Kyle Hybl: Service at All Times

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Katie Kramer, President and CEO of the Boettcher Foundation. Welcome to Colorado Leadership Stories

[00:00:08] where we talk to everyday courageous leaders who have made transformational impacts in their communities and

[00:00:15] are building a better state for everyone.

[00:00:18] You'll hear from leaders and organizations and communities throughout the state as we explore the idea that

[00:00:24] leadership is an activity that anyone can do.

[00:00:33] Today we join you on Colorado Leadership Stories from Colorado's second largest city, Colorado Springs.

[00:00:38] We have brought the Boettcher Podcast on the road to the home office of the Elpomar Foundation.

[00:00:43] We are joined by a very special guest, my dear and longtime friend, Kyle Hibble, the president and CEO of the Elpomar Foundation.

[00:00:51] And when I say dear and longtime friend instead of old friend,

[00:00:55] it's hard to believe that we've known each other for literally 30 years, Kyle, when we met

[00:01:00] during our undergraduate years at CU Boulder.

[00:01:02] We'll be sure to talk about those years and your life and career that have led both of us to where we are today,

[00:01:08] where you're leading the Elpomar Foundation and I'm at the Boettcher Foundation.

[00:01:12] We have a shared history with our founders, even the past 77 years, both founded in 1937.

[00:01:18] So it's a privilege to do the work that we do throughout Colorado.

[00:01:23] And it's been fun being on this leadership journey with you.

[00:01:26] So I've been to the Penrose House many times, but never to record a podcast.

[00:01:30] So they're first for everything.

[00:01:31] So great to see you, my friend.

[00:01:33] Welcome.

[00:01:33] Great to see you too, Katie.

[00:01:35] Thanks for being here and welcome to the home of Spencer and Julie Penrose.

[00:01:39] Love it.

[00:01:40] Speaking of home and family, I want to talk about your family.

[00:01:43] You are one of two boys and the son of Bill Hibble, whose leadership influences a Coloradan has impacted a number of

[00:01:49] organizations and communities.

[00:01:51] And of course, we also need to talk about your late mother, Kathy, whose own form of leadership served as the backbone

[00:01:58] and driving force in your family throughout your life.

[00:02:01] Share a little bit about being the son of Bill and Kathy.

[00:02:06] Sure.

[00:02:07] First off, I can say without qualification that I am so fortunate to have the parents I have and grateful

[00:02:16] for everything I've learned from both my mom and my dad.

[00:02:21] They were an exceptional team that sort of that brought my brother and me up to be the adults we became and

[00:02:31] passed then passed that on to now their grandkids.

[00:02:36] And, you know, maybe someday we'll have kids, grandkids, you know, who knows?

[00:02:41] It's an exceptional having mentors in your world that are close is something that is really special.

[00:02:48] Mentorship is essential for each and every one of us.

[00:02:53] And having mentors at the kitchen table is especially powerful, even though as a teenager, maybe you don't

[00:03:01] recognize that.

[00:03:03] Not until later, I guess.

[00:03:04] Right.

[00:03:04] Right.

[00:03:05] Yeah.

[00:03:05] Well, you and I have some shared history in that both of us, of course, grew up in Colorado Springs.

[00:03:11] And so I'm curious when you were here and in school growing up, what were your particular interests in

[00:03:18] your adolescent and teen years?

[00:03:20] So as I grew up, I grew up ski racing and spent my freshman year of college skiing division one for

[00:03:28] Bates College in Maine.

[00:03:29] And we skied against Dartmouth and Middlebury and and UVM.

[00:03:34] And they were a lot better than we were.

[00:03:35] But it was really interesting to ski against them.

[00:03:38] So I spent a lot of my time growing up training and focused on the sport of ski racing, played some

[00:03:44] soccer also.

[00:03:46] Well, and then off to college.

[00:03:48] I didn't realize that you didn't start out at CU.

[00:03:51] So right.

[00:03:52] I was technically a freshman when I transferred, so I was still eligible for a president's

[00:03:57] leadership class, which, as you and I both know, is really an extraordinary opportunity for young

[00:04:05] people in the state of Colorado to and outside the state, really who come, they can see mentors

[00:04:12] in action and learn from them and then also have cohorts to learn with and experience

[00:04:20] early professional life with.

[00:04:22] Right. Fond memories for me with that program as well.

[00:04:26] And like you said, just the chance to see be inspired by leaders in the community, whether

[00:04:32] no matter what sector they were in and then that peer group, it was just magic.

[00:04:36] I am so grateful for for those years and definitely helped me think about how I wanted to

[00:04:43] show up in the world as a leader.

[00:04:45] So yay, PLC.

[00:04:46] Thank you for that.

[00:04:47] Right. And I think that just to underscore sort of the influence that that program had on

[00:04:54] me is I can I can sit here and remember a number of the speakers and their presentations and

[00:05:01] whether it's Doug Price talking about the importance of giving back and how really the

[00:05:07] giver gets more out of it than the giver gives.

