How to Stay Sane in a Crazy World | Journalist Sage Kelley | DCPC #320

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts, Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe. What's up? Welcome back to Discussion Combustion Podcast. This week, we have a local legend in Denver, a new legend in Denver from the East Coast. We got Sage Kelley. Hello. In the building.

[00:00:30] Legend is crazy. I'm getting there. That's my hopes one day. I know I'm just getting to know you, but I truly do feel like you have a legendary status. Yeah, you think so? I do. I'm getting those vibes. Yeah. My parents gave my name. Everyone says it sounds like I should be a rock star. And I'm like, well, you know, that ship sailed. But there's Sage Kelley. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it was named after an anime character actually. Really? Yeah, it was all bizarre.

[00:00:58] I do know some anime, but I don't know. Some random obscure shit from the 90s. I was supposed to be a girl and then I literally came out a boy and it was a rush. And my older brother at the time was small and it was like his favorite character was Sage. So they were like, oh, fuck that works. Switch the name. Yeah, switch the name last one. Over to Sage. Yeah. What's your older brother's name? Seth. Seth and Sage. Yeah. And then Finn is my younger brother. Okay. So just the three brothers?

[00:01:26] Uh, yeah, but we're all separate dads. Okay. No, actually, sorry. My older one's a separate dad. My younger one's a separate mother. So we're all half brothers. How's that growing up? Um, my older brother's about six, seven years older than me. Same way. So, and his mom is my mom, but his dad's not my dad. So when my parents separated, like we were kind of away from each other for a while. We kind of reconvened back when we were adults, but. That's kind of cool. Cause my brother and I are six and a half years apart. Yeah. We were young. Me too.

[00:01:56] Six years. We were brothers, you know, we were brothers. We hung out and stuff, but like now it's different. Now that we're adults. Right. Conversation. Like the age gap feels closer than once did. Yeah. Once you hit like, I don't know, mid twenties. Yeah. Yeah. But it also gives you like, I was actually having this, this conversation earlier today is like, it gives you better perspective on things too. Like I have friends and stuff that are like just a couple of years younger than me, but they didn't have an older sibling and they just like kind of missed all of the nineties culture where like I got it just in, just from seeing my older brother doing stuff.

[00:02:26] That's a good point. Cause I got all my brother's hand-me-downs. I got the super Nintendo 64. Right. You know, and he always had the new shit. Right. Which is, that's a good point. I never thought of it that way. Yeah. Cause the nineties, I think we're the best decade. I know we're a little biased cause we grew up in it. Right. You know, but the coolest shit, the coolest toys, you know, the coolest shows, movies, I think all my favorites. So here's one, here's one major sign. Hot wheels cars. Oh yeah. Do you guys know where I'm going with this point? No, I have an idea. You flip them upside down. Oh yeah. The underbody. Look at the undercarriage.

[00:02:56] Look at the detail. Yeah. And the nineties hot wheels. And then now they're giving us flat. It's just flat and says hot wheel. Right? Yeah. Like what happened to the undercarriage? Good point. What's up with that? There was an excessiveness to I think everything back then. Right. It's just like, everything was just like, so in your face. And loud. Everything was loud. Yeah. And new. Yeah. Like rap music was new. Yeah. Like techno. Grunge. Was new. Yeah. Korn and like, yeah, all that type of like in metals. Like all that was happening.

[00:03:26] Yeah. In the nineties. That's what I'm saying. It was a great, I mean, again, we grew up in it. So we're maybe, cause people say the eighties for sure. Sure. My brother was born in 1982, but he still grew up in the nineties. Right. You know, you're like a nineties kid. If you're born in the eighties kind of, kind of. Yeah. It's whatever you were an adult or not an adult, but like at least five when you're conscious, right? Like you become conscious at like five, like everything before that's got it. Yeah. Technically I'm not a nineties kid, but because my brother was like, yeah, like you said, like I got a lot of that stuff.

[00:03:55] I wouldn't, grew up with like a Sega, but I did because my brother had one and passed it down to me. So I got a lot of that, that yeah. Cause I was born in 96. It's interesting. It's interesting because it really was like a turning point and society because the internet was starting to come out too. Like it really didn't exist before. Yep. Like emojis. Like I was, I was telling somebody the other day, I'm like, I'm like, dude, like millennials basically like you were telling me created the foundation of what everybody else is working

[00:04:25] off. We created the gifts. Yeah. We created the emojis and like, and like, that's what everybody's kind of still doing. Sure. Like 20 some years later. But now it's like, they've simplified the language now. I don't even understand it. Like with, with the younger culture, like a lot of the acronyms and stuff that is used and in certain verbiage, like it goes right over my head. Yeah, man, I'm out of it. Like, I think sometimes people look at me like, Hey, like, what's this? I don't, I have no clue, dude. I am. They turned to you for all the answers. Yeah. Like Sage Kelley knows. Yeah.

[00:04:55] That's been my life. You know, Sage wise. It's kind of been. Sage the wise. I know I'm not very wise, but I try. No, I take it back. Yeah. You need to take it back. That I'm wise. You are. And like a, I mean, like, and I definitely, I feel like I've been around the block before type of vibe. And like, I've been like, I've been that way my entire life, but I think that's just growing up with adults. I just think everybody has no matter, like our self perception is very important. Yeah.

[00:05:23] And, and we should all believe in our own superpowers as our own individualism. Like, it's kind of what I'm getting at. Right. And I'm kind of critical about it. And I couldn't sit here across the table from you. Yeah. And, and hear you say that you're not a wise person because I, I guarantee you that you have some like gems. Well, here's the thing is I just say that as, as taking a dig at myself, I'm actually the most egotistical person on the planet. I know I'm wise.

[00:05:52] I'm a genius, you know? So, you know, but I'm definitely. I've heard a couple of writers say it that way too. Is that a writer thing? Is it a writer thing? It might. I mean, they, it's like all jokes aside, it takes some level of ego to be like, people want to read what I have to say. Yeah. So we say, yeah, exact same with what you do. Yeah. And like, I, I mean, I tried to do podcasting before as well. There's definitely a level of like, yeah. Like people want to tune into here with these knuckleheads have to say. Right. We have. Hey, we're not. Hey now. Only sometimes.

[00:06:21] So like, what do you think about, because AI is like, you know, we've been talking to on this show for a long time. It's becoming more and more advanced. Um, the show has been around since before it. And that crazy. It can essentially like write an article. Yeah. So what, as a writer, like, what is your take on, on that subject? As in like, could it replace me?

[00:06:46] Or, or, or like, you know, because I have my own opinions about like, why I think there's a lot of value in writing my own sentences. Of course. Yeah. You know, and like not giving it to AI or a prompt to create the sentences or like, you know, you can even write full sentences into AI and like, it's still very original and might just help with structuring. So it's like, you know, as a current writer, everyone's using AI nowadays.

[00:07:11] Like, I'm curious, like what you're doing to not fall behind the trend, but also still not let it take over, I guess. Well, I mean, first of all, like going back to what you were just saying about everyone kind of has a unique like aspect and just because everyone grew up different. Yeah. Like, AI can't do that. Right. It's just, it would never be able to take emotion and like personal experience to granted. Right. Or well, it takes it for granted.

[00:07:38] So like, just within writing a paragraph, I'm going to leak into it in some way, shape or form. And you don't get that as much as journalism because my job is to kind of be unbiased and try to just write cold, hard facts and use other people as, as kind of that vessel for opinions. But like, as far as just writing, writing, like you're going to feel it. You're going to pick up the words that, that I am comfortable with using or the words that I think are cool.

[00:08:05] And like, sometimes that, for example, like if you put like a paragraph of mine, cause like now you have like grammarly and stuff that are like run AI, right? In the, in the background. And that kind of makes it boring. It's like too professional. Right. So yeah, that's what I was going to say is like, it'll pop up sometimes and be like, cause we still use it in a lot of publications still use it for just grammar checks. Right. Cause I just spell check. Yeah. Spell check, normal stuff like that. But like, sometimes it'll pop up and be like, Oh, let me rewrite this sentence.

[00:08:33] Like using your voice or something like that. What the AI is thinking it's picking up. Shit sucks. Like it's, you know, like, it's just like, you can tell what AI is like in one day, maybe this will change, but like right now, like even to the aspect of like, you can, if you see an AI video or something, like you guys are tech enough to know. Some of them are like getting by though. I can tell about the audio. Like some of them are pretty good. The audio is not quite there yet. Yeah. Like you'll hear like the voices and it's like, no, you can hear it.

