John Bates | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #249

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion.

[00:00:01] Discussion, what discussion?

[00:00:03] This is a discussion.

[00:00:04] Combustion.

[00:00:06] Coming to you from Denver, Colorado.

[00:00:08] This is Discussion Combustion Podcast.

[00:00:12] With your hosts, Kevin Batstone and Arthur Raw.

[00:00:15] That's nice.

[00:00:16] I like that.

[00:00:17] I like the keyboard shortcuts.

[00:00:18] Yeah, I do like the keyboard shortcuts.

[00:00:20] Do you use a lot of keyboard shortcuts, John?

[00:00:22] Like the hotkeys.

[00:00:23] The ones that I know about I use, like, I think it would probably be worth spending a little time learning about some more because they certainly make things quicker.

[00:00:32] But I certainly use them when I know them.

[00:00:36] They're helpful.

[00:00:37] One is the key.

[00:00:37] Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[00:00:39] If there's any computer keyboard hotkey that listeners or anybody needs to know about.

[00:00:46] It's going to be the control Z, which, which undo's like, if you accidentally

[00:00:51] delete like a whole paragraph that you just wrote, you accidentally deleted it.

[00:00:56] You hit control Z and then all of a sudden it's back.

[00:00:59] So that, that one's crucial.

[00:01:00] That's a good one.

[00:01:01] Control Z.

[00:01:03] Oh yeah.

[00:01:03] Control Z changed the game for me because I would go through and write these

[00:01:06] show notes for these episodes and then accidentally click out of the page or something and it

[00:01:09] was gone. Control Z, it's back. It's like a magic button.

[00:01:12] Oh, that's awesome. Magic button. You know, there are some magic buttons and it's nice

[00:01:18] to know about them.

[00:01:21] I know where you started thinking right there.

[00:01:25] So, so, so, when we just started this recording, we hit Alt R to start the recording instead

[00:01:31] of manually going in.

[00:01:32] Like that's a zoom pack, I guess.

[00:01:33] Okay.

[00:01:34] Oh, there you go.

[00:01:36] That's cool.

[00:01:37] Either way, as long as we can get it to work, the Facker Manes, you're here with us now.

[00:01:40] Discussion combustion episode 249, John Bates, the legendary speaker.

[00:01:43] Man, thanks for being back with us.

[00:01:47] It's so great that it's definitely my pleasure. Glad that Sean reconnected us, right?

[00:01:51] Sean Antonio thought he was introducing us, but he was reintroducing us.

[00:01:56] He introduced us.

[00:01:58] So he's a, what a great guy.

[00:02:01] We're so fortunate to have, you know, everybody in the wheelhouse that we've

[00:02:04] met from Sean to you to, you know, all the all the people in the wheelhouse.

[00:02:07] But the last time we had Sean on, it was a couple of few months ago, he was in Australia.

[00:02:10] And we did an episode with him from Australia, which was really cool. And then he got back

[00:02:14] to states and was like, man, you guys got to get paid back on the program. So couldn't

[00:02:18] be a better time than the two year mark since you were last on.

[00:02:21] Yeah. Well, lots has happened for me for sure. I'm sure for you guys.

[00:02:25] And you know, I'm about to hit episode.

[00:02:27] I'm about to publish almost 100 100 for me.

[00:02:32] Yeah, we were looking at that, man.

[00:02:34] So you guys got your way ahead of me, but there are two of you.

[00:02:39] So that's fair.

[00:02:41] No, and look, in this podcast market, we've been in it for five years and we're fortunate

[00:02:47] to have each other.

[00:02:48] I will say that.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:50] But we've seen so many other projects come and go.

[00:02:54] Yeah.

[00:02:55] And so our biggest piece of advice that we normally give to podcasters, and you've passed

[00:03:00] this already.

[00:03:01] Once you get over the 50 episode markets, like obviously you're doing this thing.

[00:03:05] But if you don't have passion for what you're talking about, if you don't love what you're

[00:03:12] talking about, then don't even start it. Don't even start the podcast in the first place.

[00:03:17] Like if you have all these alternative motives or whatever, you should really only do it if

[00:03:21] you have a passion for it. And we're so excited that you're about the hit episode 100.

[00:03:26] What a milestone.

[00:03:27] Yeah, that's definitely a huge milestone.

[00:03:29] And other podcasters, when we first hit 100,

[00:03:33] that opened up the door to a lot of new opportunities

[00:03:35] for us, because all of a sudden they're like,

[00:03:38] well, if you hit 100, obviously you take your project

[00:03:40] seriously, you're not just a flash in the pan type

[00:03:43] of podcast.

[00:03:44] And so we started

[00:03:45] getting new opportunities once we hit 100. Oh, that's cool. Good. Well, I'm looking forward

[00:03:50] to that too. Yeah, no, it's great. And it's, it's the Speak Like a Leader podcast. Am I

[00:03:56] correct? Speak like the leader dot show. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's great. I was kind of thumbing

[00:04:01] through just some of the episode titles looking very intriguing. You rate around that kind of 45 to a minute or 45 minute to an hour mark on the shows, which is great.

[00:04:09] I feel like you really cover a lot of material. It's not too long. It's not too short.

[00:04:13] Yeah. So I mean, I think everything I've seen looks pretty good.

[00:04:15] Well, you know, I tell you the, I think still the most popular episode was maybe episode number five or four or whatever it was with Commodore Oscar Rojas, who was at that time in charge of

[00:04:29] Navy Special Operations, Explosive Ordnance Disposal Number One.

[00:04:33] And so they were, they were down in San Diego and, and he came,

[00:04:40] and I did some work with them. And then I got him on the podcast and he just, he was so authentic and open and real.

[00:04:50] And I think one of the things that my podcast has

[00:04:53] that people love, which your podcast has,

[00:04:57] which is why I think people love your podcast,

[00:05:00] is because it's just like, it's just a conversation

[00:05:04] with people who have some affinity

[00:05:07] and who are being kind to each other

[00:05:09] and trying to like talk about things that have value

[00:05:13] versus like put downs or complaining or whining

[00:05:18] or all the problems of the world.

[00:05:19] That's the mental poison.

[00:05:21] That's the mental gossip poison.

[00:05:23] Get it out of here.

[00:05:23] Yeah, totally.

[00:05:25] So I'm glad you got to me to interrupt.

[00:05:28] Oh, keep going.

[00:05:29] Keep going.

[00:05:30] No, that's all.

[00:05:31] That's all.

[00:05:32] I just, I think that what people, I think people are really

[00:05:34] Jonesing for positive content and conversations that are

[00:05:38] constructive and people talking to each other who have an

[00:05:43] affinity for each other, you know, like mirror

[00:05:46] neurons, right? We mirror what we see going on around us and anybody that watches the news very

[00:05:52] much, man, that's some bad stuff to mirror. I'll tell you. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it really is. I mean,

[00:05:57] I got off mainstream media, like, I don't know, five, six years ago and just my mental happiness

[00:06:01] and day to day is so much better. I can still catch the headlines.

[00:06:05] I still know what's going on because we host a couple of shows and have to be in current

[00:06:09] events and stuff.

[00:06:10] We don't have to let that be the focal point of the day.

[00:06:13] I think a lot of people do.

[00:06:14] So back to your point, I think the biggest, there's the two biggest obstacles now is how

[00:06:18] saturated the podcast market has become.

[00:06:21] So how do you hedge against that?

[00:06:23] And having the right equipment, having consistency and having, you know, good quality content, which you do. Yeah, as you just

[00:06:28] alluded to, it is about just sitting down and having those conversations and allowing the guests

[00:06:32] to, you know, tell their story or whatever. Whereas, you know, a lot of folks like the, you know,

[00:06:35] the comedy stuff and the true kind of, there's a market for all of it, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

[00:06:39] The hardest part now in 2024 is, okay, well, great. You have a show, why is it better than this one?

[00:06:46] Or why should I listen to that one?

[00:06:47] Or what are you talking about?

[00:06:48] That's different than this.

[00:06:48] It's saturated.

[00:06:49] Yeah, there's so much.

[00:06:52] There's so much.

[00:06:54] Yeah.

[00:06:55] I have noticed that.

[00:06:57] Yeah.

[00:06:58] And a lot of folks think, hey, that's a great idea.

[00:06:59] That's a get rich overnight strategy.

[00:07:02] Sure.

[00:07:02] It's not a great way to think, at least in my opinion, John,

[00:07:05] doing this five years now, this show, yeah,

[00:07:07] it's opened some doors for us.

[00:07:08] It's a tremendous look on the resume,

[00:07:10] and it certainly has brought us a source of income.

