Chris with Trailfunds | Discussion Combustion Podcast | #296

[00:00:00] We'll have this discussion. Discussion? What discussion? This is a discussion. Combustion. Coming to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Discussion Combustion Podcast with your hosts, Kevin Batstone and Arthur Rawe. Well, welcome back to Discussion Combustion episode 296. Hard to believe, Art. We've been doing this quite a while. It is. Best part about this program is getting new blood in the studio, new friends. I can already tell Chris is a solid lad over here from Trailfunds. We're gonna learn a lot of stuff. Welcome to the show, man.

[00:00:29] Thanks for having me. Absolutely. It's fun how quickly things can happen, right? Because that was about a week and a half ago that you and I first met at the Outdoor Fest. Yeah, yeah. A week and a half. Thanks for stopping by our tent, by the way. Just tucked off to the side, but you did the full. I have your carabiner on one of my backpacks still. Awesome. So I'm still rocking that. I'm glad they're out in the wild. I still got like 50 of them. Yeah, I did ask the question when we were there because it's just fair. I was like, is this climbing gear?

[00:00:58] And you're like, no, definitely not. Definitely not. Don't climb with that. Yeah. That's funny. I gotta go next year. I heard it was a pretty fun fest. Oh yeah. I was working it. Yeah. So it's a little different to work it. I got to see the last act like Lord Hero. Okay. Yeah. And that was pretty much it. And the rest of the time you were just networking and communicating with people, answering questions. Working the booth. Working the booth. Trying to get the word out. Yeah. I mean, we were, at that point we were three days old, four days old. Okay. We literally launched like the week before. So.

[00:01:28] Oh, so this is super fresh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was pretty much like a, the end of like this whirlwind of like, okay, do we have the approvals ready to get through the app stores? Right. Do we have everything set to like actually go live with payments and things like that? Yeah. It was like kind of wild leading up to it. And then you get there and you're like super excited to present, you know, obviously what you have, but, um, you know, it was a, it's a pretty raw product at the point too. So you didn't, we didn't get to do as much like testing or get to push out certain things

[00:01:58] as we would have liked, but. So it's live right now. Oh yeah. So if you were to go and download your app. Yeah, absolutely. What's the name of the app? It's called trail funds. Trail funds. Yeah. We're connecting a trail users, trail organizations. And the logo is on your shirt. The logo is on my shirt. Perfect. Yeah. T F all in, all in one. I like it. Yeah. That's straight to the point. Recognizable. I'm sure there was some sort of brand design that went into it. Like let's keep it simple. Direct to sites to the point. Definitely. Yeah. I like that.

[00:02:26] And the trail funds app is to help nonprofits help with the maintenance of different trails and things of that nature. Yeah. So it's, uh, right now, especially it's basically, it's a streamlines donations between trail users and trail organizations. Okay. So we basically use like location based notifications. So if you're at a trail head and there's a trail organization doing work, um, you get like a quick push notification. It's like a couple of clicks.

[00:02:55] You can do minimum donations, sort of like the Wikipedia, like a quick, like you're almost tipping them. Right. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Um, but that's kind of just like the tip of the iceberg. That's kind of the functionality that we had initially like conceived as like something that's new and unique. And it kind of solves like the real big problem for these organizations. Uh, but you know, as in like for ourselves, we want to grow and kind of be more because not everyone just wants to give money.

[00:03:22] And we hope to be like eventually a one-stop application for trail stewardship in general. Okay. So what would like some other features be? Yeah. Like handicap accessible or different things or. So, yeah. So any, pretty much anything to do with the outdoors and kind of supporting sustainable recreation is like right in our wheelhouse. So when we think about that, like what that'll include, it would ideally be like volunteer

[00:03:51] opportunities right in the app, like a centralized platform for them. Mm-hmm . Right now you usually have to know who you want to work with. You have to go to their website. You have to plan out like months in advance. You have to look at like what they do. This would just be like a quick way to quickly scroll, see when you're available, what, who's doing work then. Oh, like there's some volunteer stuff tomorrow. Like I have some spare time. I'd like to help out. What's trail funds got going on? Yep. Yeah. So hopefully be a list of all sorts of opportunities. And then, you know, you can filter by whatever you're interested in.

[00:04:18] And, um, but as I said, you know, we started with like trail organizations, but we're it's, that's just from like a logical build perspective. Like eventually it'd be great to have other nonprofits think like search and rescue, like fire prevention, um, like youth course climbing groups. We have like mountain biking and trail hiking now. So this is exciting. I just want to disclose this really quick. I think, I think we were talking about this right before we started recording how this

[00:04:47] company is less than a month old. The app is less than a month. Okay. The idea is a couple of years old. Okay. It really hasn't taken, I'd say the myself and the CEO, Jared, uh, for like the last six months have been like a full push for it. Okay. So the app launch is less than a month old. And that's so exciting to, cause I work, um, in some change management and I see what goes into planning and to get to the point where you're confident to show an app to the user

[00:05:17] base, like you have to go through a lot to get there. So that that's huge. Yeah. I, I definitely would say a lot went into getting it ready, especially for like outside fest. We kind of set that as a soft deadline back in January, but long before we knew we were going. And then, uh, we, you know, we ended up going to it and getting to, to be at it. And it was, it basically turned that into a really hard deadline. And if you've been in like app development, that's like a scary thing.

[00:05:47] The walk can go wrong. Yeah. And it certainly was a test leading up, but otherwise, you know, it's kind of what you live for, right? It makes it exciting. So far so good with it. Yeah. I think so far so good. Um, you know, it's going to be really interesting to see how the summit play or the summer plays out. Um, but you know, you kind of ride momentum. Right. And so we're trying to like, we'll make that last as long as we can. And, uh, obviously, you know, certain things are going well cause I'm sitting here right

[00:06:17] now. So talking about it. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Well, hopefully this will help like from the marketing side too, cause I'm sure that's going to be a big piece. Yep. Right. Definitely. Is this a national reach? Is this all across? Great question. It will eventually. Okay. Pretty much. Yes. Yeah. It's focused on Colorado to start to launch. Um, that has to do with the fact of like we built using a co tracks, which is like the state of Colorado's trail database. So we use that trail heads on our backend, but, um, and it's like, great.

[00:06:47] Like that's what everyone kind of wants. And it's a lot of the key information. So really important, really great, but also like I'm in Denver, my buddies in Boulder. So it's a matter of like, how do you focus on your local community first? Yeah. Expanding beyond it. That makes sense. Colorado has a lot of trails. I was looking at the national park like list and we have four in the state of national parks and that's not even to mention all, all the beautiful trails that are out there. There's a lot of trails. So when people go into the app, they can get, is it like ranked information? Like this is a kind of a novice trail.