[00:09:03] It doesn't have an, like a, it's emotion. It's too robotic. It's uncanny. I guess like it's uncanny. Yes. We're definitely uncanny. Yeah. And predictable. But I do think there's a lot like the elderly, you know, they're, they're preying on them big time with it. Don't get me started. So there is one scam that I saw where like, and I'm super like anybody who's calling me nowadays, like, I feel bad if I don't have your number saved because you're not answering. No. When I answer, I'm not really saying much or I'm like answering and saying like, yeah, but I

[00:09:30] have a do or like stupid as shit because there's AI scams that will call and pick up on your voice, your talking tone, like your cadence and all this stuff. And then it will call your spouse as the spouse and say like, Hey, I have an emergency. I need gas money. It sounds like the person you love. And then, so like, I already came up with a safe word with my spouse and I, like we have a safe word. And if it's not saying this word, then it's like, okay, like, yeah, smart. Yeah.

[00:09:59] Like we have to prepare for it. So that is smart. Yeah. I'm kind of like super. And it's always AI calling me anyway. Nowadays. Like, like it's just AI is calling. Yeah. And I also hate the, like the pre-screening stuff now too. And it's good. This isn't AI, but it's kind of related, like calling someone to be like, please say who you are and why you're calling. And I'm like, okay, like I get it for efficiency, but like, we're just, we're as much as we can take human interaction out of the whole situation. We're doing it. Like, aren't you surprised when you answer your phone and go, hello?

[00:10:29] And they go, Hey. And I go, Oh shit. What's up? What's up, man? Yeah. So yeah. But like to the AI fear and like, listen, I am not qualified to speak on AI. Like, um, I do a lot of coverage of data centers. I have my opinions on that, but like AI itself. I don't know. I, and it's, it's always just, we always fear whatever's new. Right. And I'm not saying that I think like, Oh, let's not fear AI and let's not question it and worry about it.

[00:10:56] But like the scam thing, for example, like that happened to me when I was in college in like 2015, but they just like, they got all of my information off of Facebook or whatever. And then they called my grandfather. Oh, there of course they picked the oldest person they could probably find in my Rolodex. And then they like just say, and they were like, I busted my lip. I'm like in jail. I need bail money. But then 2015. Yeah. It would have been like either 15 or 16. Yeah.

[00:11:25] A lot of that was being rolled out then. Yeah. So like 10 years. So like people are always going to find ways to, to try to get you like, obviously. Yeah. AI is scary and that everyone's using it for stuff and who knows if it's going to become overlords, but like all you can do is just keep, I have a conspiracy. Keep your head on a swivel for sure. Cause we said this before you got here, like everyone's trying to fuck somebody literally and figuratively. Yes. But that was the same way when the internet came out. It's very true. These kids like, yeah, the same fears.

[00:11:53] Like, I remember the chat rooms, like an AOL instant messenger. Yeah. You'd end up in some dark areas sometimes. Right. You know, it was, it was, it was new and it was unknown. So you were curious, like, who is this? Right. So like, I'm not saying I'm a proponent or opponent, but also like, just, I feel like fear is always going to be built in and like, I can't sit here and worry about it, you know? But anyway, conspiracy theory, go. That's a great point in that subject kind of. Yeah. Like we could be afraid of it, but we can utilize it, try to understand it.

[00:12:21] But I think the greatest thing that you're saying there is like, you know, right now is pretty good. And like, that's the present moment. When else is life occurring? It's only happening in the present and like just letting go of it. Now, I think that's the healthiest thing we could possibly do. And just be in the moment. We know what it is. Right. And it's like, neither, none of us are making decisions on this thing. No. Like you're making the decision whether or not to use it. And of course there's like some moral standpoint to that of like, well, I'm like, I'm going

[00:12:49] to make this image and it's going to use eight gallons of water in some country. And like, yeah, but I mean, you weigh those yourself, but like neither of us are going to make a change in what AI is going to do. We're going to do so far beyond. Yeah. Especially when it comes to like the environmental impacts. Yeah. I've kind of always said that about recycling too. Not that I'm anti recycling. There's just not enough people doing it. Yeah. To actually make that impact. And a lot of that is a scam in itself. I had a buddy in the waste management industry.

[00:13:15] He didn't work for waste management specifically, but he was like, dude, we're taking the recycling and putting it right in the landfill. Yeah. Isn't that wild? But they're charging the patron extra for it. What's up with that? So that works like twofold to break you. Right. Because there's always like, and I, I tell this to, to my, you know, younger friends that don't vote on like any election. It's like that idea of like, well, my one voice, is it going to make a difference? Well, if everyone, then it's 50,000, 50 million. Right.

[00:13:44] But then when you find out that the recycling actually isn't going anywhere, if you can find cold proof of that, like, then you're like, oh fuck. Well, I guess I was right. So it's kind of that give and take, right? Like they have to have the responsibility, but that's a good point. So do they. Yeah. So if I find out that, like, if I find out that the water situation is with AI is even worse than like, I'm going to go out of my way to not use it.

[00:14:09] But I can't not because even just a Google search now, like run some type of AI. Isn't that crazy? And I don't even think you can turn that off. Like it's just integrated into it. So that's where the trouble really comes with, with, sorry. The trouble really comes with my career is that that's fucking us over because now people aren't clicking on websites at all because it'll even pull from the website. You know, if you Google. Oh, I see. Yeah. Just take snippets of info. Right. And it'll link it.

[00:14:39] As a source. But it's getting all the meat without even. Right. Yeah. So there's no click through. Interesting. Yeah. So the whole way that advertise, like ad sales work on Google and stuff used to be click through and how long someone was on that page. But now we're getting all our info that we provided to them. They're getting it right in that AI box and we're not getting seeing anything from it. So that's like, that's the scary shift of how they're going to find a way to do that and find a way to monetize that stuff.

[00:15:09] That's concerning. Yeah. That's definitely concerning. I mean, being in journalism just as general is concerning, but like, yeah, but that's definitely the scariest one. For sure. Yeah. Because that's where everything falls back. Well, and this is like, there's no guardrails right now because there's no full understanding of the capabilities. Right. And there's, it's like anything online is potentially just completely fake. Satar. Like, and so to back to the conspiracy that I wanted to mention first time you're probably

[00:15:39] hearing this. I've said it before on, on this program, it's a newer conspiracy that I have. Okay. I believe that AI came up with the idea for all these data centers. Like somebody was working with their AI that was super rich and they're like thinking of a way that they can make money with construction and like building all these things. And how can like, I turn around and, and AI was like, Hey, build me my own mothership. So like, that's, that's kind of what I think.

[00:16:08] I don't think that's far out of the realm of possibility. Right. Yeah. Cause like, if you, I mean like you, you listen to someone like Elon Musk and you're like, you either are selling this to us to try to like get some type of upper hand or you really believe in this. Yeah. And much so much so that you would ask it what it should, what you should do for it. Right. Yeah. Like tell me what to do. I don't. It's possible. I don't think that's easy.

[00:16:36] I mean, we're at that point where people are asking it like daily choices. Like, should I eat this? What? And in some areas you can give it your weight, your, you know, your nutrition of the day. And it's like, here's a plan for you. Yeah. You know, but it's taking that responsibility piece of it, the accountability piece. Like when you're solely relying on chat GPT. Yeah. Which is a tool I use. I'm not throwing them under the bus. But I mean, I've been hearing stories and we've, we've talked to like a lot of, you know, therapists and life coaches on this program where they're turning to that and, and sharing

[00:17:04] their life stories with AI and like, it's becoming their friend. And as we learned in the Terminator, it's not going to end well. Right. And also like there's AI psychosis, right? Where like people are getting, because it's like, it's still at the end of the day works to please you. So it's bias. Yeah. It's bias. So if you're trying to talk to it, I mean, I can literally just be like, Hey, I don't ever say that to me again. And it won't. Okay. Yeah. So you like worships you almost. Yeah. So you can fine tune it. And now there's the pornography with it and the sex bots.