[00:07:12] But I think a lot of people are like, oh, that's the ticket.

[00:07:14] We got it.

[00:07:15] I'm just going to do it.

[00:07:16] But when you look at a program like you have,

[00:07:17] or what we do, it's a passion project.

[00:07:19] And it's talking to people having these real conversations

[00:07:22] and getting back to the roots, that's the mission. Well, and you know, it is one of those things that I mean, I don't like being patient any

[00:07:31] more than anybody else does, you know, and it's just as hard or harder for me to be consistent

[00:07:38] as it is for anybody else, you know, but that's what I think wins the race. I think that the parable of the tortoise and the hair is not, that's not the sexiest

[00:07:51] parable when I was an 18 year old, want to drive fast, live fast, you know, like all

[00:07:57] that.

[00:07:58] But man, that is a much more important piece of advice than I got until, you know, a lot

[00:08:04] later in my life and all of a sudden I'm like, you know, a lot later in my life.

[00:08:05] And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Slow and steady wins the race.

[00:08:10] It doesn't sound sexy, but it's there's such truth to that in the game of life, right?

[00:08:15] Well, and I think I think one of the main points to that that just it just hit me of the tour.

[00:08:20] And I've never even thought this before just right now. Is that the tortoise is not allowing

[00:08:27] all these outside circumstances to perturb the torto.

[00:08:31] Like it's not allowing all this extra stuff

[00:08:33] to perturb itself.

[00:08:35] It's just, it knows its purpose.

[00:08:37] It's doing these steps.

[00:08:38] It's doing the walk.

[00:08:40] It's not allowing all the...

[00:08:41] Because like in the cartoons,

[00:08:43] doesn't the hair like put up all these obstacles

[00:08:46] and all these things in front of the tortoise?

[00:08:48] And the tortoise just doesn't even let it bother it.

[00:08:51] It just keeps walking.

[00:08:53] It's cool, yeah.

[00:08:54] Right?

[00:08:55] So not only slow and steady,

[00:08:56] but also non-reactive to outside circumstances

[00:09:01] staying driven and centered.

[00:09:04] And the tortoise's cases,

[00:09:06] and the tortoise case finishing this race.

[00:09:09] But you could apply that in life

[00:09:11] in a lot of different ways, right?

[00:09:12] Oh, for sure.

[00:09:13] Slow and steady and don't let the noise get in your head.

[00:09:16] Don't let it echo in your head, basically.

[00:09:19] A lot of noise.

[00:09:19] Yeah.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] But I just had an experience with that.

[00:09:25] Okay.

[00:09:25] So, so I'll share this because I think it's got some lessons in it.

[00:09:31] Like I don't, I'm not sharing this for pity and there's a little bit of a trigger warning.

[00:09:35] Um, you know, if you're easily, easily triggered by surgeries or deaths,

[00:09:40] then you might want to just tune out now, but I'll make it quick.

[00:09:47] And then we can talk about the really cool thing that happened.

[00:09:51] We'll talk about the crappy stuff first and then the cool stuff.

[00:09:55] But in late October of 2022, I had a shoulder surgery because I tore a rotator cuff muscle.

[00:10:05] And that surgery got infected and I went back to the doctor

[00:10:09] a week in and I'm like, you know,

[00:10:11] I think that this is infected and his assistant looked at it

[00:10:15] and said, oh, don't worry about it.

[00:10:16] You'll be fine.

[00:10:18] No.

[00:10:19] More than a month later, my shoulder just froze up

[00:10:22] because I had such a bad infection in there. And they put me on

[00:10:28] antibiotics, like multiple antibiotics, really high dose, high strength, you know,

[00:10:34] gnarly antibiotics, and did a debridement surgery and dug all the infection out, like, went in and physically, you know, squeezed it, yeah, dug it. And then my dad died

[00:10:46] a week later. And we found out my mom had dementia much worse than we knew. And I had

[00:10:55] two more debridement surgeries over the next month. And finally, you know, it didn't come back like

[00:11:05] Finally, it didn't come back fully blown out.

[00:11:12] And I was on antibiotics for like another six or eight months

[00:11:15] and I was completely non-functional. Like I just, I couldn't work.

[00:11:18] I could barely spend time with my wife and my son

[00:11:22] going to Costco with my wife was like, it was like the bravest

[00:11:28] thing I'd ever done in my life.

[00:11:30] Like it was so horrifically bad.

[00:11:32] And what I, and then I finally found a woman who had worked at the VA, who has worked at

[00:11:37] or had worked at the VA for her whole life.

[00:11:40] And she was like, Oh, John, calm down, calm down.

[00:11:45] Here's what's going on.

[00:11:47] Serious infections like that are highly correlated

[00:11:52] with clinical depression.

[00:11:55] And I did not know that.

[00:11:58] I did not know that.

[00:11:59] And luckily for me, I had never experienced

[00:12:02] clinical depression before, but I'll tell you what,

[00:12:05] if you know someone who has clinical depression, they can't help it.

[00:12:11] If they're acting all bummed out and they don't return your call and they want you

[00:12:15] to call them, but then they never call you.

[00:12:18] Dude, it's the worst thing I've ever been through in my lifetimes at thousand.

[00:12:25] And then the antibiotics that I was on had a less calming but not rare side effect of

[00:12:33] clinical anxiety.

[00:12:35] So I was clinically depressed and clinically anxious and just utterly freaking out about

[00:12:42] everything and unable to work for like nine months.

[00:12:46] And I also was suffering from this thing called Acathysia.

[00:12:51] And people can find, I highly recommend people go look

[00:12:54] at M-I-S-S-D.CO.

[00:12:58] M-I-S-S-D.CO because it's missed so often, right?

[00:13:03] People don't know about it.

[00:13:05] There's a big public awareness campaign going on right now

[00:13:09] that just started about Acathysia,

[00:13:13] but it's where you can't stop your mind

[00:13:16] from just racing and racing and racing

[00:13:18] and you can't sit still and you just can't concentrate

[00:13:21] on anything.

[00:13:21] So I had all three of those things going on.

[00:13:25] And when I met this doctor and started taking her advice,

[00:13:29] I finally, like we were at a point where it was maybe

[00:13:33] earlier than they wanted me to get off the antibiotics,

[00:13:36] but it was far enough along that I had a really good chance

[00:13:39] of being okay.

[00:13:41] So I was like, okay, screw it.

[00:13:42] Let's get off the antibiotics.

[00:13:44] I got on all kinds of probiotics, which I had been taking, you know, but I just doubled the dose and, and within about two weeks, I was back to myself again, you know, and now several months later I'm, I'm firing on all cylinders again. But good, you know, that was a horrible experience. And I never, I never understood

[00:14:09] why people would kill themselves. And I understand that now. Like I was, if it wasn't for my wife

[00:14:17] and my son, I think I would have been, it would have, it already was really tempting to just say, look, this is just not worth doing anymore.

[00:14:26] I'm out, you know?

[00:14:28] And, and I think the other thing that, that I would say right

[00:14:33] alongside of that is if you feel like that and you're hearing

[00:14:38] this right now, know that you can feel better.

[00:14:42] And I don't know what it's going to take and I don't know how long it's gonna take,

[00:14:46] but I really thought that I would never feel normal

[00:14:51] or good again and I do.

[00:14:54] And so there's hope for you if you're listening to this,

[00:14:57] right?

[00:14:58] And if you know somebody who's had a serious infection,

[00:15:03] like check in on them, you know,

[00:15:05] like if they got a knee replacement or they got it.

[00:15:07] So like an infection could cause the depression

[00:15:13] or vice versa?

[00:15:15] No, no, no, the infection,

[00:15:17] the way that I understand it is that

[00:15:21] serious infections mess with your whole body chemistry

[00:15:26] and that messing with it can cause clinical depression.

[00:15:31] Depression, severe, okay, that makes sense.

[00:15:34] Yeah, and how I heard it explained by somebody

[00:15:37] and I don't know how true this is,

[00:15:38] but if you, in the old days, if you had an infection,

[00:15:44] you would, it would be good for you to get away from the group so you didn't infect anybody else

[00:15:49] That's not the kind of infection I had

[00:15:52] Right, but but if you you know if you had an infection

[00:15:57] You know in evolutionary times there might be a benefit to getting you away from the group

[00:16:03] Which is why you would get depressed

[00:16:05] and not wanna be around anybody

[00:16:07] and wanna go lay down and be by yourself.