[00:07:15] Like, are you guys providing that type of information? Uh, so that we will have some of that shortly. We're basically we'll roll out trails. Like right now we're focused on trail heads, but we're never going to compete with all trails or like on X or I mean, even like code tracks to some extent because we're not a navigation tool. Like if you think about it is one way I would like to think about it. It's like, you have a lot of people who initially like want to get into the outdoors and those apps are great for that. They give you information about where do I go?

[00:07:45] What do I do? And then as people kind of start to do that, if they love it, they certainly want to like give back and they want to like contribute and like be a part of like kind of helping keep everything beautiful and kind of serene. I see like a collaboration and started cut you short there, but I see like a collaboration type of thing between you and these navigation apps and they can even like sponsor trail funds and be like, if you want to do more than hike, if you want to help, like, I don't know, since

[00:08:14] it's such like a new idea, like I'm just throwing stuff out there, you know? I mean, like who knows? It's exciting. We've I mean, we've had some conversations with some of those organizations. Nice. So I definitely think that it's something on everyone's radar. I think ultimately for them, like, it'll be sort of like, let's see how these guys do. You know, we just like, you can't partner with someone who's not even out there yet. Right.

[00:08:40] So now, like, let's see how they do by themselves first before we kind of throw our full weight behind them. I do. I think it would be great. Right. I'd love to reach the user base that some of them have. Mm-hmm . But when I think of like, as I said, like it's those who want to take the next step, right? Like how do we get involved? And that can be anyway, like time, money, you know, just even knowledge is like really important these days. Cause like, otherwise you're dealing with like more pollution, more like people going off trail, like damaging the environment, things like that.

[00:09:10] But really no one I think wants, it's just a matter of, you know, how do you get the word out about this stuff? And like, how do you know who's kind of helping spread that word? And that's hopefully where, where we kind of fill in. I like that. So do you think there'll be a time like where you get to a trailhead and like you guys have like your logo on it or like a little QR code, like download here. We've talked about that as being a way to do it. Um, I think that that would be a, like a great solution. I don't want to ever like, there's like way more behind just putting up a QR code.

[00:09:39] I'm sure you think like you deal with landmower, like the land managers on top of it. Yeah. You just, you just go out there with your QR code and just put some sign up. Yeah. That makes sense. There's got to be some legalities to it, but, uh, I would be a great way to get the word out. And I think like some trail orgs already do that. And we don't, we're not like looking to step on anyone's toes. Sure. This is supposed to be an easy way for like one, one location. Right.

[00:10:06] Cause even if you do have a QR code, usually it's like, okay, now do I join their mailing list? Do I put in my credit card information? Do I do? And it's like, this is like two clicks. Like it should be really quick and easy to just give them some money for like, thanks for the trail. That makes sense. Or like, what are they working on? Do, how did I like this trail? Like where are they doing other work in the area? Quick and easy to find if you have one more day or something, or you're looking for stuff to do. It's like a good, you know, branch to do that.

[00:10:36] So I think that's really where we're trying to fill in the space. Okay. Well, that goes into it. I mean, I paid the additional on my license plate to donate to the parks. Um, when you go out into nature and you like experience it, you already are receiving all this dopamine and like, it's such a healing thing. You know, if we give our money to so many things, I could see a lot of people being motivated to preserve and, and help maintain. So it has its place.

[00:11:05] Like I already donate to, to help in the national parks and stuff, you know? So you're going to be a donor for trail funds. I mean, I'll, I'll throw my hat in the ring. I can throw my hat in the ring a little bit. We should do it. Yeah. We can do a little donation for him, you know? You know, I don't know. Is it now, is it a sign up to where now since I'm considering, is it like a, is it like a monthly thing or is it, can you just do one time? I mean, it's, it's like, it's, it's, it can be both, right? Like we have subscriptions built out. Okay.

[00:11:34] So you could subscribe if you wanted to, but no, it's, it's fully integrated with Apple pay. Like you could just quickly in a couple of clicks give to a trail work. Yeah. Okay. Now are you going, can Android users like Google? Yeah. Yeah. So I think we have link and credit cards also like set up and link is another payment, but I don't know if we have Google pay yet, but if not, it'll, it'll be, it's coming. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like guys are ready to rock and roll.

[00:12:03] We got everything, the pieces in play, right? Yeah. Everything seems to make sense here. Now it's getting that word out. Exactly. And growing the reach. Yep. And then keep building. Yeah. I like it though. I'm assuming the Pat, you have a huge passion for the trails, right? Yeah. If I'm not, that's like what drove me to this. Sure. Like if I wasn't working, I'm playing in the mountains somewhere. Okay. Were you going to ask if he was a biker? Yes. Me too. Yeah. I'm like everything. I, I like came out here. I picked up like every single activity you could.

[00:12:33] I don't do any of them like that well. Okay. But I do them all. And I try and out there. Yeah. So you climb, like you do it all. Yep. I climb, I bike, I run, I hike, ski, pretty much. Any whitewater rafting? I have not. I, so I went to go to like confluences, like kayak sale. Okay. Okay. And I was so close to like picked one out, right size, everything. I was like, wait, I live in an apartment.

[00:13:03] Like where am I going to put this? Yeah. I was like, and my wife was just like, no, no way. There's too, this is too much. We can't, we can't have this in here. You have to like hang it from the ceiling somewhere. Or just have it on your rack on your car. Like a true Colorado, just driving around with it all year long. It's pretty much what I do with my bike. So. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got the bike on your car right now. Uh, not right now, but yeah, I have the rack. The rack doesn't come down. He's ready to go. Yeah. Nice. With some of your preferred trails, do you try to keep it close? Do you like to go to the Western slope? Yeah.

[00:13:32] It's, I mean everywhere. Like that was part of what drew me to this idea was like, I've supported the local trail organizations who do work on the front range. And like, if I'm getting out there during the week, like it's, it's all golden boulder. Like that's pretty much my limit. Yeah. Have you been to a Roxborough? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's a nice one. Yeah. I've ridden in Roxborough. Yeah. It's pretty, it's kind of like garden of the gods kind of similar. I think it's great. Yeah. It's really nice. Yeah.