[00:17:33] That's where it's going. Well, an interesting theory for you is like every advancement in technology mostly has been like sex related in some way. Sex sells always has. Right. Exactly. So I'm not going to disagree with that. No. Yeah. It is what it is. You can pinpoint like every advancement in technology and be like, well, it was probably someone was thinking, how can we put porn on this? Or how can we sexualize it? Yeah. How can we sexualize it? Yeah. Put some phallic image on there. Some hidden message. I think it goes back in the seventies, the billboards, right?

[00:18:03] Especially with cigarettes. You were in Marlboro. Yeah. Like they really, they made it look sexy. Yeah. And it's sold. Yeah. And it's has worked generations. Like I collect Marlboro, it's like vintage Marlboro stuff because like, I don't smoke anymore, but like there's something like so obscene and like absurd about it. Like you're saying where it's like, I think it's so funny that like a lot of the items that I own in my closet, someone had to smoke a certain amount of cigarettes to get it. They're sending the, you know, the, the packs and shit. And I'm like, pretty funny actually. Yeah.

[00:18:33] That's why I like it is there's such a consumerism aspect to it too. Right. So yeah. And it worked in generations. Cause I mean, my, my grandfather was a, he smoked until the day he died. My parents both smoked. And you're not smoking. It was probably better in his day though. Like it was probably more purely tobacco. That's probably true. So like, okay. So kinesiology, attractor fields. I'm just going to say it really quick. Pure tobacco tests positive.

[00:19:01] But when you have these cigarettes with all these additives, like it removes the pureness. The purity. But just like pure 420, like pure marijuana, like is going to test positive and hemp and pure tobacco tests positive. So, so that's an interesting thing. Yeah. It's that whole idea of like, Oh, it's a plant. You can't, you know, um, make a plant illegal. Right. It was always the argument for weed. It's like tobacco. People are using tobacco for years.

[00:19:31] That's not the problem. Well, it wasn't that George Young's argument that you see below one of my favorite movies with Johnny, Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp. No, I've never seen it. Oh, you gotta see that. Oh, that's a great, great movie. And it's a true story. Okay. So, you know, he's a drug runner, but he's biggest cocaine guy. He started in weed. He gets arrested in like Illinois and he's like looking at the judge. He's like, I don't see what I did is wrong. He's like, I brought some plants across an imaginary line. Right. You know, where's the crime in that? And they're like, well, sir, you brought illegal plants and those lines are real. And here you're going to prison. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this was like late sixties.

[00:20:00] And that's what, that's what it kind of, I don't smoke weed anymore, but I used to well before it was legal. And it was more fun then. Well, it also scares you, right? It was more fun then. Yeah. But like, it's like now it's like, well, now that, now that big whatever's got their hands in it. It's concerning. Yeah. Or what are they putting into it? Like I can only imagine that shift in cigarettes where it became big tobacco and people were like, Oh, this is turning my fingers yellow. Yeah. You know, what is this going to do?

[00:20:29] Well, the vape industry is just plowing through them now. Yeah. I mean a good old classic Marlboro turns out is probably healthier than smoking this. Strawberry banana. Yeah. Fucking app. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I can't speak. And like we're an opinion based program. Sure. Right. Exactly. For entertainment purposes only. It is. Yeah. But I would say that like a full fledged, full flavor Marlboro is probably less unhealthy than the vape, than a vape.

[00:20:58] Well, I mean, I could just, I could just speak and experience that quitting cigarettes was significantly easier than quitting vape. Okay. So you had to do both. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And I quit, I started cigarettes first. It's like I says that generational thing to me, cigarettes were cool. They were. When I saw your hat, it reminded me when I was 14 and we don't condone a minor smoking cigarettes, but it reminds me of when I was like 14 sneaking out till 1am a quick story. Yeah. Um, I snuck out with one of my friends.

[00:21:27] He would always have cigarettes. We went down to the local park and we were smoking cigarettes all night. And then like there, we were sneaking home because we snuck out and like the lights were on at my mom's house. I was like walking through this field and I could see the house and the lights were on and I was like, Oh shit. Yeah. And so it turns out like his dad was like, where the hell is my son called my mom? And then my mom was like, well, they're not here. So where in the hell are the kids? We were at the park smoking cigarettes. Classic for hours. Try to pull that.

[00:21:57] Your hat immediately reminded me of that. Try to pull that. I'm staying at his house. He's staying at my house thing. Yeah. That doesn't work. Back four cell phones. It was before GPS was on. GPS. That's true. That's what we were. I was talking about this on, let's see, happy Friday tomorrow. So tune into that with Halloween, right? In the nineties. Again, we'd go out with our pillowcase. We'd get all the candy. There was no GPS trackers. We didn't have cell phones. Then there wasn't the ring doorbell cameras. It was arguably way more unsafe than trick or treating in 2026.

[00:22:26] Parents know where their kids are at all times. Good, good parents that keep an eye on things. You got doorbell cameras. So the crime is going to be much harder to pull for the folks that were scared of that. I think it was arguably more dangerous to trick or treat in the nineties than it is now. Yeah. I mean, statistically probably right. Like more things happened. I mean, I never looked into it, but just, it feels that way. I'm not sure. And I mean, it's a good question.

[00:22:49] Like there's definitely like to see what, what reported crime as a reporting reported missing people are like on Halloween as opposed to beforehand. And, and that just, sorry, my journalistic wheels get spinning there, but like, but there's also like the aspect of, and I'm going to get super like heady psychological here, but like closer knit back then. Because you had less, your world was less expanded. Mm-hmm. So you knew who all your neighbors were. That's true.

[00:23:17] And nowadays you don't need to go out and say hello to everyone. So there's not as much accountability. So they do the trunk or treats. They meet up in a parking lot and go get the candy that way. It's just different. Yeah. But I feel like it's more dangerous now because you don't know who two houses down is. Whereas you're saying in the nineties, we did know our neighbors. We knew which ones to avoid. I mean, I grew up in a small town, so that helped with that too. So did I. Very small town. Very. Yeah. Where are you from? I'm from Wolfboro, New Hampshire. Okay. Which is a nice little country town on Lake Winnipesaukee. Okay. Beautiful place.

[00:23:47] Gotcha. Yeah. From cornfields, man. Oh yeah. You said Delaware. So how far, cause I know, I think racetracks, that's how I measure distance. Yeah. So I know it's a, the racetrack was about two and a half hours south of Philly. Cause I worked Philly and drove down there. And so how far were you from Dover? Like 30 minutes south. Okay. Yeah. South of there. Yeah. South of there. Cause you were way out there. Yeah. In the fields. Yeah. In the fields. Yeah. It's funny. I was like, I, whenever someone out here specifically is like, where are you from?

[00:24:16] I always just say like to Philly area because it's, that's our closest city. Makes sense. Um, but then when I was thinking about talking to you, I was like, he'll know what Dover is. So maybe the only person on the planet that I know that would know what Dover is, but yeah, it's like, so I grew up close to there. Um, which is like right on that peninsula. Cause Delaware is a peninsula and then like has part of Maryland on it. Right. So, um, beach, um, but also absolutely fucking nothing on the other side. Nice beaches though. No.

[00:24:45] So they say, I mean, that's all I know. Yeah. Right. I've never been to the West coast, so I can't compare. Okay. I mean, Florida, like the golf is beautiful. Golf Florida. But that's not, I mean, that's the golf. It's not the Atlantic. So yeah, true. Very different. But all the beaches all up and down, I've lived kind of all up and down the East coast. Okay. It's all the same until you get up to your neck. To my neck. Have you been to Cape Cod though? No, man. That place is, it's amazing. Yeah. I grew up in New England and I didn't go to Cape Cod till this year. Really?

[00:25:15] Cause you know, Cape Cod was always like, you know, that's a fancy place. Yeah. And it is. Yeah. But there's no place I've ever been like it. Really? The beaches were tremendous. The food, the people, the energy, the atmosphere was great. And it's a different beach vibe up there. It's very, very different. Like even from the New Hampshire or the Northern Massachusetts beaches. Right. Cape Cod is just its own little world. Really? Yeah. I have to go up there sometimes. Like Nantucket. I've been in Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard, but it's on the list. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have some friends that work in Martha's Vineyard and it's very, apparently it's beautiful. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah.

[00:25:44] You definitely got to have some pretty deep pockets to live there. They just like spend like the season there, like just all living together, working and then come back with like a shit ton of money. I think. Yeah. Don't ask, but yeah, it's, but apparently the clientele is. Yeah. I don't know. Oh yeah. But I've never been north of like upstate New York. Well, yeah, I guess Buffalo is still pretty high north, but I've never been north of New York as far as states go. Yeah. But you've seen a lot of the East Coast. I mean, East Coast is East Coast.