[00:16:09] And also not wanna eat because eating,

[00:16:14] not eating can really help with getting rid of,

[00:16:18] you know, massive fasting can help get rid of infections

[00:16:23] because your body goes into ketosis and it helps

[00:16:25] rid the infection. So I'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice but you

[00:16:32] know boy do I have a lot more experience with all that stuff now than I did. It

[00:16:37] was just the worst thing I've ever been through times a thousand. Yeah, and look, I mean, the fact that you're willing

[00:16:47] to share that information, I think it's important

[00:16:51] because you're a successful person, you've worked for

[00:16:54] all these big companies, everybody knows the company's

[00:16:57] names, like a lot of big companies you've helped

[00:17:00] as far as like, you know, teaching them how to speak.

[00:17:03] So on the outside looking in, everyone's like, John Bates, he's confident, he's successful.

[00:17:09] He has a great career. You know, he keeps, he's in good shape. He's healthy.

[00:17:14] You know, they all, you know, but everybody has a battle to fight.

[00:17:18] Yeah. And honestly, I think that the war never ends. The battles might be more sparse.

[00:17:26] Like, yeah, you don't battle as often maybe, but that war still exists.

[00:17:32] And so you sharing that story really does like, I feel like it's important because it

[00:17:38] doesn't matter how old you are, what levels of success that you've reached? And physically, physically, with the infection,

[00:17:49] that impacted your mind.

[00:17:52] And our mind is part of our body, body is part of our mind.

[00:17:55] It's all one.

[00:17:56] So, and then how that can start to roll down the hill

[00:18:02] and then pick up momentum.

[00:18:03] And then all of a sudden,

[00:18:04] you're sitting here contemplating suicide.

[00:18:07] And we're so happy that you're still with us.

[00:18:08] Um, you know, we, we, we support a lot of different areas where it's, uh,

[00:18:12] suicide prevention for vets and look, if anyone's dealing with that,

[00:18:16] then you got to reach out and talk to it.

[00:18:18] And if you don't have people in your corner to talk to, then,

[00:18:21] then reach out to the help lines.

[00:18:22] They exist for that reason.

[00:18:24] But, you know, obviously you're a man with courage.

[00:18:28] You've read Power versus Force, which we learned last time,

[00:18:31] which I'm still excited that you read that book.

[00:18:34] Yeah.

[00:18:35] But that's just another reminder.

[00:18:38] Like personally, I feel like I have been in a heavy success,

[00:18:44] energy swing. Like I've been doing a heavy success energy swing.

[00:18:46] Like I've been doing a lot to help myself

[00:18:48] and I've been reaping those benefits.

[00:18:50] That's great.

[00:18:51] You can't get complacent, you can't get comfortable

[00:18:54] with hitting these benchmarks and stuff

[00:18:56] because at any moment,

[00:18:59] life can throw us some curve balls.

[00:19:01] And if you're not prepared and truly resilient,

[00:19:04] then you could easily fall off.

[00:19:07] You could easily fall off.

[00:19:08] And so I feel like it's just a good reminder

[00:19:11] and a quick reminder, no matter what kind of levels

[00:19:15] of success you've reached in the past,

[00:19:17] it doesn't mean that you're gonna maintain those

[00:19:19] unless if you actively work on them.

[00:19:21] And even if you are actively working on those things,

[00:19:24] you might still get hit with some curveballs that you weren't expecting. And then it derails everything

[00:19:29] and you really got to work hard to get back to where you were, you know, so I'm happy

[00:19:34] that you shared that story. Happy you're still with us, man. And how's your shoulder feeling

[00:19:38] today?

[00:19:39] Yeah, shoulder.

[00:19:40] You know, I've been doing my Pilates and I got it. My brother lent me his X3

[00:19:48] band system, which is pretty, pretty groovy. It's a it's, you know, really heavy duty bands with a

[00:19:55] system and he's got a whole workout routine. And it's actually pretty cool. He, you know,

[00:20:01] it's really good for strength building and muscle mass.

[00:20:05] And I need to get my muscle mass back

[00:20:07] because I was on my butt for at least nine months

[00:20:11] of just basically not doing anything.

[00:20:15] Oh, dude, it was a nice.

[00:20:17] So how did the bounce back from that look like?

[00:20:19] You know, just getting ready to ask that.

[00:20:21] Yeah, you were talking about the rock bottom,

[00:20:23] so to speak, and like the really, really dark point,

[00:20:25] which I think is relatable for a lot of people

[00:20:27] if they've been through some sort of depression or anxiety

[00:20:29] or anger, which I struggled with my earlier years.

[00:20:31] And I remember being like, well, what does it look like

[00:20:33] on the upswing?

[00:20:34] When did you start to be like, okay,

[00:20:35] the day is starting to look beautiful again,

[00:20:37] and things are starting to look up?

[00:20:38] Yeah, you know, I mean,

[00:20:42] I think that there's, it was a, it was a whole new lesson to me.

[00:20:46] And it feels vulnerable to talk about this,

[00:20:48] but I think we need to talk about it more.

[00:20:50] Like, you know, I, like they were trying all kinds

[00:20:54] of psychiatric drugs on me and they're,

[00:20:57] oh, here try this, oh, here try that, oh, do this, do that.

[00:21:00] You need to breathe more, you need to meditate, right?

[00:21:03] Like, and dude, it was a lot of that stuff I was already doing, like meditating and breathing and being present,

[00:21:10] and I had a mindfulness practice. So there's an element of just chemistry going on, you know what

[00:21:17] I mean? And I think that, I mean, I don't have any proof of this.

[00:21:26] If you search doctor internet, you'll find all kinds

[00:21:30] of contradictory things about it.

[00:21:32] But I really do think that as much as I needed

[00:21:35] those antibiotics, I think they really blew out

[00:21:39] my gut microbiome and that had a real impact on my mood,

[00:21:44] right? Because so much of your serotonin

[00:21:46] is produced in your gut. And so when they say the gut is the second brain, the second

[00:21:53] brain, yeah, I mean, it might be the first brain really, you know, on some level. But

[00:21:58] definitely the second brain. And, and so, um, you know, I just, like all of a sudden, I could breathe again and I, you know, for that nine, ten months, I was so hard because, and I get it so much more now.

[00:22:28] Like everywhere we went, what I would notice was the homeless people, you know?

[00:22:36] And I would notice the person who would maybe was trans and was cutting themselves, right?

[00:22:46] Like, and I just didn't see that stuff before, right?

[00:22:50] And the war in Ukraine and like,

[00:22:53] just all kinds of stuff that I couldn't do much about.

[00:22:58] And that I just hadn't had that kind of an impact on me

[00:23:03] before started to just crush me, you know?

[00:23:08] And I'm still, you know, like,

[00:23:12] I'm still working out all the lessons

[00:23:15] from this whole thing, you know?

[00:23:17] But one thing that I have a lot more compassion for

[00:23:21] is just the whole arena of mental health, you know? And so, um, so

[00:23:29] I just, you know, for nine months, I just could not help it. I was so depressed. I didn't want to do anything. I couldn't bring myself to work.

[00:23:40] All I noticed was the bad stuff. I mean, blah, you know,

[00:23:42] All I noticed was the bad stuff. I mean, blah, you know.

[00:23:45] That's crazy.

[00:23:46] It was crazy.

[00:23:47] Especially coming from you, John, like,

[00:23:50] and this is just an outsider looking in

[00:23:52] is like, you know, John has a good head on his shoulders.

[00:23:55] He understands how to enjoy the present.

[00:23:58] I mean, anybody who's read power versus force once,

[00:24:02] I feel like that's like a default

[00:24:04] where you could always go back and be like, you know,

[00:24:07] let me look at the conscious collective,

[00:24:09] let me look where my mind is focusing.

[00:24:11] But it's just the truth.

[00:24:13] Like, you know, we can't help it.

[00:24:15] We can't help.

[00:24:16] And if like your physiology is messed up

[00:24:19] and all your everything is getting messed up,

[00:24:21] like it affects the brain and like it's out of control.

[00:24:24] For sure.

[00:24:25] That's wild.

[00:24:26] And I printed out the levels of consciousness from power versus force and I put them where

[00:24:33] I could see them all the time.

[00:24:36] And I really worked hard on bringing myself up from that like shame and those low negative vibrations,

[00:24:47] I really would work to bring myself up.

[00:24:51] And it was hard work, you know?

[00:24:54] It was so weird.

[00:24:56] And you're right, like everybody that knows me really,

[00:25:01] really well was just like, what are you talking about?

[00:25:04] Like John Bates, what?

[00:25:06] You know? And so, you know, it was really nice to finally get what was going on,

[00:25:14] explain to me, and be able to fix it, you know? But I just, I never understood hopeless like that, you know, feeling that hopeless.