[00:14:02] It's not too far either. And that's the crazy thing. Yeah. It's like, there's all these, if you're in the Denver Metro, like you can drive basically an hour and a half and see a waterfall or a mountain peak or like, there's so many things that is so close easily. Yeah. A hour and a half you're in Summit County as a whole new world of possibility as well. Yeah. St. Mary's Glacier was the first hike I did in the state. Oh, awesome. And it's still one of my favorite places. It's so popular now.

[00:14:29] Like when I first came out here in oh, whatever it was, 07, 08, I started exploring. I'm like, all right, let's see what's out there in the mountains. And St. Mary's used to be like this super, you know, kind of under the wraps place that people didn't really know about. There were still firewood. You camp up there. Now they've had to like build out the parking lot. I think it's a shuttle even sometimes. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised because getting up there, I don't know if you bet you've probably been up there. Yeah. Forest River Road or whatever it is, those switchbacks. And you get up to that little trailhead. It's like only a quarter mile up to the lake, but all the way to James Peaks, a pretty good hike. I like that one. Yeah. We did that one.

[00:14:58] That's always, I feel like the secret is like, just get to, even if it's somewhere really popular, just like go a little further. Yeah. And like all of a sudden it's just you by yourself and it's awesome. It's a good feeling. That James peak summit that we did. That was one of the most intense. That was the only time I did a summit and it was an amazing experience. Yeah. The winds were like 95 miles an hour at the summit. Like it was just blowing us over. You could see the continental divide.

[00:15:28] Like until you've done that, it's, you gotta, while you're young, while you can live, there's never the right time. That's the thing that I've learned is it's like, it's so easy to give yourself an excuse, like I'll, I'll wait until blank happens or, you know, and people just keep kicking the can with stuff and just, so what making that decision and going up on that hill, on that mountain. Get up early too. We were up there at sunrise to start the hike. Yep. Yeah. It's what it's called. Is that what they call it?

[00:15:58] Yeah. Because you, I mean, for a lot of like, especially the bigger peaks, you're trying to beat the afternoon thunderstorms. Yeah. Makes sense. But, um, yeah. And Alpine start is like well before sunrise. Yeah. So you're already getting early jump on the trails. The sun's coming up. That's epic too. It is. It's an interesting, it's a great feeling. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Cause then you're back up for like lunchtime. Yeah, exactly. Depending on what people are doing. That lunch is delicious too. Yeah. Yeah. Bojo's right there in Idaho Springs. Yeah. The, uh, the ability, one of the best things about doing all of those activities is the

[00:16:27] ability to eat whatever you want. Oh yeah. Cause you burn it all out. Yeah. What's, what's your go-to meal after a long ride? Going pizza? You going carbs? It's, it's carbs almost only. Like I, I'm very much on always going to be on the carb train as like the fuel for anything I'm doing. Um, but like any sort of sweets too. Oh yeah. I feel that sweet too. So now are you more of like, if I'm going to guess, I want Kevin, I had a guess on this what do we guess?

[00:16:56] If he's more of like a chocolate type of sweet guy, like a, more of a Skittle type of sweet guy. See, I'm a Skittle Mike and I kind of guy. Or I don't think it's pastries. I don't think it's pastries. He might be a snicker guy, you know? It's like chocolate. Right. I'm going chocolate. I guess I'll take the Skittle side. You're going with Skittle side. If it's, if it's candy, it's a hundred percent chocolate. Okay. I really don't like him. Um, I don't like candy that much, but I will say I've gotten very into dried fruit as well. Okay.

[00:17:25] A good sweet. Like a trail mix. Okay. No, like just like dried mango. That's good stuff. Yeah. Anything like that I think is like awesome. I don't get it. Is that what you meant by sweets? No, no. I eat lots of chocolate bars. Oh, okay. I eat lots of sugar. I, donuts are like, oh yeah. That's, that's really. Donuts? Yeah. So when I said not the pastries, I was completely incorrect. Oh, dang it. Yeah. Well, I mean, before we joined up Mike, we were talking about you're from my neck of the woods up in new England. So Dunkin Donuts.

[00:17:55] I mean, Dunkin, man, we grew up on it. Is that what you're eating? No, of course not. What are you going? You going with the fancy one? Yeah, definitely. I mean, Dunkin, come on, man. I'm not going to say no, but like, no, if we're going to go have some donuts, it's going to be like voodoo's. Yeah. Voodoo's great. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, outside of Dunkin, that's like my world. You know, being a new Englander, a couple of regular and a, and a Boston cream. I mean, what was the, um, uh, what is it? Honeydew was new England only. Yeah.

[00:18:25] That was, that's true. Huh? Uh, those used to be good. I don't think I've had a honeydew. Does it look like a bear's paw or whatever? One of those cat paw things. It's I, I could be wrong, but I feel like it's identical to Krispy Kreme. I think, I think it was in new England. Yeah. It still is. Right? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I mean, everything seems to be expanding outwards, like in and outs here. Now what a burger Bucky's is here, which Bucky's is amazing. I've been there. Oh, see, I thought a honeydew was a type of donut. It's actually like a franchise. I think so. Right? Yeah.

[00:18:55] No, I didn't. It was just in the new England area that served honeydew donuts as their specialty. That's interesting. So what does it look? I got to look. It's glazed. It's just like a glazed donut. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking it up. Cause I'm curious now I want to see the logo of it. Honey. If I like, I like those blueberry donuts, like the blueberry cake donuts that are like, they're very thick and heavy. Like those ones are super. There it is. There's the logo. I got to see a picture of the actual, I want to see a picture of the donut though. Yeah. There it is right there. I want to see what they're working with on that.

[00:19:25] You want to see the actual donut? Yeah. I mean, they're going to show stuff like that. Okay. Right. That looks good. Man. Now we go. I was talking all these pastries. So that's, that's kind of your, your cheat meal or like, I just wrote, I'm going to go eat donuts. Yeah. I mean, it's, I, for me, it's not as much of a, like, I, I try to get out as much as I can. So I guess I'm cheating all the time then too. See, that's the hack though. Be out all the time, eat whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah. At some point, the age is going to catch up and I'll have to focus more on my diet, but yeah. Yeah. Enjoy it while we can. Right.

[00:19:54] How many years you been here? Colorado? Five. Okay. So you're pretty new to the state. I came out here in 07. So I've been out here a while. Yeah. It was a different place then. I believe it. Just a lot less crowded. I, uh, I mean, I would, yeah, it's, it's definitely crowded. I'm, I'm part of everything. You know, all the foreigners coming to my state. A lot of New Englanders out here. I'm messing around. Yeah. I bump into a lot of guys from New Hampshire, Massachusetts. So that's always fun.