[00:26:12] We're, we're all relatively the same. Yeah. I would say for the most part. Yeah. You guys are all the same. Well, I mean, relatively. You're from here. Yeah. I grew up with New Yorkers and then I met this guy from New England. Yeah. And, uh, basically you guys are all the same. Yeah. All assholes. Yeah. We're all assholes for sure. You guys definitely remind me of people from New Jersey. We all think we, we'll see. See now you might agree with me on this cause I'm not a big New Jersey guy. Okay. Right. No one likes New Jersey up there though. That's why I say that. Other than Atlantic city.

[00:26:42] I don't even like Atlantic city. It's kind of a shithole. You're right. Is it? I mean, it's like, it's our shithole. You know what I mean? But it's still got like, don't talk shit about it if you're not from there, but yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. But what were you saying? Just Jersey? So it's the garden state. I call it the garbage state. Sure. Cause it just reeks of garbage there and it is, I mean, a lot of New York shit just ends up there. Yeah. Also it's just, I mean it like, you can't take a left. You have to like do the dog handles. Yep. Yep. Huh. I mean, so I went to school in New York city.

[00:27:09] So I did a lot of driving the New Jersey. Oh, so you, you know, the turnpike. Yeah. Yeah. I've never spent actual time in Jersey. I thought it was weird how I couldn't like fill up my own gas. Yeah. That's like, I thought that was weird. It's full service only. I still, I don't understand why it's, I don't, I think they're just holding onto an old tradition. You think so? Like they have to keep people employed. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Like it's.

[00:27:36] And then, and then you like know that people aren't like, maybe it's a scam. Maybe it's a Ponzi scheme and like, okay. Because here's the thing. Like I saw these clips of people at multiple gas stations where they like pull their thing, they put their card, they pull the handle off and like, they're not pumping, but then like it's slowly ticking up either way. Yeah. There was a scam on that. So it's like, it was a put some people putting screws in the thing. So it would like, so yeah. Well, no, basically. So it's like, it's running up the meter without actually pumping.

[00:28:06] Yeah. Oh, I see what you're saying. Even though it's like, you know, 0.3, it's like, you know, 0.3 of a cent. So it's like, do that a million times. Yeah. Then it's going to add up. There's profit margin there. Yeah. Maybe they keep it. So people are doing, so people can't fully see if they're actually getting all the petrol that they're paying for. This is just my 2026 mindset. I mean, it's good to question everything. Yeah. What did something, something hurt you? How'd you end up in such a consistent? I went through it and he hasn't always been this way. I've known him a long time.

[00:28:35] I went through an existential crisis in April when they were resurfacing all of this, like files on Epstein and like, and all this stuff, like it was really getting to me. Yeah. And then also like over a year ago you had government officials and like department of defense officials saying that aliens exist. Yeah. And nobody is talking about it. Yeah. No one gives a shit. And so like now I'm like, okay, like what is actually real?

[00:29:04] Like AI and data centers and all these bots are basically the internet. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, other than meeting you Sage and like having my friends and like people that I actually interact with, you know, I'm like, I'm almost skeptical about everything now. And it's a weird place to be because I used to like really trust everything. Yeah. So that's what happens. Is that what they want you to be like? That's the question. They want you to question. They want you to be. It's possible. Well, okay. So here's one, here's one thing.

[00:29:32] Um, I have been hearing, and I believe this to be true, that the light has already won that the power of honesty, love, joy, acceptance is already won the war and all of the lower, like praying to Bali or ball or whatever, the devil and all this stuff, like they are exposed.

[00:29:56] And, and it's crossed a pivotal point in the spiritual battle, the spiritual war that no matter what they do to try to hide what they've done, it's only going to expose itself more and that we're already trending in a positive momentum of the light winning the spiritual war. So I've been hearing about this. It doesn't feel like people talking about it. And I want to just like lean in and think that that's true. I mean, it's definitely a belief system.

[00:30:25] And I'm more spiritual, not religious, but I do think that there's these other like entities at play with our lives. And like, you know, we all wear polyester clothes. Like why is a petrol, um, disposal runoff being cycled into our clothing? And like, if we are harmonic beings and like, we have an energy field and wearing non cotton and natural clothing and fabrics contains our energy.

[00:30:53] And then of course, let's normalize booze, put it on every single corner. Like there's all these things in like the high fructose corn syrup. It's not real food. It's like lab made. And then the lab grown meats, like they're attacking us from all angles to lower our frequency and make us more susceptible to more doom scrolling, more unnecessary purchases. Like, I feel like there's like a battle happening. Well, I mean, it could also be a self fulfilling prophecy there. Right.

[00:31:21] Where it's like, not necessarily like, um, like I don't disagree with like, I believe in affirmation and I believe in I'm spiritual, not religious. Obviously you can't not be either. Cause then you're just like losing your mind. Right. You have to have some type of reasoning for things, but like, it's kind of self prophesizing because the people that are using the hike or choosing the hype fruit.

[00:31:46] I'm not going to be able to say that high fructose corn syrup is a means of keeping things cheaper and mass producing things. Right. So then in that way, that's like, that's built out of greed, which in itself is a negative, like energy or emotion. Exactly. So I don't know if it's necessarily like someone being like, these are the strings we're pulling, but it just naturally falls that way because you're being driven by negative. Intentions. Negative intentions.

[00:32:14] Like the foundation itself is negative. Yeah. Yeah. So they're spilling on it. Yeah. Well, yeah. Cause they're not going to cut profit margin to put real sugar back in. Right. When we have this deal here with high fructose corn syrup that we've now learned is causing high rates of diabetes and heart disease. That they're ignoring. Well, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's definitely not at the forefront. No. And I'm not really sure what RFK is doing, but. Yeah. Don't get started. That shit, that shit's out of this world. It's, it's, I mean, yeah, I think we probably all agree on, on all that nonsense.

[00:32:43] Makes sense. Well, it's, it's just one of those things that like, it's a 20,000 different conversations within that subject. There is. And, and part of me being a warrior is mentioning it on platforms where we have a voice. Yeah. People should be talking about it. That way we're not accepting it. And I think that these should be conversations people are having at Thanksgiving and, and like, and we should be talking about serious things that potentially affect us all.

[00:33:10] Like if changing the fabric of clothing that you're wearing changes your mood and your energy, then it's worth looking into, you know, it's like simple things like that. It's free to take off your shoes, go stand in grass underneath the tree and get all the neutrons and like electrons from the energy of the earth. And like, that is free healing. And like, people think it's woo. And because there's no profit. Well, there's that, you know, it's that, but people do different things for different reasons. Like, like you lean heavily into that.

[00:33:40] It works for you. Some people might be like, I'm not going to do that. And they find it elsewhere. There is more than one method. Yeah, but it's also just everything you're saying is just separating yourself from like modernity. You're just separating yourself from technology. Like even the clothing, right? You're talking about using more, you know, like natural. Less man-made. Hemp, cotton. So either way, we're just going outside and staying in the grass is different than scrolling on your phone or whatever.

[00:34:06] So you're at the, at the basis of what you're saying is basically just like, take a moment to separate yourself. Become human. Become human. Smell the roses. Yeah. So it's not as, it doesn't have to be as heady as like you may make it, which is, that's not an offense, but that's just, that's where your mind goes because that's your belief system. No, I feel like we're in a war and like, I definitely portray it that way. So no, but you're right. You're right. But it doesn't have to be that. It doesn't have to be. If it sells someone on it. Like I'm all about, Hey man, you need to go outside.

[00:34:36] Yeah. Whether that be your vitamin D is loving you need vitamin D or you need to get away from your phone or you just need to get exercise because you know, whatever. So like, or in your sense, you need to pull yourself out of that kind of negative space and be in an area that's, that's emitting positive energy. It's all about balance. You know, I think it's, I tell my brother this all the time, him and I disagree on a lot of stuff. Hopefully he's listening, but you know, to be fair, but it is, it's, it's balanced. Cause I think we can go too far in either direction and it's easy.