[00:25:29] And so to anybody that knows that or is feeling that like, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry and please

[00:25:40] don't give up because as long as you keep going, something you'll get out of it somehow, you know?

[00:25:48] Got to keep moving for sure.

[00:25:51] It's got to keep moving.

[00:25:52] Yeah. You do. You got to do something.

[00:25:54] You know, do something every day, whether that's, you know,

[00:25:56] speaking personally for what's worked for me over the years

[00:25:58] is just having some sort of sense of accomplishment day to day,

[00:26:01] whether that's sweeping the floors, taking the trash out,

[00:26:04] something that you can say in a positive rather than,

[00:26:06] all I did was eat junk food and not get off the couch and was in my jammies all

[00:26:09] day. We're all in time to have those type of days and everyone's going to look

[00:26:12] at it differently. But the other thing I would say is, you know,

[00:26:14] friends and family, great support groups, you know, I know sometimes it's hard,

[00:26:18] because people want to recluse. Like you said, they don't want to return the phone

[00:26:20] calls or like, it's too much. I can't deal with it right now. But yeah, for me,

[00:26:24] like for me, the support was crucial.

[00:26:25] I was very fortunate to have people that I could call

[00:26:28] and lean on and be like, hey, man, I'm not doing well.

[00:26:30] Do you have a minute to hang out and talk about it?

[00:26:32] So but not everybody's that fortunate.

[00:26:34] So I think it's just being aware.

[00:26:36] Good on you for calling.

[00:26:38] And one of the things that I noticed is that

[00:26:41] some of my friends that I really love and

[00:26:45] that I respect and that I know care about me when they've heard

[00:26:50] what was going on with me like they just ghosted me, you know,

[00:26:53] yeah, because I think people don't know what to do about it,

[00:26:58] you know, they're like, that like, and it gets real, and

[00:27:01] everybody's got their own stuff going on and all of a sudden

[00:27:03] like, oh my God, I can't handle it.

[00:27:05] Or I want to give him some space and I let him call me.

[00:27:11] You know, so if you know somebody is going through that, you know, like I know somebody's

[00:27:18] going through that right now and I just text him.

[00:27:20] And I don't care if he texts me back.

[00:27:22] I text him, Hey, I love you.

[00:27:23] I'm thinking about you.

[00:27:24] You're awesome. You know, text me back if you want, right? And, um, and I know how much those texts

[00:27:33] mean, you know, because I didn't get as many of them as I would have wanted to. And the ones that I

[00:27:40] got really made a difference. Yeah, it just kind of shows, you know,

[00:27:45] who's there for you, so to speak.

[00:27:47] And not to say that's a deciding factor

[00:27:50] on who's a true friend and who isn't.

[00:27:51] Cause some people do get over well and they pull back.

[00:27:53] You know, well, I don't want to get involved with that.

[00:27:56] He's, you know, I'm going to give him space.

[00:27:57] You know, that's kind of a common reaction I feel like,

[00:27:59] but sometimes just like you said, just dropping that text,

[00:28:02] Hey man, love you thinking about you.

[00:28:03] I hope you're doing well.

[00:28:04] You know, we do a lot in our friend group and I think it's encouraging you said, just dropping that text, hey man, I love you thinking about you. I hope you're doing well. You know, we do that a lot in our friend group

[00:28:06] and I think it's encouraging to keep everybody uplifted

[00:28:08] and you know, it's just, it's good habits to get into.

[00:28:11] But isn't that okay?

[00:28:12] So, so I'm just, look,

[00:28:14] like life has beat me down a little bit.

[00:28:16] So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go off

[00:28:18] on a little rant here.

[00:28:19] And if everyone could bear with me, that'd be great.

[00:28:22] So I think it's funny how like when times are good,

[00:28:26] how people like arrive to ride the fucking cocktail.

[00:28:29] And I'm gonna just start dropping some swear words.

[00:28:32] It's a great team, bless.

[00:28:33] Yeah, but like when things are good,

[00:28:35] like people just wanna like start riding a cocktail.

[00:28:38] Like it's all good, this dude has momentum.

[00:28:40] Like, you know, he has energy, he has stuff going on.

[00:28:42] Like I can ride that cocktail. Like it's all good.

[00:28:45] But then all of a sudden, like when things get a little shifty

[00:28:48] or like, you know, you might need a little assistance

[00:28:50] or like maybe I need a little bit more like,

[00:28:52] Hey man, you got this.

[00:28:54] Maybe I need some encouragement.

[00:28:55] You know, and then all of a sudden, like, you know,

[00:28:58] people, people like that shouldn't even be considered a friend,

[00:29:03] first of all.

[00:29:05] They can be acquaintances and peers that we can still learn from.

[00:29:09] Like I'm not putting them in a negative box, but maybe they don't earn that place that's

[00:29:15] so close to our heart.

[00:29:18] And it's kind of silly how it works like that.

[00:29:21] People always want to ride the co-tail or jump on the band wagon when it's good.

[00:29:25] But when things are bad, you know, they turn a blind eye to it or like they don't want

[00:29:30] to, they don't want to deal with it, you know.

[00:29:32] But here's the thing is like there is always good and bad constantly happening.

[00:29:38] And it's really like a level of choice and focus.

[00:29:41] And sometimes that choice and focus is out of our control and we can only focus on the

[00:29:45] negative. But there is still that good there. So it's really important to, and look, I've been

[00:29:53] guilty of it too. I've had friends that are dealing with things and they don't always get me back,

[00:29:57] they don't always call me back or come through or this and that. And I get a little like, you know,

[00:30:03] I thought we were boys and you're not reciprocating this friendship.

[00:30:08] I'm not in that struggle like they were.

[00:30:10] And you know, everyone has their own struggle.

[00:30:13] And so this is a reminder to me,

[00:30:15] I wanna reach out to my buddy

[00:30:17] and just send him a quick text tonight.

[00:30:19] Yeah, I'm just gonna send him a quick text

[00:30:21] because I want him to feel well.

[00:30:22] But it's frustrating for me how people are,

[00:30:25] like all of a sudden appear when things are good

[00:30:28] and there's a lot of momentum.

[00:30:30] And then all of a sudden when times get tough

[00:30:33] or you fall off a little bit,

[00:30:35] like how people like disappear.

[00:30:39] And it makes me question the overall authenticity

[00:30:44] of the human experience.

[00:30:47] Like it's tough to find and I'm unfortunate.

[00:30:50] I have a friend group of about seven people who have been there with me for over 15 years

[00:30:54] or more and through thick and thin, through my opiate addiction, through weight loss,

[00:31:00] through my toxic relationships, like they've been there, you know? But the thing

[00:31:05] is, is that like a lot of people didn't stay and I'm like, and they're not really, they're

[00:31:11] not in my circle anymore. And I guess like it's almost like a blessing at the same time.

[00:31:15] But you know, I could go off on that one for a little bit. But I just what I guess what

[00:31:21] my point is, is that if you are willing to quit on your good friends

[00:31:26] when they're having a hard time, then you're weak.

[00:31:29] I'm just gonna go straight up saying like you're weak.

[00:31:32] You're not actually a pillar there.

[00:31:34] You're not actually a rock, a mountain for your friend group.

[00:31:36] You're not sturdy and steady.

[00:31:38] You're actually just going with the flow of life.

[00:31:42] You're, you know.

[00:31:44] Checking the boxes. You know, and I don't want to sit here and slander too much because that is also like a mental poison right

[00:31:50] Sit here and just talk about the negative

[00:31:51] But it's good to call it out like it is and and if people aren't down there for the halt hard times

[00:31:57] Just like the the cliche says if you can't accept me on my worst day, then you don't deserve me on my best day

[00:32:02] Right and sometimes it's And sometimes it's crazy how, and then you feel alone, because you're going through a

[00:32:08] hard time and then the people that you thought you could count on are no longer there for

[00:32:13] you.

[00:32:14] And you thought you could count on them and then it makes you feel more alone because

[00:32:17] the people that you thought you were close to aren't there anymore.

[00:32:20] Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:21] Like the whole thing.

[00:32:22] Yeah, I know.

[00:32:23] I appreciate getting me the mic space there,

[00:32:25] but I had to go off.

[00:32:28] Well, and you know, I totally agree with you.

[00:32:31] And what I would add in total agreement is,

[00:32:38] I know that for some people in my life

[00:32:41] that I actually care about, I have done that to them.

[00:32:45] And so if you've done that to somebody,

[00:32:50] you can always change the story, right?

[00:32:53] Like if they're down and you've been ignoring them,

[00:32:56] stop ignoring them like right now.

[00:32:58] Send them a text and send them a text every couple days

[00:33:01] till they are feeling better.