[00:20:23] You said outside of Boston? Yeah. Yeah. Just outside of Boston. What part? Belmont. Belmont. I don't know if I'm familiar. I should be. Borders, Cambridge. Okay. So kind of like east, northeast. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My parents have like a place in Maine too. So I've been all over the, the Northeast. And New Hampshire is gorgeous. Yeah. I got, I've never explored New Hampshire. Live free or die baby. I, I would think New Hampshire is like seriously slept on. Yeah.

[00:20:53] It is no national park. Is it as crowded as Colorado? Oh, absolutely not. Not even close. I mean, you go Lake Winnipesaukee, Mount Washington, some of those areas. Franconia notch. Franconia notch. Yeah. Beautiful. The Conway. Yeah. Great, man. Awesome. I still love to go back there. It's awesome when I go back and then I do like a big hike or run there. You feel like a superhero cause you're obviously acclimated to altitude. Oh yeah. You could go even further there. I mean, Mount Washington's like 600 and something feet in elevation.

[00:21:21] It's the hike or the peak itself? The, the, well, what is the peak of Mount Washington? Do you know? 4,500 feet. Is it that high? Yeah. I didn't realize that. So their highest peak is still lower than Denver. Yeah. I think it's, or maybe it's, it's very close. Yeah. I mean, the highest wind speed ever recorded was up in the world. Really? 212 miles an hour. Wasn't like Antarctica or something like that? I mean, as far as I know, Mount Washington still has it. It's really interesting cause it's, you can like drive up there and like, if you hike

[00:21:51] it, it's like super frustrating cause you, you come to the summit and there's people like flowing out of cars, like taking a photo on the summit. But then it, it, it's like deadly. It kills people drive up. Yeah. It's like, it's super, yeah. Really intense weather. Like you have to be prepared. A lot of people underestimate it. Oh yeah. Is it similar to Colorado? Like afternoon storms? Is that typical for most mountains?

[00:22:15] Like an afternoon type of treachery and afternoon treachery? Yeah. It's, it's definitely a common thing. Like wind. Yeah. And storms itself moving very quickly over and through them are definitely a thing. I wouldn't go up there in the winter. Yeah. I mean, some people get wild though. They love that. Those snow hikes and ice climbing. Yeah. Tuckerman's ravine is like the famous ski run that everyone in New England does. Okay. I grew up near Gunstock. Yeah. You know, that area.

[00:22:45] Lake Winnie. I mean, that's where I grew up. That's awesome. Like when I'm so beautiful. I'm going back for the first time, man, and almost 17 years. Oh wow. That is a long time. I'll be there in September this year. I'm going for the NASCAR race and see my sweetie and a couple others. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I always wanted to go check out that NASCAR race. Loudon, New Hampshire. Yeah. Get put on the list, man. Yeah. At some point. Yeah. I know. It's fun stuff. Different, different kind of vibe there. I believe that. Kind of the opposite of, uh, of, of trail hikers. I would say, I don't know.

[00:23:15] You get some athletic people there, but most part of people like red meat and beer. So, you know, it's just not all American. I like both of those things. I'm on the trails all the time. So yeah. Yeah. Um, now are you drinking? I'm going to guess like what you drink and what you eat on this show. It's, it's part of the, it's part of the gig. I'm doing here. It's something new apparently. So is the beer, is it, is it a stout? Uh, no, it's, it's almost never a stout.

[00:23:42] Um, yeah, I, I used to be really into IPAs. Okay. Um, but I, I can't anymore. They're too heavy. Like they'll make me pass out. Yeah. If I, if I was to drink a couple of those, I get super red in the face. Non-alcoholic IPAs. Pretty good. I believe that I haven't, I've had like a couple of them. Um, but yeah, no, I, I used to be the super into those now. Like, honestly it's amber, like a red ale. Yeah. Okay.

[00:24:10] That usually has like a little more flavor than like a Coors Light. But yeah. Makes sense. I like trying the lagers or like a Pilsner. It's basically like the same thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. So many things on the market now. There's sours and all the different stuff. I can't do a sour. Well, people like those. I can't do a sour. In the Colorado summer, it's not the worst thing. I could think of other things. I'd, I'd rather drink a sour in the middle of summer than a stout. Yeah. I don't know this. I guess I haven't had the best sours. I don't know. It's something about the flavor.

[00:24:39] I think there's some like good sour breweries here. Big breweries here for sure. People love their craft beers in Colorado. I mean, I guess they do in New England too though. Yeah. You know, I left there before drinking age, so I didn't really get to experience that part of the, part of the, the nightlife if you will. Yeah. So two different worlds. Yeah, definitely. So that's fun stuff, man. Basically everybody that is my friend that I'm from Colorado. Yep. No, none of my closest friends are Colorado.

[00:25:07] Like my wife is not from Colorado and it's, it's interesting because you know, it's, it's the United States in general is just like a melting pot of a country, but then a lot of people are coming here as well. Um, it's a, it's a fun state. I actually haven't done too much of the trails. Like it's weird being a local because anyone who moves here, they seem to have done more than I have. Yeah. Why is that? I don't think. Yeah. Well, people move here for that though.

[00:25:37] No, I, I know that, but I still don't understand why no one in Colorado, like like the natives, a lot of Colorado natives, they're like casual hikers or like they don't ski much or yeah. And, and I get like, obviously that's the biggest driver of people coming to the state, but I, I don't never understood why. Like, I don't know. I feel like for myself, if I woke up and saw the mountains every day, I'd be like, got to get out there. Yeah. What's, what's going on up there? Yeah. Have you been to a Telluride or Durango in that area? See, you haven't even been there, have you? Yeah.

[00:26:07] And you've lived here for how many years? I haven't been to Telluride my whole life. Isn't that wild? Yeah. No, I think it's a bluegrass festival coming up. I mean, look, Telluride is on the, it's on the list. We'll get into that in a minute. No, it's on the list. And I've heard great things about the, the bluegrass festival out there. It's like the biggest one in the country. Is it? Yeah. It's a big deal. Like the tent run, like the day one where everyone's getting their spots. It's insanity. Really? Oh gosh. Yeah. So they like have like a queue. So yeah.

[00:26:33] Like when like the lot opens, people like running in to get the best spot for their tent. You know? Gosh. Yeah. I heard about all that. Are you going to, you can do it that way? Are you camping it? So I am camping it, but I, me and my buddy who's coming out for it, we both got like terrible lottery draws. So I think we're in like the far away campgrounds. I don't think it's as much of a concern. That's actually better. I think. Yeah. Maybe a little less chaos, but you still have to stagger through all the chaos. People are doing wild things and man, you see some, it's like going to a NASCAR race.