[00:35:05] And I think there's profit to be made in either direction. And you know, we talk about the food. I worked in the, in the grocery biz for many years and I saw kind of gluten free come up. USDA organic. A lot of that started to become a label for profit when, when in fact the food wasn't necessarily organic. Only one part of the process was organic and then everything else. Yep. And that's all you need away with all these. Yeah. They find ways to sell everything. There's loopholes everywhere we look. Yeah.

[00:35:30] And also just like, but then once again, another kind of vicious cyclist, you just get so beaten down that dude, it's hard to go shop at whole foods. That shit is expensive. It is. Even King Soopers, man. Yeah. It's crazy. Like what the pound, the candy bag is like 40% you were saying. I was just doing an article on Happy Friday tomorrow. Halloween candy is down 6.7% in sales, but 40% higher than what they were retailing last year on the big like 160 packs. 40%?

[00:35:58] In some markets, some markets didn't take that much profit, but in the big markets. Yeah. It was like 26.99. It's 43.99 this year. Have you noticed that here? I haven't really paid attention to a lot of the pricing on candy, Halloween candy specifically. Okay. But I know it's significantly higher than it was. Well, you don't like notice that bullet until it like really bites you. Right. Which is why I like feel so much for people that, that struggle financially.

[00:36:24] Cause like, it's like you won't catch 20 cents, 20 cents, 20 cents, 20 cents, 20 cents. The next thing you know, your peanut butter is $12, but like before it hits, there's a threshold where you go, Oh wait, whoa, what? Like what happened? Yeah. Yeah. But otherwise I'm like, if it's under 10 bucks, whatever, I don't bat an eye at it, throw it in the cart and that could like kind of like the gas thing. You're like, just do it with a couple cents here and there, here and there, here and there. Yeah. Inflation is crazy, man. It's crazy. And it's, it's happening at a rate. That's just not good.

[00:36:53] No, not good. I don't know what the answer is, but you know, I don't know if it's price gouging. I don't know if it's just, you know, taking advantage of the situation at hand, all the loopholes we just discussed, but I mean, everything chocolate chips, a bag of little chocolate chips. I was talking to my mom. She's making cookies, $12 for chocolate chips. Really? It used to be like 299, 399. Yeah. Tripled in price. That is wild. So I, I know I get into like some doom and gloom, but like Sage, I feel like you do have the wisdom because earlier you're talking about just being present and like, I'm approaching

[00:37:22] it like, dude, this is a battle. It's a spiritual war. Or it could just be as good as like, I want to improve my daily life and, you know, go outside a little bit. Yeah. And, and there are all these different, I don't know if the dichotomy is like the right word or like a, like where there's all these things that are potentially healthier ways of doing life. And there's from mild to extreme. And like, that's one thing that like I was battling with is like, I was going to extreme.

[00:37:49] I was pissed off and like all this stuff and that's coming out and the distraction after this came up and then they distract us with this and you know, that's not healthy to be focusing on it at that level all the time. Yeah. And so like what you're saying as far as like having kind of like a balance is what I was picking up with what, how you were talking to me about that subject. And I agree with your perspective because like maybe they do want us there where we're all

[00:38:17] pissed off and like, you know, like, so it's like, where's the, this tight rope that we have to walk. Yeah. And I mean, I find, I find it hard to kind of have those discussions because I'm media technically. So like, so like I'm kind of an enemy in that front too, which is like a really interesting, I mean, Westward, um, not to plug Westward, but, um, no, let's plug them. Yeah. Uh, uh, when's this go up tomorrow? This will be out. Yeah.

[00:38:46] So 29th of October. Boom. Uh, I have the cover today. So go pick it out. Let's go. It's free. Just go to a Westward box and get it. It's a very interesting one. So, um, but, uh, yeah, it's like Westward, you know, we're not necessarily chasing like trends and stuff, but you end up with like a weird battle where it's like, do I want to platform this? But also you have to platform it because it's what's happening. Right.

[00:39:13] And you just end up in this weird spot where I know that like a lot of, you know, conspiratorial people or like, um, I don't know, just people that have kind of like a negative outlook on, on the way things are going, which should be all of us. But like a lot of them couldn't point fingers at media and say, you know, and I think that's mostly your national, your big national syndicated ones. Yeah. That trickles down. Does. And then people are like, oh, you're just a mouthpiece for this.

[00:39:40] And it's like, well, if it's what people are talking about, we're going to write about it. So, but like I said, sometimes you have to balance that line of being like, do we, is, is, are the clicks that we're going to get for this worth putting this in people's minds? Like when I first moved out here, I was a crime reporter. Hmm. Um, and, um, that's gotta be dark. Oh, it changed my life. I bet. Like, cause I, I mean, I lived in Philly for a while. I, I, you know, grew up in not the greatest area.

[00:40:10] I lived in Brooklyn for years and, um, never felt any problem there. I mean, granted I was younger and was drinking and you know, you, when you're younger, you kind of feel like you're invincible. Yeah. But moving out here, I was like, uh, no big deal. It's Denver. It's not that big of a deal. And even living out here for the first few months before I started working was like, this place is safe as all hell. That's not as big as a city is like New York or Philly. No. And I still agree with, with that. It's extremely safe.

[00:40:40] Don't get me wrong. But when you are constantly bombarded with every single little violent crime that happens cause I'm just watching a police scanner all day, it changes your entire perspective. You probably have to compartmentalize a lot of that. Like when I talked to some of my, you know, medical friends that are in the field, first responders, there's like a, a mental battle. They have to play with that. Yeah. Cause it can like ruin spill over in other parts of your life. It's the first time I ever started therapy. Really? And like, dude, I would be good for you to get it off your chest, man.

[00:41:10] I, yeah. I mean, it was just like looking over my shoulder for the first time in my life. And like, granted, like, I don't know when I lived in some bad areas of Brooklyn, I looked over my shoulder, but it was a more so like stick to yourself and no one will bother you type of thing. But like when I'm hearing about random stabbings and stuff all day, not that even that it's that much endeavor. I just heard every single one. You heard all the cool facts and all the things were happening. Right.

[00:41:36] Before it's even proven to be an actual crime because it's just, oh, someone self reported that they were injured. Gotcha. And it might've been an attack or there was an assault and a lot of this ended up being domestic and like, so on and so forth. But like, I'm like, Ooh, lock your doors. It's important. So kind of to stick on the theme here with the existential crisis I had and all this distrust

[00:41:59] and like walking that tight rope is it really feels like the simple sentence of observe and don't absorb. Yeah. Is something that is great to know. But for me, it's important for me to practice that. And it sounds like that's what you were also kind of starting to deal with looking at all these crimes. Yeah. Is the observing, but not absorbing the energy. Well, it's also trusting your sources as well. Okay.

[00:42:26] And that, and even more so than just like, who am I reading? But like, who am I listening to? Right. Who am I surrounding myself with? Like, yes, you're reading this publication as well for your news, but like, try to understand what their goal is and try to understand the people that surround you and what stories they're telling you and why they're telling you these things as well. Yeah. I mean, it's just the whole idea of surround yourself with things that you are with people that you want to be surrounded by. Right. But that goes from more than just that.

[00:42:54] Well, I think we're, I've said this many times where focus goes, energy flows. Yes. So like, like you said, the crime, and then you're like, Oh shit. Yeah. You know, if you're just obsessing over it or the news or this and that, and that's kind of a piggyback segue into a question I had. Sure. You know, we kind of touched on it with syndicated media and the term fake news and a term that we hear a lot. People are pretty loyal to their syndicated news reporters, I would say. And they tune into the, I'm not even going to throw names out. You probably can read my mind. Yeah. And they're just going to listen to what he or she has to say over every night, over and over and over. Yeah. I don't want to read anything else.

[00:43:24] This is my news. Yeah. I mean, how do you, how do you not change, but break into maybe a different way of media and reaching people that are just so stuck to one, I would say propaganda system rather than news. Yeah. I mean, I think I, it's tough because there's no way there's, there's such a fine line between or a thick line between national publications, you know, syndicated and, and stuff like Westward Denver post. Right.

[00:43:52] Because like, we're not really touching on the big national stuff. Right. Um, but we are doing really hard work with what we have locally. Sure. So I would say like, we have our entirely a different market, um, where it's not like trying, we're not competing with them at all because a lot of times if you see someone from like a CNN or, uh, AP, even like associated press or something like that, they're being parachuted in to cover something in Denver. They don't know the incident.