[00:33:02] And you know, if you feel like-

[00:33:03] I'm guilty too, I felt that same way too sometimes.

[00:33:06] Yeah.

[00:33:07] Guilty of that too.

[00:33:08] So like, we do it, but I mean,

[00:33:10] but the real goal I think is to be there for each other, right?

[00:33:15] Yes, to the best of our ability, right?

[00:33:17] I mean, for me, I've always prioritized that.

[00:33:20] I've made that a priority to check in on my friends

[00:33:22] to maintain their friendships.

[00:33:23] Because, you know, why try to keep someone in your life

[00:33:26] that doesn't want to keep you in theirs?

[00:33:27] You also got to remind yourself of that.

[00:33:28] And sure we have distant cousins and people

[00:33:30] that we have to keep in touch with

[00:33:31] because of a last name or whatever.

[00:33:33] But those two people,

[00:33:34] like the Sean Antony is the world or the John Bates,

[00:33:36] the world people that you want, you know,

[00:33:37] to spend your time with.

[00:33:38] And the greatest gift you can give someone

[00:33:39] is the gift of your time, right?

[00:33:41] Our time is very valuable.

[00:33:42] And so, you know, as I've gotten older, I've learned, well, who do I want to spend my time with?

[00:33:46] It's the guys that have been there for me

[00:33:48] for all these years.

[00:33:49] I'm not really seeking, you know, new friendships.

[00:33:50] I want to continue to build on the ones I currently have

[00:33:53] and the people that I trust and build value in.

[00:33:56] Well, and you know, it brings up something

[00:33:57] that I've been thinking about,

[00:33:59] especially for the last three, four years.

[00:34:03] And I've had varying levels of success with this,

[00:34:06] but it sounds like you guys have a good group of friends,

[00:34:09] which is awesome.

[00:34:11] Most men are like in the bell-shaped curve of maleness,

[00:34:17] men are not very good at keeping friends

[00:34:20] and forming deep friendships.

[00:34:22] Our friendships are what they call shoulder-to-shoulder friendships,

[00:34:25] right? We go to the ball game together or we go hunting together or we go fishing together.

[00:34:31] We're doing something shoulder-to-shoulder, right? Whereas women in the bell-shaped curve of things

[00:34:38] get much better training in how to sit down face-to-face and talk about the deep subjects, right? And so we are not

[00:34:50] as men necessarily nearly as good at that as most women are. And we, I think it's a big part of the

[00:34:59] reason why we die 10 years younger than women, you know, is because we don't form those deep bonds of friendship

[00:35:09] with each other. We have friends and we have friendships. It's just that we don't, it's very

[00:35:15] hard for us to get to the point where we're talking about real stuff like you guys do here,

[00:35:21] you know, and that's why I love this. And it's what I've been trying to normalize

[00:35:28] among a lot of my guy friends. And it's hard. Like I have not I can't say that I've been

[00:35:34] tremendously successful, you know, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a tough period to break down,

[00:35:40] especially in 2024, like we talked about, right, you know, you got you've got the social

[00:35:44] media's you've got all this stuff, you know, a lot of folks just want we talked about, you know, you've got the social media's, you've got all this stuff.

[00:35:45] You know, a lot of folks just want to see the, you know, all

[00:35:47] glory, no responsibility, the overly painted pictures and the

[00:35:50] sugar-coated scenarios, so to speak, rather than cutting down

[00:35:53] to the hard stuff, right, and getting down to the fact that

[00:35:55] there's mental health issues.

[00:35:56] Maybe your buddy's struggling with something doesn't feel like he

[00:35:58] can't, you know, have that support.

[00:36:00] So I agree with you, John.

[00:36:01] I think, you know, arts done a tremendous job at, you know, his

[00:36:04] raw rants and bringing a lot of

[00:36:05] reality to it and giving us a safe place to be able to talk about things that matter

[00:36:10] and bringing it back to the roots, not putting the binky in our face as we had a

[00:36:14] guest called the cell phone, the smartphone. That's a binky.

[00:36:16] The binky, yeah, that's a great, it's what it is.

[00:36:20] Pick the binky out of here.

[00:36:21] Get the binky out of here, you know, and face reality.

[00:36:24] Totally, totally, totally.

[00:36:26] Totally, totally.

[00:36:27] Well, I mean, you know, that was one thing I did not realize.

[00:36:31] Like I said, it took me nine months to find somebody that was a competent, you know,

[00:36:38] mental health professional.

[00:36:40] And you know, it turned around in two weeks,

[00:36:45] but it took me nine months plus.

[00:36:49] And there is a massive, not only mental health crisis,

[00:36:53] but there's just a massive health crisis going on right now

[00:36:57] because of COVID and so many people left the profession.

[00:37:02] And there's, it's very hard to find competent

[00:37:05] people. And the way that the insurance companies run hospitals and things like I got a text

[00:37:13] from one of my good friends. And he was like, Oh, dude, they're just they've managed to

[00:37:19] just take all the joy out of being a doctor, you know? Like everything, it just sucks to be a doctor.

[00:37:27] Helping people is no longer fun.

[00:37:29] Right, exactly.

[00:37:30] And terrible.

[00:37:31] So, and I hate to just sit here and complain about it,

[00:37:35] but I do think that-

[00:37:36] No, this is a vent, this is a vent.

[00:37:38] We're not complaining.

[00:37:39] And there's a fine line between venting and complaining.

[00:37:42] We haven't crossed that line.

[00:37:43] Agreed.

[00:37:44] Okay, I mean, and I do think that it's important

[00:37:49] to raise awareness about this and just have people go,

[00:37:52] because like, unless you've really been sick

[00:37:54] or unless you've really been depressed recently,

[00:37:58] how would you know that there's like,

[00:38:00] it's really hard to find anybody right now, you know?

[00:38:05] Yeah, we can take you like,

[00:38:06] our next appointment is in three months.

[00:38:09] And it's like, that doesn't work.

[00:38:11] So you're like so depressed,

[00:38:14] you're in this mental state where you feel like

[00:38:17] you're rock bottom and you are in desperate need

[00:38:19] and you're starting to actually look for it

[00:38:24] and then you get hit with a three month wait period.

[00:38:27] Yeah, dude, that like-

[00:38:29] That's tough, that's tough.

[00:38:31] That sucks.

[00:38:33] You know, right?

[00:38:37] So I learned a lot through that whole experience

[00:38:40] and I would like to think I was a pretty compassionate guy

[00:38:43] before but I'll tell you man, that increased my compassion level quite a bit.

[00:38:50] Well, I appreciate you being vulnerable while talking with us and open it up about it.

[00:38:55] And it's what we do here.

[00:38:57] You said this, but you said this, you were like, hey, this might be a little uncomfortable, but I'm going to get vulnerable.

[00:39:03] like, hey, this might be a little uncomfortable, but I'm gonna get vulnerable.

[00:39:04] And that's the thing,

[00:39:06] because there is this stigma, especially with males,

[00:39:09] where it's, how do you display feeling vulnerable?

[00:39:16] You know, because men are supposed to be, you know,

[00:39:19] masculine, strong decision-

[00:39:21] No, man, we're tough.

[00:39:22] Yeah.

[00:39:23] You're resilient, you know, in this-

[00:39:24] No crying in baseball. No, man. We're tough. Yeah. You're resilient. You know, and this is- No crying and baseball.

[00:39:26] Exactly, exactly.

[00:39:28] But it doesn't mean that we don't feel the emotions regardless, you know, but it's just

[00:39:37] we bottle them up.

[00:39:38] So you're right.

[00:39:40] We do have a great peer group over here, Kevin.

[00:39:41] I and we're both so fortunate to have each other and all of our friends.

[00:39:46] Of course.

[00:39:47] And we do have a safe place where we can have some serious conversations where even if

[00:39:52] people disagree, they're not going to like ram down our throats.

[00:39:56] Like we can disagree respectfully sort of thing.

[00:39:59] We're just like, how do we break that stigma for men because look I do feel like there's an appropriate place for

[00:40:07] venting out a male's emotions

[00:40:10] Yeah, I feel like that is more with the peer group if if you're in a romantic relationship, you know same sex

[00:40:18] opposite sex whatever that doesn't matter but

[00:40:22] All this stuff is not always necessarily the best place to vent in a relationship.

[00:40:26] Right.

[00:40:27] So you can in a relationship still stay that sturdy man that is strong and this and that,

[00:40:34] but you need to be able to still vent to your peer group.

[00:40:37] Yeah.

[00:40:38] So I feel like my feeling is important.

[00:40:40] Exactly.

[00:40:41] And there's a right and a wrong place to do it.