[00:27:02] I might, I'm, I might be delusional, but I have been convincing myself that I'm going to get out and like hike or bike in the morning and then go enjoy bluegrass for the rest of the day. And that sounds amazing to me. Would you call it the Alpine hour? Oh, I won't be doing an Alpine start for the. Alpine start. No, I think the festival goes to like 2am. It does. Yeah. And they rock roll. Dierks Bentley usually makes an appearance unannounced. He just loves it. Yeah. Cause he lives up there. I don't know if you're a Dierks Bentley fan. I like them. Yeah. Yeah. The bluegrass stuff's fun, man.

[00:27:31] We saw what the travel McCoury's they're always there. The Del McCurry band, those guys. I don't know. Bluegrass has changed a little bit with new grass and some of the new flavor coming in. Yeah. I, I am pretty new to it, honestly. Um, but I, it's, it's great. Like live. I think it's just amazing. Amazing musicians. Yeah. So incredible. Yeah. That's one of the first things I did when I came to Colorado, I didn't listen to bluegrass or country back in new England. Yeah. Cause it's not really that, that vibe, you know, it's more like rock and roll, you know, hard rock.

[00:27:59] A little bit of folk, you know, like punk rock, stuff like that. Like that's how I tell like the music scene of Boston feels. But I've been, I haven't been there in so long. So EDM's crept in a little bit, but yeah, Boston's kind of all over the place. It's a, that's a melting pot too. I suppose. Yeah. That's a city you gotta go visit. I'll go check it out. Craig, uh, one of our friends spoke highly of it recently. Was he there? Um, yeah. I'm like a little conference, something like that. Yeah. So he said he enjoyed it, but back to your mountain question of the locals.

[00:28:26] I will say that I have completely appreciated the mountains my entire life. Yeah. So there is that, like, I think they're absolutely gorgeous, beautiful. And then when I go to other places, you can tell that it's not there. Right. And then you come back home and every time I've traveled and I've come back home, I'm like, Oh man, I'm so happy that I live here. Right. And there is, there is like this urge, but I feel like, you know, a lot of people want what they don't have. Right.

[00:28:55] And so, especially if you're from an area, sure you had some mountains out there, but not like the Rockies. Yeah. Definitely not. They're like hills. Yeah. So it's kind of, I feel like it might go into that like psychological realm of like, okay, it's, it's unaccessible. So let me move there. And then since there's that conscious decision, then there is more of a want to completely fulfill that need as opposed to when you're born around that environment, it is kind of normal.

[00:29:24] Like I've tried skiing and stuff and it was just never my thing. I do love to go hike and mountain, but I just, I don't plan it. Like I should. Right. Like I should be like once every other weekend or trying to like schedule stuff to get out there. Every time I've went, I've never regretted going. Right. It's always so beautiful. I mean, that's, that's yeah, that's a hundred percent. Like I've never had, I've had bad days in the mountains, but I've never been like, uh,

[00:29:52] I, I, that's not going to keep me away. Probably weather related, right? Some of the bad ones like running out of thunderstorms. Yeah. Or yeah. Or just me being not that smart. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. We've all had moments like that. I have them frequently. Bad decision, bad decision making stuff like that. But yeah. It's part of the learning process. I was going to say. It is. Thomas Edison would like failed the light bulb thousand times before. Right. And he got it right. And everyone was like, you're a genius. Yeah.

[00:30:19] Like people only look at the failures if you let that stop you. Right. If you fail, but you keep going. Like eventually it happened. Like I was listening to this stuff about how Henry Ford like demanded his inner and, uh, engineering team to create a V eight engine. And they couldn't, they like, couldn't do it for like over a year. They're like, this can't be done. And they just, they couldn't do it. And then he's like, no, we're going to have this V eight. And then eventually like it just happened. Yeah. So Henry Ford is the man.

[00:30:49] I have his last name tattooed on my arm. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of a gear head. Major. Major. Well, cause you're not like working on cars. I mean, I like tinkering on cars. You know, I don't know if I know as much as this guy, but yeah. Didn't you say you were kind of in that a little bit? No, not really. Like briefly. Okay. I went through a phase of it really, but I've, I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I wouldn't call myself any bit of a gear head. And I definitely since then have been more focused on, as I said, everything I do now

[00:31:17] is like focused on outdoor recreation. Fixing the bicycle instead of the changing the wheel on the ride. Yeah, exactly. It's a lot easier as it turns out too. Yeah. That makes sense. I almost bought a bike last year. I was like, I want to get back into this, you know? They're crazy expensive. They're super expensive because I don't want to buy like just an okay one. We're going to do it. Let's get something decent. You know? And then I started like, I just got overwhelmed with all the stats and it's like, well, you need this for this. And what kind of bike were you looking for? I want something that I can, you know, kind of cruise around my, where I live, you know,

[00:31:45] so not super hilly, but if I'm feeling frisky, I want to go, you know, not anything too wild, but like just a easy mountain bike. Yeah. That's, you could probably get one of those for not, not too bad. For like probably six, 700 bucks. Yeah. I would think that you could get something that'll do everything that you'd want without. And if you really wanted to see, if you wanted to take the next step, just like rent one for a day. That's the problem with me. Like I was telling you my gambling, once I go in, it pulls me in. Dude. I mean, you should see my care room.

[00:32:16] It's like, once I get a taste of some activity, it's just like, we need, we need more. So you have like your biking outfit. I have, I have biking stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I mean, I have all sorts of climbing gear. I'm like still looking at it. And the shoes. Oh yeah. Okay. You said you have a whole gear room. Yeah. And we couldn't fit the kayak in there. So it's, it's new. I'm in a new place. Okay. This is a different time. I'm now back on the market for a kayak. Oh, he's back in. Oh, we heard it first here on DCTC.

[00:32:46] He's back in. It's reaching the end of the season anyways for it. That's kind of true. Yeah. With all the snow runoff and whatnot. It came early this year. It did. Yeah. A lot of rain too, this year. I love that. I love the rain. One of the rainiest since I've lived here for sure. Yeah. Rainy vibe is awesome. It's, I, I like don't mind it, especially as it rains in Colorado, like the hour, two hours, like generally. Yeah. Just not much. But, um, yeah, it definitely, it definitely impacts like how I could do stuff.