[00:44:21] So I don't think the markets really even battle as much as you would think that they would. Um, but the trust does. Right. Sure. So like, I would say like your local, you're usually pretty good off with your local papers because they're just a bunch of people like me that are just live in the city and trying to make a living and tell people what's going on. Sure. Nationally. That's when you start dipping into the, whose, whose hands are at play here because they're all owned by like billionaires or like three different.

[00:44:52] And it's for profit. Once again, hedge funds and views. Yeah. And you know, let's breaking news and Fox news alert and all these scare tactics. Right. I got to tune in. I got to listen. Right. You know? So what was your original question was what, how do you combat with it? Yeah. Like how does that integrate? Like for example, you got someone that that's all I listen to and then they're scrolling by and they're like, Oh, Westward, that's fake news. Is it even worth trying to get that viewer or that reader? No. It's not worth the time. I mean like you just keep doing what you're doing. Right. Right.

[00:45:19] Like you keep fighting the good fight and you hope that like fighting the good fight leads to your audience. Yeah. Like if you, if you work hard, someone will pick up and notice it. I mean, obviously there's the whole advertising and SEO side of things that I don't touch, but like, yeah, it's just, I just write what I write and, and what I think is interesting, what I hear other people talking about. And I just hope that people listen or find it interesting enough to listen.

[00:45:48] And even, even if you disagree with it, it's just the idea of like, Oh, that was a good question that that person tried to answer. Like me. I tried. I feel like, I feel like journalists and sorry. No, that's good. Okay. Um, I feel like journalism and journalists specifically is a very selfless, um, pursuit because there's a lot of risk in it as well. You know, with everything that we've kind of discussed, you know, we see journalists disappear

[00:46:19] after talking about certain subjects. And so there's like this fine line of, you know, you probably entered into that industry out of your passion to, you know, hopefully bring humanity up and, and like help raise awareness and, you know, what's interesting, what's fun, you know, let's make life fun and let's make it interesting. Like, I feel like those, if I were in journalism, that would be some of like my motivations.

[00:46:44] And then, you know, navigating some of the truths of reality, but in a way where you're being transparent, but also not risking your neck. Yeah. So I, I feel like it's anybody who does journalism and especially those who like go to conflict areas. Like that, that's wild to me. Like they got bigger balls than I got. Like I, I'll straight up just say that. Yeah. I would never, you couldn't pay me. Yeah.

[00:47:13] I mean, like, I think everyone does it for a different reason. I mean, the majority of people are doing it for the reason of, like you said, they want to share stories and try to get to the bottom of things that people care about. But I mean, there's levels to it, right? Like, like, yeah, of course I like part of me would have the desire to like crack open some type of like crazy case that wins me a Pulitzer or something. But at the end of the day, like, I'm not driven in that way.

[00:47:39] Um, where like, if it was like, my life was on the line, like war, you know, like you said, like going to, to areas of war or whatever, like a war zone. I wouldn't just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a big commitment to it for sure. Yeah. And it's like, you start to lose a little bit of that luster as well. I think if you would have asked me that question years ago, I would have, of been more on the line of like, yeah, it's important that people go and tell those stories.

[00:48:09] But now like, it's done so much of, so much of that really dangerous shit is done just via social media. I mean, we watched the Ukraine war happen basically. It's basically live 24 seven. Yeah. Yeah. So like, it's kind of different than like, you know, a mentor of mine was like there when they, you know, pulled down a statue in the middle of the East and like stuff like that. Like, it's like, it's not as important anymore in some way, shape or form.

[00:48:35] It's the world is smaller with the current state of technology. Yeah. Information travels instantly. Yeah. It's not that the, it's not that telling the stories isn't important because obviously you go people are like that, that do stories on refugees and, and, and their experiences and like what's actually going on post-war and stuff like that is good. But like, it doesn't feel important to other people anymore because it's moving so fast. Do you think it's because of desensitization or just overload? Both. Both. I feel, I feel almost like.

[00:49:04] Cause you see stuff now you're like, Oh, something else blew up. Yeah. So like, are you going to get like, like, is it worth my time to go over there and really like bust, bust my ass, put myself in danger. It's like, it's going to be read for two days and kind of. Yeah. The risk and reward piece. Yeah. But like I said, if it was like something that could really make a change, then like, that's worth it. But like. It's even riskier. Cause like the, the big things that we need to change, like. Someone's involved. We're questioning the system that we're living in.

[00:49:34] Yeah. Yeah. Which is, it's just why it's, it's wild times right now. So I can only imagine like being a journalist, the, the tight rope that you got to walk, but going back to what you were saying in the beginning, just making it fun, keeping it lighthearted and like being in the present. Control the controllables. Exactly. Like, I think that's really important as a reminder for myself and anyone listening that feels like I do about some of this stuff. Cause it's really easy to just like get obsessed with it. And then, and then you're just like, Oh, it's all fucked.

[00:50:04] And then you become a negative Nancy. Right. Like no one wants to be around. And we all know somebody who is that. Yeah. And it ties into what, what we were saying about, you know, being the one that takes part in something as well as like, once you hit that negative, negative mindset, you've lost being that person that is going, that one person that votes or that one person that recycles, those recycling examples bad, but you get what I'm saying. That one person that takes that step.

[00:50:29] Like if you put yourself in cynicism and you let yourself become like, nothing's worth it. Then. Then you lost. You lost the, the, the war. You did. The spiritual war is lost. The spiritual war. It's about balance. That's why it's hard for me to say that light is one. It's cause you see so much of that. But it's, it's, it's in the light. We're seeing it because it's exposed. Because it's exposed. Oh. You know what I'm saying? So. I misunderstood.

[00:50:57] I'm thinking like Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker type of like versus dark light, like illuminated. Well, it's like, maybe there's a like multiple meanings. Sure. Yeah. But like positive love, perpetual energy versus selfishness taking like, and for profit. Like, you know, so that like the light versus the dark as in like humanity and what is actually going to help rise all life. Yeah.

[00:51:26] But then also the light of exposing the darkness. So there's kind of like some multi definitions within that. Yeah. But, but yeah, like everything is exposed now. Like maybe we don't need to have journalists go there because it's all over. It's everywhere. Right. So like everything is getting exposed and, and people are calling it out more now than ever. I believe we're not drinking as much as a society eating fake sugar is down. Yeah. You know, people are trying to go back to natural stuff. Fundamental change.

[00:51:56] And also the, the, just the enlightenment on mental health too. I think it's really important that like we, I feel like my generation younger and going younger is like way more open with, with just needing mental health. Right. And that, that doesn't even necessarily mean like, it's not a negative thing. Yeah. It's not like, Oh, I need medication and I have some type of chemical imbalance, but more so just like a mental health day, which is like something that was unheard of when I was younger. Right. That's true.

[00:52:24] So I, I, yeah, no, you're right. I think like, it's just a, it's a rubber banding from things being so bad. Right. That you have, that you have like kind of the let's pick each other up type of mindset as well. Kind of coming. I would like to say the momentum is there. Yeah. And I like to share it with strangers. I like getting serious on, on the podcast and talking about like real things that kind of bother me. I mean, this is therapy, but in, in public, I love to just interact with strangers and bring up their energy and like being like, Hey, Oh, you're going to kill it.

[00:52:53] Or like, I'm leaving the gym. Somebody was walking in like, dude, the gym is awesome today. And then like, it's just a normal day at the gym. But when I say that to somebody, like I can tell in their body language, they're walking in the gym. Like, Oh dude, it's about to be popping in here. Like just instilling positivity into the society is. Yeah. Control the control. Yeah. Well, it goes back to the media thing where it's like, sometimes it's my job is hard. Cause it's like the harbinger of bad news too. Right? Like most news is bad news usually.

[00:53:23] So that seems to be what it's turned into as far as like, like we were going back to what's newsflash newsflash negative, negative, negative. Yeah. What's what people care about? It's unfortunate. Yeah. But that's why I love to like, just cover. I love to cover communities. Like if I felt like I just started this story recently on like the Tetris league. Okay. I've been meeting forever and it's just like, it's big. They just get together and drink and play Tetris based off a game that came out in what? That's pretty cool. Yeah. It was from the, that's a nostalgia meetup. Yeah.