[00:40:44] However, you, whatever

[00:40:45] you're trying to sustain. So how do you think America is the biggest superpower? So we'll just

[00:40:53] use America, this country, God bless it. How would you think that is the best way for American men

[00:41:02] to start being able to be vulnerable and show their emotions.

[00:41:06] Like what do you think would be the best way to make this happen?

[00:41:09] It's a great question and it's funny how we got around to this because in my work for the last 15 years,

[00:41:17] I feel like one of the biggest things that I've been bringing to the world is helping these top level leaders at places

[00:41:27] like NASA and Johnson and Johnson and Boston Scientific and you know, Motorola and all those places.

[00:41:34] Coca-Cola, the list goes on. Right. Oh yeah. So I pinch myself, I totally pinch my, I just got to train Houston mission control flight

[00:41:46] operations. So that was that was another bucket list right that

[00:41:51] goes right up there with training the astronauts. And I

[00:41:54] totally pinch myself. But one of the really really working on

[00:42:00] is helping these you know male and female executives

[00:42:05] find their authentic voice.

[00:42:08] And one of the things that I tell them,

[00:42:11] I've got the three ways to connect with and inspire

[00:42:14] any audience anywhere, anytime.

[00:42:16] We could go through them.

[00:42:17] But the first one is the one that's most pertinent here.

[00:42:23] Less Brown, a very famous public speaker, just beloved and awesome.

[00:42:29] He told me a long time ago, people don't connect with your successes. They connect with your

[00:42:36] messes. Your message is in your mess. Now, if all men took that on, right? Well, okay, so where is a big mess that I've

[00:42:49] had in my life? Where is a place that I've got a massive vulnerability and I'm embarrassed

[00:42:54] myself or I screwed something up? And the crucial part is what did you learn from that?

[00:43:03] And then you tell that story, not only do people not think you're

[00:43:08] less of a man, they think you're more of a man, they think you're courageous and they

[00:43:12] think you're generous for sharing that with them, right? And it took me 15 years to come

[00:43:18] up with this or close to 15 years. So I'm putting a TM on it, okay? But I call it insightful vulnerability.

[00:43:29] Insightful vulnerability.

[00:43:30] It's not just what's wrong and, you know,

[00:43:35] oh, poor me, it's no.

[00:43:37] Here's where I screwed up.

[00:43:39] Here's the mistake I made.

[00:43:40] Here's how dreadfully embarrassed I was.

[00:43:43] And here's the lesson I learned.

[00:43:47] And now you can share those vulnerabilities and you can open up to people about things

[00:43:54] and you're giving them the lesson that you learned and now they don't have to go through

[00:43:59] that same horrible thing to learn that lesson and we love that.

[00:44:03] That actually makes people think that you're stronger,

[00:44:06] not weaker, you know? So that's it. Yeah, totally agree. Yeah. So that's one of the things that I've

[00:44:16] been dedicating my life to, you know, over the last 15 years is helping people get that vulnerability and that authenticity out in a way that's real

[00:44:29] and makes them actually look good, not worse.

[00:44:35] You gotta celebrate some of the failures

[00:44:37] before the successes, so to speak,

[00:44:38] and that can apply in a couple of different ways, right?

[00:44:40] I mean, we've sat across the table here

[00:44:43] at 249 episodes in with so many people that tell that same story

[00:44:46] Well, it was shit before it was good or

[00:44:50] Take a second, you know and just hearing those stories is motivating as you know inspiring

[00:44:54] Entrepreneurs so to speak or whatever the case may be so I could agree with that that platform more because you know

[00:45:00] Like we did here tonight being vulnerable and putting that out there people say okay

[00:45:03] These guys are just full of themselves. This isn a you know a motivational sort of you know thing. It's we're getting stuff out. We're relating

[00:45:09] We're we're we're trying to show that you know the world that it's okay to have these things and still go about your normal day to day

[00:45:15] Yeah, totally and everybody has them right there's that whole i'm the only person with imposter syndrome, right? No, you're actually

[00:45:26] the only person with imposter syndrome, right? No, you're actually not the only person. In fact, everybody has imposter syndrome, like everybody has it on some level or another.

[00:45:33] So if everybody has it, let's just divide by it and get rid of it, you know?

[00:45:39] And it is like speaking from experience, from my own experience, of course, and that would

[00:45:46] be admitting to being an addict for a really long time, tackling weight loss.

[00:45:55] After finally overcoming some of these things, which I still must stay diligent with.

[00:46:05] There's no finish line to this in my mind.

[00:46:08] Yeah, no, there's no finish line.

[00:46:09] There's nowhere to go.

[00:46:10] There's no finish line.

[00:46:12] Yeah.

[00:46:13] We keep working.

[00:46:14] There's more work to be had here and we're going to keep showing up.

[00:46:18] You've got to enjoy the ride.

[00:46:20] That's right.

[00:46:21] But the feedback I've got from exposing you know, exposing my darkest and most vulnerable areas

[00:46:28] to where, you know, it's like,

[00:46:29] oh, that's disgusting.

[00:46:30] I had my car's repoed, all this, my credit sucked.

[00:46:33] Like all this stuff was happening.

[00:46:36] The feedback, like, yeah, people do actually

[00:46:39] relate to the messes more.

[00:46:40] And the reason why is because everyone

[00:46:42] is sitting in their own garbage heap,

[00:46:50] you know, and until you realize that that you know, it's a dumpster fire all around us all the time, you keep your pile cleaner, whatever, like it is a mess. It is a mess and like it's about

[00:46:57] making it's about seeing the beauty within the chaos because chaos is an essence in life.

[00:47:06] It's never gonna go away.

[00:47:07] And there's a lot, look, this is a crazy world.

[00:47:10] Like they're trying to get us

[00:47:12] from 20 different angles at all times.

[00:47:15] But even though there's snakes in the grass,

[00:47:19] there's still clouds in the sky,

[00:47:20] there's still birds in the sky.

[00:47:22] And you can walk around and stomp and still look up. And like, I don't know what kind of analogy I'm trying to come up

[00:47:29] with here, but it's so it's so true. Like there is this strength and even like for feminine

[00:47:36] too, but I'm just going to focus on the men here a little bit. There's a masculine strength

[00:47:42] to admitting to issues and admitting that a problem was

[00:47:46] had and I faced it and now I'm trying to take the next step in life.

[00:47:51] You don't even have to have the solution.

[00:47:53] You don't even have to have resolved the issue.

[00:47:56] The fact that you just bring it up and talk about it in a real circumstance, there is

[00:48:01] a lot of strength there.

[00:48:02] And I feel like with how society

[00:48:06] works, I don't know if most men actually acknowledge their issues or, or feel like they can bring

[00:48:14] it up or, you know, you would know more than that.

[00:48:17] Yeah. Yeah. They've been conditioned. I mean, I think overall the condition puts you down

[00:48:21] in condition. Yeah. Absolutely. In Dr. Nade, did you name it?

[00:48:25] I mean, the list goes on.

[00:48:26] And yeah, to your point, it is.

[00:48:28] It's about kind of taking control, finding solutions,

[00:48:30] breaking down barriers, moving forward.

[00:48:32] And it sounds easier than it is, right?

[00:48:34] Oh, we can just see and spew all these cliches.

[00:48:36] Yeah.

[00:48:37] But it takes constant effort.

[00:48:38] I think that's the thing.

[00:48:39] But the first thing I do is be aware of it, right?

[00:48:41] If you're not aware of it, then how do you correct it?

[00:48:43] If you're just in complacent boulevard. You know, typically speaking, people will do more to avoid pain

[00:48:47] and they will to gain pleasure. We've learned this. You're here to stay on complacent boulevard.

[00:48:52] Yeah. Well, you know, it reminds me of the Japanese concept of wabi sabi. Have you heard of that?

[00:49:03] I don't think I have if I have, I'm going to need a refresher.

[00:49:06] So I'll refresh you. Yeah, because I, you know, during this whole thing, my octogenarian mentor,

[00:49:14] who got how much pain I was in and how much I, it really helped. It's this Japanese concept of imperfect,

[00:49:28] impermanent, incomplete, and yet still beautiful. And maybe even more beautiful because it's

[00:49:36] imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete, right? And that's life. You know, Like that's what you were just talking about.

[00:49:45] And like, you know, it's imperfect, it's impermanent

[00:49:50] and it's incomplete.

[00:49:52] And yet it's still just so incredibly beautiful

[00:49:58] when you can see it, you know?

[00:50:01] And I was really resisting the imperfect,

[00:50:04] impermanent, incomplete aspect, you know?

[00:50:07] I was like, I don't want it to be like this.