[00:33:16] And, uh, with Denver, I don't know. It's yeah. I don't think I've seen this much rain since I've been here. Yeah. No, I mean, being from here, this is like one of the second most rainiest seasons I've seen. Well, I heard a stat that it's been rainier since March. We're rainier than Portland and Seattle. That's crazy. It is. By the end of the year, they should catch up though. Right? We'll see. We'll see what kind of summer we get. I mean, it's either gonna be hot and dry or. Let's double down on it. This guy. Which. And then we go into winter, which you've experienced a couple of those here. Now those are super unpredictable. Yeah.

[00:33:45] You know, sometimes we get nothing. Sometimes you can go ride your bike in January. Yeah. That's not something we really had in New England. I mean, we did, but we didn't. I mean, the snow would stick around until March. Like the snow banks. It doesn't do that anymore. Really? It's changed? Oh yeah. Man. Yeah. I'm taking 17 years. I know. I'm taking myself here. Yeah. It's barely. It barely. I think this winter was pretty cold, but was it the last before this? And I spent a couple of years in like New York city. It was like, no, snows around for a couple of days.

[00:34:15] You had some pizza in New York, right? Oh yeah. Was it what they say? The pizzas is good. It's, it's definitely like, it's definitely a lot better than Colorado. Shout out. Oh man. I've been on the hunt for pizza here. But I really think the bagels are like, that's the true difference. Yeah. Okay. Those are like way better. And it's like a boiled bagel, right? Like they do it differently. Yeah. Good stuff though. Bagel and a schmear. Yeah. They have like a Rosenberg bagel, I believe. And that's like a New York style.

[00:34:44] And they even fly their dough in in water. I think they import their water from New York. They say it's the water. Yeah. Yeah. They say it's the water that does the New York bagels. At least, I mean, what do I know? But yeah. I mean, New York water, like the public water, just, just regular tap water from New York. Yeah. That seems concerning. It seems expensive. Like I've, I know logistics and water is not light. Yeah. To move. Yeah. You know, and how much water, how many bagels are they putting out?

[00:35:10] How many liters of water are we dealing with getting imported from New York here to Colorado? I know it's fleets to more questions. I know. No idea. It's okay. That's funny. Best pizza, I think is New Haven. Yeah. New Haven's really good. So I like, that's like 45 minutes east of New York. Yeah. But the style of New Haven, like the kind of crispy cheese top, thin crust. Yeah. So it's similar to that thin New York crust, but I like it a little bit crispier. Yeah. You know, as Portnoy says, no flop. Right? You ever watch his pizza reviews? I've seen a couple. Yeah. Man, he's between his bedding and his pizza, man, he's living the life.

[00:35:40] Wait, this is the same guy that you're talking about? There's the pizza reviews. Bedding $750,000. Bro, his bets are crazy. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And he's the pizza guy? He's the pizza guy. Ah, this guy. But he started his career, Boston guy. Okay. Barstool Sports. He sold the company $400 million and then bought it back for a dollar. That's crazy. How? I mean, I... He worked the deal. That's Portnoy. That's Portnoy. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:36:06] I don't know much about Portnoy, but I definitely would recognize his name if somebody said it. Oh yeah. No, he's pretty... I mean, when it comes to gambling, I stopped taking his picks though. Every time I take Portnoy's picks, I lost. I'm like, come on, Dave. I believe that. You're supposed to be the guy here. You know, he's going wild. He's parlays. I'm done with the parlays, man. I'm not doing those anymore. What is a parlay exactly? It's four, five, six picks, you know? Okay. You're saying you're betting on all those things that have to occur. Oh, okay.

[00:36:32] So you generally, basically you use it most likely to pick a whole bunch of favorites. And that's to spread out. So you still make money. Okay. But they're tough to hit. Like I was doing a few on the NBA games, like plus 25 points, three rebounds. I'm like, come on, man. I need two more points. Didn't hit it. Didn't hit it. Yeah. It's so dumb. It's so dumb. It's so fun. It's so fun and dumb. Yeah. That's the best way to describe it. It's just dumb. It can make a very dull thing.

[00:37:01] Very entertaining. That is kind of true. Well, yeah. Cause then you have skin in the game. You root for it. It's like horse betting, right? I like to bet on horses, live action at the track. I'm not going to watch that on TV if I don't have any skin in the game. Of course not. But I'm like, come on. I want the seven horse. Yeah. Right. It's, it's fun to go play that role. Of gambling. Yeah. So I was, I was listening to this audio book today that was talking about our, our minds and how our ego identifies ourselves and how there's like different roles. And we do this unconsciously.

[00:37:31] Everybody plays these different roles and how like being an adult is a role and it's not typically, um, associated with like having fun. It's a very responsible kind of Frank type of role. So there's like a parent role. There's all types of roles. So what I have, I'm trying to identify with this is like when I'm playing roles, noticing that I am.

[00:37:54] And when you are aware of yourself playing a role, then that breaks the ego's control. Like the ego is what's kind of moving our subconscious through things. It wants to have an identification. And so when you are aware of the role that you're playing and there could be multiples, then that helps separate yourself from the ego, hence bringing you into the present more. And so I forget how I was tying that in to this conversation.

[00:38:24] It got pretty deep there for quite frankly, but no, this stuff is really interesting to think about. It was probably true to it. And like how, how, like we try to fulfill these different roles and how the hippie movement actually was very interesting. Um, the seventies. Yeah. Like late sixties and all that culture. And, and because it brought in this type of, uh, new environment where it's like, you know, we're in these manmade roles, which were essentially thoughts. And then those thoughts became a society norm.

[00:38:51] And then people work to play in these different, here's my job title. Here's this, you know? And so it's just kind of interesting to think about what were we talking about right before? Gambling, gambling. Oh, so the role of a gambler, you can have fun. I'm saying, and like, I don't, I don't know how I was tying that in. I appreciate where you're going with it. It's, it's important stuff because if you're not thinking about what you think about, then your mind is going to just go wherever it wants to go.

[00:39:19] Well, we live in a world of social media that fill in that instant void of which you say you don't really do social media, which is great. That is. But a lot of people get pulled in those TikToks and Instagram reels and all that stuff. It's like a constant battle for our attention. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. Like I'll still sometimes find myself into like a YouTube. Like a short. Yeah. Pulls the ends. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, they're incredibly good at it, but that's like, I mean, that, that

[00:39:48] just more of that is like what pushes me outdoors. It's good. Like, it's just like when you get a detox from it, I feel like I realized how much, like how great it is. Uh, that's a good statement. Yeah. Do you find yourself when you're out on the trails doing the bike? Like, do you find yourself like really like enveloped in the present? Like you're like, Oh, this is fun. Like you notice yourself enjoying it as it happens. Right.