[00:53:50] Ways that you can find, find each other, you know, ways that you can find community. I like that. Yeah. Cause it still exists. Yeah. That's one thing I love about this sitting down and talking, having real conversations. You know, we get serious and then we get a little goofy, you know, but it wouldn't be a full episode if we didn't talk food. Cause I always, I love talking food with, with people. Okay. And we're both East coast guys. Sure. We know what pizza is. We know pizza. Yeah. Okay. And we've had good pizza. My personal favorites, New Haven. Okay. So I've been in Colorado a long time and I've been searching for the best pizza in

[00:54:20] Colorado. Yeah. I'm sure you've had some places out here. It's not East coast. Give me your thoughts. I'm going to say something book wild, crazy. Okay. You ready for this hot take? Uh, lived in New York for years. Uh, I think New York pizza is overrated as fuck. Um, uh, beach time stuff is good. Like I've missed grottoes for sure. Uh, like that super just beachy, greasy fucking I'm walking on the beach and eating a slice of the type of slice of the sauce.

[00:54:49] Been to a lot of restaurants. Here we go. Best pizza I've ever had in my entire life. My favorite pizza place. I mean like I've had, okay, hold on. Let me rephrase this. I've had like really expensive pizza. That's fancy. That's like, Oh my God, those ingredients you'll never be able to get somewhere else. Like modern. Not counting that place that you can go get pizza and enjoy it. You know, it's reasonably affordable. It's a little pricey, but best place I've ever had pizza is blue pan. I had a feeling you're about to say that. Yeah. It's fucking blue pan.

[00:55:18] That is the best third Detroit style pizza. It's the best fucking pizza I've ever had when it's hitting. See, I'm not a Detroit pizza guy. Me either. Until I had talking about that one where they do like this, it's just super soft white cheese that they like do the dollops on. Yes. Like that. Yeah. That pie. I've had it. Yeah. It's phenomenal. He put that in his top three in Denver. Did he? I mean, Portnoy knows pizza. Yeah. I'm a little bit biased to his, the way he does things, but he's the king of pizza. Right. He's kind of related out to roadmap. So we've been on the hunt.

[00:55:47] We've tried places. I would say so far, do you go up to Longmont at all? Up to Longmont? Yeah. No, I used to work. I used to work in a Longmont publication, but no, I haven't been up there in quite some time. What? For pizza. Rosalie's. Shout out to them. Okay. Shout out to Clint. I still haven't tried it yet. I got to try this place. So far that's been the best pizza I've had in Colorado. It's close to Basil Dock's. I would say Basil is pretty good too. But it's that style I like. Real crispy undercarriage, good cheese. Right. I like that New Haven style with a little crisp. Yeah.

[00:56:15] I don't watch his stuff, but if I remember correctly, one of his top ratings was like near my area. I could be wrong. He gave a perfect 10. Where was that? Lynn, Massachusetts. Oh, damn. Okay. No. I could have swear there was one in like Pennsylvania somewhere. He's definitely, I mean, East Coast, he's in the high eights, low nines. Okay. Out here, if you get like a seven, eight, that's a pretty good score in Denver. Yeah. I mean, look, Denver is underrated as a food city. I agree with that. Okay. I agree that I just haven't found like, it's not a pizza city to me. No.

[00:56:45] And I don't think it's like, it's a hodgepodge. It's a hodgepodge. That's some really good shit. There is. Like, I don't. Yeah. And, and I agree with you in the sense that like blue pan isn't something that I'm like, like back when I was in college, it'd be like walking down the street, grab a slice. Well, especially in New York. Yeah. And that's what I mean, but in blue pan, I'm not like doing that. So I get your sense that maybe it doesn't hit that pizza mark that you're thinking. Mm-hmm. So when it comes to here, yeah, no, there isn't anything like that, but I've stopped eating

[00:57:14] pizza pretty significant. Like I've significantly less since I moved out here. Really? Yeah. Because it's like, well, growing up on the East coast, I didn't have like the way better Mexican out here. That's a good point. So I'm eating more burritos and breakfast burritos, especially too. Those are good. That's not something we really, I mean, I also grew up with like a one. So when you moved out here, what'd you think about the green chili? It's awesome. I fell in love with it too. Dude, it's awesome. No one knows what that is back here. It's like New Mexico and Colorado. That's it. Yeah. And West Texas. West Texas. Yeah.

[00:57:42] And I'm like, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a mid Atlantic guy. So I take my partner home. It's like, oh yeah, the food's so good. And like, yeah, there are great places. Like, you know, you can get the best sandwiches in the world in Philly. Um, agree. Uh, the Knicks roast pork is the sandwich of Philly. I don't believe that the Philly cheesesteak is the sandwich of Philly. That's my hot take to Knicks roast pork. Okay. I've never had a roast pork sandwich. Brother. I had one when I was out in Conchahockey. Is it like with the dipping? Like something? No, it's like, it's like finely shaped.

[00:58:11] Think of like cheesesteak style pork. Okay. Um, but they use, uh, broccoli rabe and a really sharp provolone on it. Okay. Um, yeah, dude, it's, it's insane. But also the bread is a really important part of, uh, any type of. I agree with that. It's almost like the most important part. Yeah. I'm a sourdough guy. Can we all agree like that the bread is the most important part of the sandwich? It is. Cause if you don't have the right foundation, you can't make a good house. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And the breads would hold it together. Absolutely.

[00:58:38] But back to my point is like taking, taking my partner home. I'm like, yeah, do we have such good food? And it's like, well, our staples are like crab cakes and boardwalk fries. So like, I don't know. First time I had turtle soup was in Philly. Really? I don't know. I'm not saying that's a Philly thing. No, it's not, but it is a East coast. When I worked in, I worked in Philly for about six weeks. I was in like Plymouth meeting, Conchahock and area. I don't know if you're familiar with those kind of suburbs in Philly. Yeah. Then I made the mistake of going to Geno's. Right. You used to live next to Pat's and Geno's.

[00:59:08] Cause I'm like, I'm in Philly. I got to go to what I thought was the best from, from discovery channel. Yeah. Dude, I waited like two hours and 45 minutes in line. No shit. I wasn't disappointed with the, with the outcome. You should have been. Is that the only cheesesteak you had there? No, I, I, I bounced around. I had some, like some, like some of the best I had was hole in the wall places. I can't remember the name of. Absolutely. Yeah. I was like, that's the Philly vibe. Yeah. Don't go to the big fucking discovery channel shit. Yeah. Yeah. But food was great. I will tell you, I mean like I grew, when I lived in Philly, I was like a block away

[00:59:37] from Pat's and Geno's and there's also a bar across the street. So I spent a lot of time there. Ate a lot of Pat's and Geno's very drunk. Cause they like open to like two as well. I know what they're doing. It's always the best after a couple of cold ones. Yeah. 1am. That's terrible. God, it's terrible. It's terrible. They eat really bad cuts of meat. It's really fatty. Like the whole cheese whiz thing is bullshit. Yeah. Like you get sharp. Real melted. Yeah. Sharp cheese whiz is a shortcut. Yeah. It's not real Philly stuff. It's not real.

[01:00:06] It's drugs. Yeah. Kind of manmade. Kind of manmade bullshit. Like what is it even? Yeah. It's cheese product. My dad kept telling me this story. Cause I'm like, I get on them sometimes. I'm like, dad, we shouldn't be eating this garbage. Like we can occasionally, but not daily. And, and I forget it was one of my family members is like his uncle or something was in Ohio, lived, worked his whole life at one factory 30 years.

[01:00:33] He like worked at one factory that produced filler. And my dad's like, what is this filler? Like, what do you guys produce there? He's like filler. It's basically this white stuff. That's edible. It has no nutritional value. It literally makes food larger. And this factory has been making filler for probably over 60 years. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I forget what the exact word for it is. Filler. Yeah. Filler. It's like this white. But there is a proper term for it. Yeah.

[01:01:02] Um, it's a gross name too. And they're just making this stuff. It goes in everything to make it bigger. It's like some Scrapple land, man. Oh, Scrapple. Scrapple was. Shout out Scrapple. I've never heard of Scrapple. Oh man. The Scrap. Is it the home of Scrapple? It's mechanically separated out of animal. Right. I always picture with like a lot of spice in it. It comes in a frozen like brick. It's gray. Yeah. It's gray before you cook it. Okay. It's the scrap. They said, uh, everything but this wheel. It's everything else. Yeah. I used to eat that shit. Yeah.