[00:50:09] And guess what?

[00:50:12] When you're resisting,

[00:50:13] you just gotta play ball.

[00:50:14] Like the rules are the rules

[00:50:16] and it doesn't matter if you like them or not.

[00:50:19] Yeah, he's just gotta play ball.

[00:50:21] That's so true.

[00:50:23] And it's interesting because if you can remove yourself from all

[00:50:29] the mental noise that we're blessed to have the brains that we have as humans, like the

[00:50:36] amount that we're able to think process and contemplate is amazing. We're so fortunate,

[00:50:43] but it's a gift and a curse right? Yeah, sure

[00:50:45] But the the more that you can and look this is not my stuff. I the power of now

[00:50:50] I read this in that book power of now. I love that book. It's been look. I've read it

[00:50:55] I've read it like three times, you know, there's some books in my and my repertoire. I'll just keep rereading them

[00:51:00] Yeah, I'll keep self-help. It's good

[00:51:03] but but there's one one phrase in there,

[00:51:05] I'm gonna paraphrase it,

[00:51:06] and it talks about being present,

[00:51:08] and whether you're on a walk,

[00:51:10] you're sitting at your apartment,

[00:51:11] whatever you're doing.

[00:51:13] Just you sit there for a moment,

[00:51:15] and then you start to hear the noises around you.

[00:51:18] You hear the furthest noise away from you,

[00:51:20] you hear the closest noise to you,

[00:51:22] which is normally your breath.

[00:51:24] You think about your breath,

[00:51:25] and breathing in deeply is essential to life.

[00:51:29] And as you take that deep breath, your body is thankful.

[00:51:33] Like even if you don't recognize it,

[00:51:36] every single time you breathe,

[00:51:37] your body is so happy that you're breathing.

[00:51:40] You know, and then like I go on a lot of walks.

[00:51:43] So this next part for me, I'm going to relate to walking.

[00:51:47] I listen to the wind.

[00:51:48] I hear the traffic.

[00:51:50] There's all this life around me.

[00:51:52] How many hundreds of thousands of blades of grass

[00:51:55] are like whispering in the wind right in front of me?

[00:51:59] And then all of a sudden you realize

[00:52:01] that there's like this life essence

[00:52:02] and there's all this life around us.

[00:52:04] And it's really beautiful.

[00:52:07] And there's also death in that field.

[00:52:09] Like there's insects killing each other

[00:52:10] and all these other like hocks out there.

[00:52:12] And like, you know, and so there's like this life

[00:52:14] and death and like beauty and it's all happening.

[00:52:16] And it's right, it's all happening right now.

[00:52:19] And it's like once you really dial into that

[00:52:21] and you take those deep breaths and you realize,

[00:52:32] I'm alive in this moment. I smell the air. I can smell the season in the air. I can tell it's fall. I can tell summer's almost here. And you breathe it in. That is something that I believe

[00:52:40] will bring most people out of a depression. If you can put in a mental effort to focus

[00:52:47] on the now more and it's so important. It's so important.

[00:52:51] Totally. Whatever you said made me like go on that journey. I had to accentuate that.

[00:52:56] That's awesome. I love it. And that is a great book, man. If people haven't read the power

[00:53:02] of now, it's a quick read and you read that right at the top of the list, right?

[00:53:07] The power now is a must read for sure.

[00:53:08] I actually have it in my possession.

[00:53:10] So I got to get that back to you, of course,

[00:53:11] but it's good to have stuff like that

[00:53:13] that you rotate through every now and again.

[00:53:14] And just filling your mind with positive stuff,

[00:53:17] obviously, yig and yang,

[00:53:18] everyone's going to want some garbage TV here and there.

[00:53:21] And that's okay.

[00:53:21] Re-emotivational stuff.

[00:53:22] It's all a balance, right?

[00:53:24] And you got to do it works for you. I think that's okay. Re- with it because you can go too far in any direction. You can get overconsumed with it. You can not look at it all and get focused on the negative.

[00:53:46] Like we talked about power versus force.

[00:53:48] And some of the great things that come from that,

[00:53:49] positive affirmations and the conscious collective level,

[00:53:52] all that stuff's good to be aware of, right?

[00:53:53] We don't wanna let it overconsume your day

[00:53:55] to the point where we're like overthinking everything.

[00:53:57] I think everything has that balance.

[00:53:59] I don't know, part of me,

[00:54:00] because even in power versus now they explain like

[00:54:04] enlightenment,

[00:54:05] which is a level of 1000.

[00:54:07] Right.

[00:54:07] And you know, like pure enlightenment,

[00:54:09] like they leave society and like go live in the woods.

[00:54:13] And like that, that's how you hit that pure level

[00:54:16] of enlightenment.

[00:54:17] Yeah, like you disassociate yourself

[00:54:20] from society completely.

[00:54:22] I mean, you know, so look, I think,

[00:54:24] and like a sabbatical, I think that's fair.

[00:54:27] Like you can't do that your whole life.

[00:54:29] Right. Maybe you can.

[00:54:31] Maybe you go sustain off the land and you're just happy alone.

[00:54:34] But like if you can't share that with humanity, you can't pass the torch

[00:54:37] pass and give the information and like share the experience.

[00:54:41] Then it's a little selfish, right?

[00:54:45] I mean, I think it's a good question because I don't I know what you're

[00:54:50] saying. And I know that the standard picture of enlightenment

[00:54:53] is being on a mountain by yourself and stuff. But I think

[00:54:56] that there have been some avatars that were enlightened

[00:54:59] that played a part in society. And I don't know that it's always so easy to fit in

[00:55:07] at that stage, you know?

[00:55:08] It's not.

[00:55:10] So most people are depressed.

[00:55:12] Like what would they say?

[00:55:13] Like, and this is when I did my first read,

[00:55:15] they said 85% of the human population resides

[00:55:19] underneath the level of 200,

[00:55:21] which is the critical level to where everything under 200

[00:55:24] takes away from life, everything above is the critical level to where everything under 200 takes away from life.

[00:55:26] Everything above is perpetual and gives to life.

[00:55:28] But then the average collective was at 215 or 216, just above the negative level.

[00:55:35] So 15% of the entire population was offsetting this 85% majority on the collective scale

[00:55:46] because of the essence that is within themselves.

[00:55:50] So that was always super interesting to me

[00:55:52] because then it shows that like,

[00:55:53] hey, even though there might not be many of us

[00:55:55] optimistic thinkers, silver liner thinkers,

[00:55:58] or this and that,

[00:55:59] like you actually have a much bigger impact

[00:56:02] and John, you opening up and talking about the surgery

[00:56:06] and going through your own mental struggles there.

[00:56:08] Like from somebody that has had your levels of success

[00:56:12] to feel a load than to bounce back,

[00:56:14] like that's important to share.

[00:56:16] It is.

[00:56:17] I feel like that's really important to share

[00:56:18] and I'm happy that you opened up on that.

[00:56:20] Well, thank you.

[00:56:21] Thank you.

[00:56:22] I appreciate that a lot.

[00:56:29] Because it's certainly certainly, you know, I mean, it's a little uncomfortable. But if we don't talk about it, then it doesn't

[00:56:33] benefit anybody, right?

[00:56:36] Yeah, rather than burying it for a rainy day. No, it's good.

[00:56:38] It's good to get it out. It's not easy. It's not easy to have,

[00:56:41] you know, real conversations about that and where people act

[00:56:43] because they don't want to be viewed as vulnerable or weak.

[00:56:45] Right.

[00:56:45] But actually, like Art was saying, I actually think that's a sign of strength is

[00:56:48] to be able to go down and visit those, those hard times and say, man, that's

[00:56:51] where I was and be able to have that self reflection.

[00:56:53] It's tough.

[00:56:54] And it's, I think it's a good reminder for me even to just, you know, focus on

[00:56:59] day to day, what, what, what am I happy for?

[00:57:01] What am I thankful for?

[00:57:02] What, what can I work on?

[00:57:04] You know, what worked, what didn't work? You know, it's just so easy to get in that routine of just checking the boxes. Yeah. What am I happy for? What am I thankful for? What can I work on? What worked?

[00:57:05] What didn't work?

[00:57:06] It's just so easy to get in that routine of just checking the boxes.

[00:57:09] Yeah, I did this.

[00:57:10] I did the podcast.

[00:57:11] Great.

[00:57:12] Now I can go home, play video games.

[00:57:13] It's easy to get in place in Boulevard.

[00:57:14] I have to remind myself of that.

[00:57:15] That's why I like doing these kind of things because it's a reminder for not only the viewers

[00:57:18] and the listeners, but for myself.