[00:40:16] Like, I feel like that comes more naturally when you're like experiencing things outside of your screen. Cause you're looking at their lives. You're looking at this other stuff. There's, I'm definitely far more present if I'm out on a trail. Um, and I'm, I'm generally just like happier. Right. I usually like no matter what I'm having a good time out there. And, um, but I mean, there's also like, there's aspects of it. It's like, Oh, you're kind of like if you're tired and you're suffering and stuff like that.

[00:40:46] And I don't know, I find it to be like the best way to reflect, to get like a clear head and clear thoughts and like kind of think about and reflect about like how things are going. For me, it's like a long day out. That's the way to do it. Yeah. Good recharge. Good. Anytime I go camping, you know, I don't bring the phone other than like to play some tunes, you know, just completely disconnect from it and just being out there in nature. I always come back feeling more rejuvenated than like sleeping 10 hours in my bed.

[00:41:11] I, my wife and I went to Montenegro last year and I, that week, you know how it gives you your phone time for the week. It's like 15 minutes a day. Isn't that great? And I was like, I felt incredible. Yeah. Like that was the highlight of dumb kidding, but like that's a big statement. Yeah. Cause I mean, you look at screen times now, I mean, some people obviously have emails to respond to and they're going to be on trail funds. So they're gonna be doing some screen time there. Yeah. You know, there's things we have to do, but it's like, you know, tick tock six hours or whatever. Yeah.

[00:41:41] Fortunately, I'm not seeing those numbers. Hey, that was my stat. You're sharing my stat. Sorry, I'm airing out your dirty laundry. He's sharing my stats over here. Six hours on tick tock. But after that six hour day and I actually looked at my total report, it was like 10 hours of phone time that day. And like, I was, that's when I was like, I have to be more present. And like, how do you do that when you're working at home or from whatever? So I try to go on walks, you know, or try to listen to an audio book or like, you're pretty active clean the apartment.

[00:42:08] I don't know, but it's about being present and it's, and this associating yourself with the roles that we believe we need to play because like, it's changing how I'm looking at money and stuff too. Like everything is kind of temporary. Right. And like, there's so many things to stress out about. And like, if you're trying to go after it, you're overcoming your failures, failures, failing multiple times and then succeeding and going after things that you believe in, then you're actually living.

[00:42:36] And so many people get caught up and as far as like trying to wear the right brand and fit in, in a certain way or well, I know where I'm going with this. Yeah. I mean, I think you basically just described like what drives me to the outdoors in a nutshell is like, and especially with like me taking on all sorts of different things. It's like, you know, some of them have steep learning curves. Like I'm, I've been climbing now for like four or five years and I'm not, I'm not a good climber. I'm not an average climber. Well, yeah. How do you grade that?

[00:43:05] Like there's, I mean, there's literal grades and like, like there's literal grades for like different types of climbs. And then it's just like, you like any, any of the climbers you've heard of, like Alex Honnold, like the free solo guy, like I can't touch like the thing he like, that'd be so terrifying. And I could probably do like, so to there I'm so far off, but as you know, as described,

[00:43:33] like, so I'm failing all the time and you kind of to progress, it's like a matter of like kind of stepping out of your comfort zone and like really pushing yourself. And so that's like, I think the outdoors provides like an endless opportunity for that to like really kind of give yourself a test piece and like see how it goes. And usually like, I feel way better even after. What's like a specific event that you could recall was a struggle and then you overcame it.

[00:44:01] Like an event? Like as far as, uh, like either you didn't want to make that summit that day or you felt like the software company, like something, and then it ended up working out. Yeah. I'd say, I mean, it's hard, especially when you talk about like the, the outdoors, it's hard to ever, like, you have to be willing to accept failure or you're going to get yourself hurt.

[00:44:29] Like you have to know when to, when to fold them, when to walk away. Like I, I literally had a moment last week where I went out biking and it was pouring rain. And I was like, Oh, it's whatever. It's nice. I don't get to do this often. Then ate it like four times on the descent, like just brutal beating up my legs. Cause it's so slick. Like you were telling you're, you're going down. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just high speeds. Not slow, but I was after the first one, it was not fast at all. Yeah.

[00:45:00] It was literally like, all right, let's just try and get off this. Um, but yeah, so in that case, like always you kind of try and see where that line is or where that limit is. And like, um, the good thing about like climbing is like, it's, it's super easy to test it. Right? Like I know if I'm a climbs rated, you know, something five, 12, like that's going to be tough for me. I'm going to fall. It's just getting up. So is the 10 like the hardest?

[00:45:24] Uh, I don't know what is officially the hardest, but there's, there's two types of grades. There's like bouldering and, and multiple are like top rope lead. And those ones it's like five 15 is the hardest maybe. And, uh, for like bouldering maybe V 15, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard those things before. So that's like, I haven't really done climbing. I did a little bit back in high school, but that was a long time ago. Yeah. It's one of those, another thing where it's like, that's another expensive hobby. I bet it is.

[00:45:54] Cause then you start figuring out like, Oh, I need a better gear here. And I don't know if REI or wherever you shop a lot of it is maybe my online probably. Yeah. So expensive. And it's one of those, many of the, the sports it's like this gear keeps you alive. Right. You have to invest into it. Yeah. That's a good point. They kind of have a threshold on the market. Like you need this or when you fall, you're done. Yeah. The, the, a lot of it falls into that, the ski stuff, especially. But then you see something out there, you're like shopping. It's like too cheap.

[00:46:24] You're like, I'll probably die with that. Yeah. You're like, it's too cheap. I can't, I can't go for that. Can't be rolling the dice. Now is your wife into climbing and being outdoors? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. It makes it easy. And how did, how did you two originally meet? We, uh, we met at school. Okay. So yeah. She's from back home too. She is from Long Island. Okay. And then we both, we went to Villanova and that's how we met. Right on. Yeah. It's a fun story. It's fun. Yeah. It's fun. It's always fun hearing how, how people met. Yeah.

[00:46:55] Interesting. Yes. I mean, that's, that's like, so before, was that before the age of dating apps? Um, no, it was pretty recent. Okay. So it was in the mix and I was like, Facebook's one of the best ones. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what's it's not the, obviously not Instagram. It's a, I've never done online dating. Oh, Tinder. Tinder is the Instagram of the dating apps in my mind. That's how I feel. Yeah. I'm, I didn't, I kind of missed it. I've never, I was never doing that. It's scammish. It's very scammish.