[01:01:31] I mean, that's like what bologna is made out of. Right. We put it on crackers. Yeah. Did you eat it that way? Yeah. Well, we would fry it in a pan. Okay. Just eat it with like eggs. Yeah. Um, but like, yeah, I mean, it's literally dude. It's literally a block comes frozen. And I think the word is awful. Is the filler? Right. I could be wrong. Huh? Awful. Which is like a terrible name. I could sound like another word. Awful. Awful. Just like, is it just like a grain byproduct?

[01:02:01] I'm not too sure like how they made it, but it was just funny how my dad. Some of the fashion era shit. Yeah. Oh yeah. He just keeps describing. It's just like this white. No nutritional value. Yeah. Just like ramen noodles. Those noodles have zero nutritional value, but everybody loves them. God, they're so good. I mean, grew up eating that shit. I eat ramen all the time. Yeah. I did switch to like the, um, I got the yuca app. Yeah. So it's like a carrot and you scan stuff and then it tells you like zero out of 100 on nutritional value. Sure. And so like, that was fun once we discovered that app because my wife and I, we would go into the store and like, look at everything.

[01:02:31] We're like, Oh my God, I love this. It's an eight out of a hundred. And it's like, I've been eating this my whole life, but I did find this one, uh, ramen that is a hundred out of a hundred. And it's like, I forget the name of it. I could find it in a picture pretty easy, but it's, it's no broth. It's just the noodle that they sell. So technically the noodle itself has nutrients and is good for you. Cause the broth's the problem. It's super salty. Yeah. The broth's the problem. But is that like a hundred? Like this is perfect.

[01:02:59] Or is that like, if you're going to eat something, not great, this is your best. No, it's like, okay. So a hundred out of a hundred means that it has real ingredients that it's like, it's like decent for you. Okay. And the app will also give you like a recommendation. If I scan Doritos, but I'm craving chips, it'll like tell me a better chip than a Dorito. That's healthier to eat. Now it's, it's just a cool app. How long are you in the fucking grocery store? So the first time, dude, it was a long time. We spent like three hours in there.

[01:03:29] Like scan. It was fun. We're having a blast. Cause then I was get, I was like doing guesses. Like if I could have gambled that night, if something was under 15 or not, the pickles is what bummed me out. Cause I love pickles. I don't know if you're a pickle guy. Of course. I mean, I grew up on pickles. Everything was pickles. It's so good, but man, Clawson's my favorite one out of all of them. And it was like a 19 out of a hundred. Really? It's because of the salt. It's gotta be the salt. It's gotta be the salt, right? I mean, cause the rest is just a cucumber and the brine, which is salt. But I think it loses all of its nutritional value. Right. Once you brine it.

[01:03:59] Has to, but it's so good. Dude. It sucks trying to eat healthy. It's not fun. And it's expensive too. It's not fun. But here's, here's the thing. The less we eat. Okay. So, so all the restaurants, they're all basically Cisco food. They're all just cooking the food. Or shamrock. Different ways. Yeah. So like basically you got to eat at any restaurant. You're almost eating the exact same food. Chicken fingers. So you go home, you have more simple ingredients. It keeps you fuller longer.

[01:04:28] And then also the less that you eat. And we're not medical experts here. I'm not a medical expert. Far from opinion podcast. Yes. There is. But there's a lot of stuff that leans toward a, a body free of intake has a chance to heal and it decreases your risk for all these major ailments. Sure. So like fasting heals and autophagy and all these different studies.

[01:04:54] So like actually eating less, eating healthier and cheaper is probably going to make you live longer. I would agree with that. So it's kind of, it's kind of interesting, but food is addictive. Like there's like, you want to eat it. And like we do it. You know, I want pizza. I'll house a pizza right now. Yeah. But I do intermittent fasting. That's how I kind of balance it. Okay. I'll do 14 to 16 hours every day. And when I'm eating. Not eating. I think that's good. And then when I do eat, it's only in a four to six hour window.

[01:05:23] But isn't that just binging? Well, I mean, if I, I'll still just have like one to one and a half meals in that four to six hour window. Because your stomach has kind of shrunk a little bit. I think so. Yeah. And like, I don't gain when I don't lose weight. I kind of maintain. Sure. Good way to maintain for me. Everyone's different. Yeah. But we still got to like live and we should still enjoy stuff. Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, like, it's like, I'll just keep an eye on the calories. It's like the portion sizes are just so much bigger. It's true.

[01:05:53] Calories. And then also keeping on the carbs. Yeah. The triglycerides. Yeah. So because I'm at that age. Yeah. If you're worried about more than weight, of course. But if like, if you just eat a little bit less of it, that's all that matters. Like self-control, right? Self-control. The self-control. I don't have it. I am like, I am. What are you, what are you weak for right now? Like if it was like, if the food was in front of you and you're just like, I'm going to have two extra portions. What would it be?

[01:06:25] Anything. That's the problem is like, I'm like a, I like a, I love food. Um, like my favorite food. I'm like a big pasta guy. I always have. I had to pay as a pasta guy. Really? I was like, yeah, he's got that New York, you know, that around the Italian culture pasta. Yeah. Like Rayo's is a Rayo's a Philly thing. Is it? I think it is. Hmm. I know Yingling. Everyone knows Yingling back there. And then Natty Bo over on the Baltimore side. Yeah.

[01:06:55] Um, yeah. Pasta. Pasta. Pasta is my shit. A good tortellini. I've been actually thinking about like a tortellini. So good. For like almost a week now, I've been thinking about just making like a nice tortellini soup. A tortellini soup. Yeah. Okay. Tomato based. Oh, yum. Yeah. Some gnocchi. Yeah. I like gnocchi too. Really? It's the textures. I'm a weird texture guy. You got some hot takes over there. Yeah. People tell me that. Don't get me started on music or anything like that.

[01:07:23] I'm like, I'm a hot take machine. That'll have to be episode two. Yeah. Oh yeah. 100%. I didn't realize we'd be going this long. Where are we at? Where are we at? Oh yeah. We're cooking. We're over an hour. We're over an hour. Cool. Yeah. I don't like gnocchi. So there you go. I'm a big textures guy. It doesn't work for me. Maybe I've just not had the right one. That's fair. Yeah. Gnocchi. It's, it's gotta be like you said though. It's got too much to do. Yeah. Like gnocchi soup though. Then it kind of becomes like dumpling soup.

[01:07:54] That's, that's fair. That's fair. Cause gnocchi on its own, I would agree with doughy. Yeah. It is a little too doughy for me. That's why I, I, I just love me the tortellini. I'm getting hungry. I want the cheese tortellini. I want the spinach tortellini. Let's get both. Let's put them in one batch. Yeah. And I want the vodka sauce right now with some spicy Italian sausage. Some Ariabata. And then like, you know, let's do like a little basil and like, let's throw a couple veggies up in there. Sounds great. Yeah, I'm in. Sounds great. Dinner date after this. Yeah. Right. Buzz.

[01:08:24] No, it was great catching up with you. You're an amazing conversationalist. Yeah. I haven't read much of your journalism and your work, but based off your energy, like I can tell that you're doing some good stuff out there. And thank you. Yeah. We want to get you back on. Anytime, man. Anytime. Repeat guests with maybe like annually, like a one annual, see how you're doing. Yeah. You can watch me slowly get old. Yeah. That's, that's basically what we find. Time cancels for you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Like I said, my cover story is out. Today. Today.

[01:08:54] So it's out until next Thursday. So go get it. It's free in any Westward box or like most restaurants in the city. Yeah. I see it all over. Yeah. All of the city. Anything else you want to plug? Any socials, personal? I'm underscore Sage Kelly. That's K-L-E-Y on Instagram. That's where I would post any of my work related stuff, but I'm not really a social media guy otherwise. So. Love to hear that actually. Yeah. I mean, I know we all need it in this day and age, but. Dude, I'm so busy. I feel you. People know how to get ahold of you. I got your number now. You're going to be getting random texts from me. Works for me. Hell yeah.

[01:09:24] Doesn't mean I'll answer them. That's fair. I don't answer half of my texts. I understand. But I'll read it. Okay. I'll read it. It better be good. You know, it's good if you get a reply. Yeah. That's fair. I can handle that. Cool. Right on brother. Well, thanks for taking time to hang out. Thanks guys. Absolutely. Everybody. Thanks for tuning in to discussion combustion. Of course, happy Friday tomorrow and then mash the gas on Mondays. Everyone be good to yourselves. You deserve it.