[00:57:20] I got to hold myself accountable as well.

[00:57:22] Sure.

[00:57:23] Yeah.

[00:57:24] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:57:25] So we want to ask you the same question that we ended our first episode with.

[00:57:32] Do you recall?

[00:57:33] I don't think John's going to be the question.

[00:57:35] Do you recall the question?

[00:57:36] You know what?

[00:57:37] I know I probably could.

[00:57:39] It's okay.

[00:57:40] Many of you tell me I will, but...

[00:57:42] No, it's okay.

[00:57:43] Kevin, you've run this one.

[00:57:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:46] So the question we ask, of course, every guest on the program is that if you could offer

[00:57:49] one piece of advice that if everybody heard this with better humanity tomorrow, what would

[00:57:54] that piece of advice be? So I would go to my life's work for that.

[00:58:08] And I would say that the best piece of advice

[00:58:13] that I think I would have for people is to,

[00:58:18] and I'm talking to the people that work

[00:58:20] on the light side of the force, okay?

[00:58:22] People on the dark side, this is not for you, right? This is only for people on the light side of the force, okay? People on the dark side, this is not for you,

[00:58:26] right? This is only for you on the light side of the force. If you really want to be influential,

[00:58:36] if you really want to make a difference, if you really want to be a great leader, a great employee, a great person, a great father, a great mother, whatever it is,

[00:58:47] you must be willing to share yourself and make an emotional connection when you communicate

[00:58:56] with the people around you. And I have a good saying to help people remember that.

[00:59:01] Communicating with human beings is not logical.

[00:59:05] You may have noticed.

[00:59:07] It's not logical, it's biological.

[00:59:10] And one of the most fundamental pieces,

[00:59:13] one of the most fundamental pieces of biology

[00:59:16] and communication is that until you have

[00:59:20] an emotional connection, nothing you say matters.

[00:59:24] have an emotional connection, nothing you say matters.

[00:59:31] So how can you genuinely authentically connect

[00:59:36] with those people that are around you that you're working with, that you're talking with,

[00:59:38] that you love, that you care about,

[00:59:41] try a little harder, you know?

[00:59:43] Look, be willing to just be conscious of the fact that you need to make an emotional connection. That is what has communication work.

[00:59:53] Great advice. Great advice. Kind of be unapologetically yourself, so to speak, right?

[00:59:59] Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, as a, as a little preview on my 100th podcast, I have Kelly Stetsel as

[01:00:07] my guest. And she was the woman who was in charge of conferences at TED for a long time.

[01:00:13] And so, you know, she got to work with the speakers. She was the one who picked most

[01:00:17] of the speakers. And I asked her, what is your number one piece of advice to anybody

[01:00:22] who's going to give a TED talk? What was your number one piece of advice? And she said, be the most yourself that you can be. And I was

[01:00:31] like, Oh, yeah, I love it. That's good. That's good. No, that's real good. That's the juice

[01:00:37] right there. Yeah, we squeeze a lot of fruit. We got a lot of juice out of it. I have to

[01:00:41] say this right here and look,

[01:00:49] for anybody dealing with addiction of any sort, you are not an addict.

[01:00:51] I want to completely eradicate this whole perception

[01:00:57] that because you're addicted to alcohol,

[01:01:00] you're an addict for life and that you're powerless

[01:01:02] to your substance, I want to eradicate that.

[01:01:05] So like saying to what she said to you, which was be your most authentic self that you can

[01:01:12] possibly be. No one is at their root drink in a bottle. No one at their roots popping pills.

[01:01:19] Like that is not you. That's not a addict. You can overcome that. Yeah.

[01:01:25] So be yourself and I love that advice.

[01:01:27] Great advice.

[01:01:28] I'm just gonna, I could go off on that for a minute.

[01:01:30] I'm just gonna make it quick.

[01:01:31] Yeah.

[01:01:32] It's great advice.

[01:01:33] You know, it's good advice.

[01:01:34] Yeah.

[01:01:34] And that can mean a lot of things for a lot of people.

[01:01:36] So great advice John, of course.

[01:01:38] You know, you do amazing things obviously,

[01:01:39] coaching a lot of great companies like we talked about.

[01:01:42] This would be a good opportunity to plug kind of,

[01:01:44] you know, where you would like to direct some of our viewers and listeners, you know, to the business

[01:01:47] side of course and anything else you want to plug, here's your opportunity. Well, so there's a few

[01:01:52] things I'll offer and really I want to offer them as opportunities because for the right people,

[01:01:58] these will be opportunities not like a sales pitch. So the first thing is my weekly mini

[01:02:05] trainings that are two minute videos that come out every Sunday.

[01:02:09] And when you first register for them, you'll get a series of seven emails

[01:02:14] welcome you aboard for the first seven days. And then it'll go over to just

[01:02:18] every Sunday morning, you will get a two minute video around leadership and

[01:02:23] communications and stuff. I call them micro

[01:02:25] trainings. And if people want to get those for free, they can go to bit.ly, b-i-t dot l-y

[01:02:33] forward slash john Bates and that you can sign up there. And they can also find me at john Bates

[01:02:39] dot com and executive speaking success dot com. And I don't know when you guys are gonna publish this.

[01:02:46] We're talking, you know, March 6, 2024 right now.

[01:02:50] But in early April of 2024,

[01:02:53] I am gonna have something that I don't do very often,

[01:02:57] but I'm gonna do a Speak Like the Leader experience

[01:03:00] where I teach my course online over eight weeks

[01:03:04] and people create a Ted like

[01:03:05] talk.

[01:03:06] So if they want to know more about that, they can email me john at johnbaits.com and

[01:03:12] you know, sign up for my weekly mini trainings and I will mention it in there.

[01:03:19] And I'll give people, you know, if they mention discussion combustion, I will give them a

[01:03:24] really great savings on that and a great deal. So, um, and you know, I love to come in and work with teams

[01:03:32] and I love to work individually with executives. What I find is that people tell me that my

[01:03:38] trainings that I do, they like them because they can bring in the receptionist and the president and everybody in between and everybody gets something and is glad they were there

[01:03:49] for that day and it massively increases their trust and their ability to

[01:03:55] collaborate it's great team building so if anybody's interested in that please

[01:04:01] reach out to me and I can tell you a whole lot more about it and maybe we can do some great stuff for you and your team.

[01:04:09] Absolutely. We'll send them your way. This episode will be dropping on March 7th. So tomorrow.

[01:04:15] You guys are fast.

[01:04:17] For anyone listening today, it's out today.

[01:04:20] And definitely check out John Bates. I mean, yeah.

[01:04:22] And definitely check out John Bates. I mean, amazing person, vulnerable person, real human.

[01:04:27] That is what we want is genuine interactions.

[01:04:30] And John, look, it was great catching up with you, man.

[01:04:33] I'm really happy that we stuck it through

[01:04:35] and reconnected this week.

[01:04:39] I don't know why, but I feel a little emotional saying this.

[01:04:41] I got a little tear in my eye,

[01:04:42] but it's great to connect with you.

[01:04:45] And we can't wait to continue to network with you

[01:04:49] and help each other grow.

[01:04:50] Thank you, thank you.

[01:04:52] You made me feel emotional too, thank you.

[01:04:55] And thanks for having me back you guys.

[01:04:58] And congratulations on 246, is there no 249?

[01:05:04] Yeah, 249 is this is the

[01:05:06] fourth yeah yep quarter to a thousand next week so uh...

[01:05:09] right along traditional fashion around here we're definitely gonna want to get

[01:05:12] you back as a repeat guest hopefully next time we have you

[01:05:15] on the couch in the studio just across from us here you're one

[01:05:18] saying it is it just happened

[01:05:21] uh... just hop right over the uh... hop right over the Rocky Mountains and I'll be there.

[01:05:26] Yeah, come on over the continental divide sit on down on the couch have a chat with us.

[01:05:29] You know, maybe we do that in 2025 we can make that a I think in a

[01:05:32] painful way or maybe later in 2024. You know what I mean. If you're looking here in Denver

[01:05:39] we don't always need a record on Wednesday nights we can record on Saturday we can move

[01:05:43] we can move if you're in Denver just hit us man. We'd love to connect. All right. If it's not for a show,

[01:05:49] we get to go have some tea, some beer, whatever you drink. It doesn't matter.

[01:05:54] We'll just link up. It'll be great for sure. I didn't shit. If we get my guys again.

[01:05:58] Next to that be awesome too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come see us in Denver for sure. John, thanks for

[01:06:03] spending some time with us. We're going to get on out of here. Viewers and listeners, thanks for your continued support.

[01:06:07] Be good to yourselves. You deserve it.