[00:47:24] And that's the thing is like, you know, they have this whole market of fulfilling someone's loneliness with a meaningful relationship. Which AI is doing now. That's crazy. That stuff's getting wild. People have like AI girlfriends. Yeah. It's, and it's just going to get more and more into AI. I mean, every day it's getting stronger. These videos are coming out. I'm like, is this even real? Yeah. It's getting a lot better. It's easy to get duped. Yeah. That's the problem. You know, it just take, we just talk about clickbait. It's well past that now. Yeah.

[00:47:54] You know, especially with the older generation, you know, that believe everything on the news and that type of stuff. I mean, that's who they're preying on. I know. You know, they're like, Oh, give us your credit card number and you know, you'll be good. It's, I mean, all of, all of this, that sort of scam culture, like where you can go down, like there's some interesting podcasts on it and things like that. But it is, it's crazy. It's wild. I don't know how people like, like scammers, like wake up and like look themselves in the mirror and feel good about themselves as being a communist.

[00:48:24] Like, how do I, how, who am I to judge living in, in the relative comfort that I live in? But yeah, that's hard. I mean, there's like a moral code. Yeah. Like I feel every human intuitively knows right or wrong. Unless if you literally have like a brain condition of some sort and all these scammers are smart enough to know better, like honestly. And here's the thing is karma is going to catch up regardless to everybody. I agree with that. Like everything you've done, like you have to, there's a cost to it. Yeah.

[00:48:54] Especially if you put money on a like draft Kings or something. See what you did there. I mean, the big message from this episode is get outdoors. Yes. Is to get involved with trail funds, stuff coming down the pipeline, put the screen down, put the screen, even though it's, which is, I know it's kind of, we, we kind of pitch the same way too. Like, Oh, just say off your screens, but watch our podcast. It's, I mean, it's tough, right? Because we didn't know what to build to do this because there is that element of like, you want people to be engaged.

[00:49:23] Um, and so hopefully, I mean, especially as we step away from just like the donating piece, which is, it's, we shouldn't say step away. It's always going to be there. It's always going to be a core piece of our functionality because it's what the organizations need. But when we talk about like events and, um, like volunteer opportunities, like those are pretty great. Like it's awesome to get out there and that is stepping away from the phone. And that is the kind of stuff that gets people coming back.

[00:49:47] And so it's really, I mean, that's hopefully what we're pushing people towards, but yeah, we're using an app to do so. But it's a healthy use of it. Like we were talking about being able to eat pizza and donuts after the ride, you know, he's got done doing an epic hike. You're going to jump on there and maybe throw some donations around. Yeah. It's a good balance. Well, here's the thing is there's so many times suck apps where literally there is zero benefit. You're watching absolute garbage, horrible behavior and normalizing this stuff, or you're

[00:50:15] on trail funds, finding an awesome trail that you could go volunteer at or donate to keep things working well. Like there is a positive use of time with technology, but we have to be conscious of how we're using it. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's what I'm trying to be better at at least, you know, cause it's so easy to get control. We can control. Yeah. Cause it's a constant battle for our time and you know, spend some time outdoors, man. That motivates me to get out this summer. I'm ready. It's been a little while. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:45] It's, I mean, it's, it's a beautiful state. It really is. There's a lot. I love the Western slope too. I feel like, like we were talking, kind of stay close, you know, driving range. If you're going to do Western slope, I guess it's a weekend trip. I, I would say I worked for a company that was out in, uh, Grand Junction before I'd gone out there. It was, you know, people kind of talk poorly about it. I love it. It's great. I think Montrose is a gem. Montrose is, is nice. I like obviously black Canyon is great. Yeah.

[00:51:15] Um, right out there, but like, uh, even Grand Junction and Palisade. And then if you go up to like Fruita, like that biking is some of the best mountain biking in the state for sure. And then I think like, you know, the wineries are really nice. It might not be like California quality, but like sitting out there and like looking at like the Mesa and everything is pretty incredible. Um, and just like, as I said, they really invested, they have great climbing there too. Really? Yeah.

[00:51:43] The West, the Western part of Colorado is awesome. It's definitely slept on. I think just because of the drive time from Denver, people like, where can I go? That's under two hours. Well, the other thing is there'll be like, oh, I'm this far. I should just go to Moab. Oh yeah. Or that. Right. Let's push another hour, hour 15 and we're in Moab, which is a cool town too. Yeah. Doug Moab's, Moab's bad ass. Stunning. I've only driven through like Utah going to California and those views I should have. We, we'd never stopped. I've never stopped in there. And so I, I got to get out there.

[00:52:11] The Utah like road trip, the, um, what do they call it? Like the big five national park road trip. I've never heard someone come back from that and say anything. So there's five in Utah. There's at least five, but there's five big. It's like arches, Canyon lands, Bryce Canyon, Zion, maybe it's there and you do them there. They're, it's like a six, seven hours, I think between them or something. Maybe I'm off on that, but it's, uh, it's incredible.

[00:52:39] So it's like a week journey or something like that. It's like a week off. That sounds fantastic. Yeah. You just save up some gas money. Yeah. I know guys do a lot of dirt biking out there too. It's a big dirt bike culture. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's big in OHV and stuff like that. Yeah. Bigger than yeah. Do you do any dirt biking? I don't do any dirt biking. Okay. I, another thing I probably wouldn't mind, but in living in Denver. Yeah. Again, it's one of those things you'd have done, you had transported around, you need a truck. Yeah. That's true.

[00:53:09] Well, he's going to buy a kayak by the time we see him next. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. This was a fun one, man. Thanks for coming down and talking about trail funds and hanging out with us. Absolutely. We'll get you back on again. You know, we'd like to do repeat guests. So yeah, get you back on maybe see where you're at and. Hell yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah. We want to help promote. And then next time you come on, you're going to be like a billion dollar company. We're here. We're a nonprofit. So he won't be that, but you won't be that nonprofit. But yeah, it'll be, it'll be great to come back.

[00:53:37] And thanks for having me, especially so close to 300, which is awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks, man. Yeah. Thanks, man.

[00:54:10] Thanks for having me on. You bet. Awesome. Bye. We'll be fine. We'll be fine. We'll be fine. We'll be fine. Chris, we're going to talk soon. And catch us on Happy Friday America tomorrow. Be good to yourselves. You deserve it.