, stepping up to the plate, being responsible and being accountable.

[00:49:10] And also just most importantly, like I, I always do things the right way, even if it's more difficult because every single corner I ever cut in my life that it was well-rounded and came back to me. Yes. And you end up like having to walk 12 more blocks. Yeah. Or redo the work. And so generally like own your mistakes. Don't cut corners. Everyone has this intuitive gift of knowing right and wrong.

[00:49:38] I think that's what, like, I feel dogs have it to a certain extent, you know, and, and like a lot of animals on this planet have like the conscious awareness of right and wrong and good. And like, why else would birds feed turtles? Right. Like, you know, like you see like these animals helping other animals. So. Be like the birds and turtles. Yeah. Be like the birds and turtles. Yeah. And this was, this was good to learn about nonprofits. Yeah. Giveo. Giveo. I want to, I want to talk to you about so many things.

[00:50:08] We, we can't let three years go by. I know. I know. Yeah. Let's, let's make this more regular. Yeah. And we wanted to do for anybody listening, like a free event audit for their nonprofit. So I don't know if we could set up a special link like giveo.org backslash. DCPC. DC, whatever's easy. So let me know. Well, I guess we should say it now so we can say it on the thing. Let's, let's do the website. And DCPC. That's always been our acronym. Okay. For discussion combustion podcasts. Okay. Yeah. I think that'll be the easiest.

[00:50:38] And we'll include that in the show notes as well. And we can always go back and update it after June 8th or whatever. Okay. Just so it stays current and we get in that SEO. Yeah. And they can come, they can come and get, um, they can do an event audit, social media audit, marketing audit, whatever they want. But they could have 30 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes of our time without paying for it. That's a pretty smoking deal. So free audit using the DCPC promo code at the end of? Giveo.org. Giveo.org. Yeah. And giveo is G-I-V-E-I-O.

[00:51:08] Perfect. Okay. We'll include that in the show notes. Art, I believe that's your, that's your duty tonight. That's my duty tonight. We do. We trade. Yeah. We get to do all the show notes and stuff. So we're really good friends, but we're also, um, we carry equal weight as business partners. You have to. It's made us better friends, I think. It has. Yeah. It's definitely been some, you know, some disagreements along the way, but that's, that's part of the fun. That's okay. It is. It has to be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like really good at handling conflict in a professional environment.

[00:51:35] And then in my personal life, I like, I'm not good at it at all. That's interesting. There's no carry over there. No. It's like two totally different people, honestly, at work. Versus at home. Yeah. Like I'm not in charge of anything at home. Like I don't, I don't do anything there. Interesting. Yeah. My boyfriend does literally everything. Oh, good man. Yeah. He is. And you deserve it. Thank you. What's his name? Patrick. Shout out to Patrick. Shout out to Patrick. Sounds like a solid lad, as we would say. He is a solid lad. Good job, Patrick. Yeah. He is a solid lad. Take care of our women. All the real men out there take care of their women.

[00:52:05] Yes. That's for sure. Yes. I mean, it's crazy because we had only been dating a year when I was diagnosed with cancer. Wow. And he was like there lockstep the whole time that I was doing treatment and stuff. And yeah, it's been six years in June. See, y'all are really celebrating. Yeah. Because you saw the hard times for sure. Yeah. Wow. Well, congrats. Thanks. Congrats. A strong story. Look forward to this June 8th kickoff. Yes. And we'll have you back on maybe around the holidays and see how everything's doing. Okay. Yeah. Whenever. Perfect. And then you had the Unicorn Podcast. What was that one called? Two Brave Unicorns. Two Brave Unicorns.

[00:52:35] We'll include that link as well. Absolutely. Perfect. Well, it was great to catch up with you again. And I said this, we were listening to the last episode, but I'm going to say it again. Your energy, I can just tell how authentic you are and how you care. And I'm craving it. And I'm so happy that we got to share some time and sit across the couch. Oh, thank you. Thanks for reaching out. Yeah. That's super nice of you. Thank you. Yeah. What you guys are doing is awesome. So I appreciate that you take the time to do it because it's a lot of time. Oh, that's great. This was a great one. So thanks again. Yeah.

[00:53:05] We'll see you soon. Viewers, listeners, be good to yourselves. You deserve it. Absolutely. Believe and achieve. We're out.