[00:05:11] So it's it's not a selfish act, but it's this wonderfully beautiful act of service that

[00:05:17] you as the donor or service giver actually gain more from.

[00:05:22] So Doug Price or so many others that as I sat there with my tie on on a Thursday

[00:05:28] night, that's right.

[00:05:30] Learning from these people.

[00:05:32] Absolutely. Well, you are see you through and through.

[00:05:35] And I know you did your undergraduate years, but then you also went to see law school.

[00:05:39] Right. And then you finished law school and took a bit of a detour to serve as a judge

[00:05:45] advocate for the U.S. Air Force in Germany.

[00:05:47] Talk about that period in your life.

[00:05:49] What learnings did you take away from that experience?

[00:05:53] What perspective did it give you?

[00:05:54] So when I was in law school, my now wife, Sally and I got married just before my third

[00:06:00] year of law school. And you have to start thinking about what what is next.

[00:06:04] Right. And I had always wanted to be in a place where I could serve my country.

[00:06:12] The Jag Corps was an amazing opportunity to both serve our country and get some really

[00:06:18] interesting legal experience and travel to sort of go with that.

[00:06:23] We were at Ramstein Air Force Base for three years in Germany and then Andrews Air Force

[00:06:29] Base for a year after that.

[00:06:31] And it was truly a formative time.

[00:06:35] And and I think that my family, our first child was born in Germany.

[00:06:41] Our second child was born in Maryland.

[00:06:44] And so it was really a wonderful time in our lives.

[00:06:48] Well, and then you come back to Colorado Springs, come home and you started El

[00:06:52] Pumar in 2000, right?

[00:06:53] 2000. And so when I came back here and got out of the military in 2000, I started

[00:07:01] as general counsel for the Broadmoor and General Counsel for El Pumar Foundation

[00:07:06] and continued in my general counsel role for the Broadmoor until the end of 2018.

[00:07:13] And my roles with El Pumar Foundation evolved over the years until I became CEO

[00:07:19] in early 2019.

[00:07:22] Well, it's been an incredible career over a number of years like I've had to at the

[00:07:26] Becher Foundation. We've kind of grown up in these organizations.

[00:07:30] It's been it's been great.

[00:07:32] And let's talk about the Penroses for a few minutes, the legacy that they have

[00:07:37] created through their visionary community service and investments in the

[00:07:42] community. And so 1937, I love that story that we're the two oldest

[00:07:49] private family foundations in the state of Colorado.

[00:07:52] I think you guys have a speech by a couple of days, a week or something.

[00:07:55] Yeah. And we know that Spencer Penrose and Charles Becher were

[00:07:58] contemporaries. Our founding documents are virtually the same.

[00:08:03] So they must use the same attorney, probably being efficient with their

[00:08:06] money. But talk about the impact of El Pumar since 1937.

[00:08:13] So, you know, if you if you look at Spencer and Julie Penrose and what

[00:08:17] the legacy that they left for this state.

[00:08:19] So with Spencer coming out here in 1892, Julie Penrose came here around

[00:08:27] 1902. And what I tell people about the history of the Pikes Peak region

[00:08:32] is that it really has two core features to it.

[00:08:37] One is gold and the other is tuberculosis.

[00:08:41] And so Julie Penrose came here with her then husband and two children from

[00:08:46] Detroit because her husband had tuberculosis.

[00:08:49] He ended up dying here and her son and her husband died in the same

[00:08:55] month, not the son had appendicitis, I believe.

[00:08:59] But so then he is passed away.

[00:09:02] Spencer Penrose is a confirmed bachelor.

[00:09:04] And then the two of them ended up getting married in, I believe, 1906.

[00:09:09] But what they created over that time after the discovery of gold and

[00:09:15] then he invested in copper in Utah, which a company that ultimately became

[00:09:19] Kennecott Copper. But with with that wealth that they earned, they

[00:09:25] really reinvested in in our community and whether it's building the

[00:09:29] Broadmoor Hotel, the road up Pikes Peak and starting the Pikes Peak

[00:09:34] International Hill Climb, the Shine Mountain Zoo, Broadmoor Art Academy,

[00:09:37] which became the Fine Arts Center.

[00:09:40] Each of these institutions must have been a really good idea because

[00:09:43] they continue today. It takes other people to continue them on.

[00:09:46] So 1937, they start El Pimar Foundation with the mission to enhance, encourage and

[00:09:52] promote the current and future well-being of the people of Colorado.

[00:09:56] And in all our grant making, we look at their life and times and what they

[00:10:00] were interested in. Spencer Penrose dies in 1939.

[00:10:04] Julie Penrose continues on at the helm until her death in 1956.

[00:10:10] So we really have a great track record of what she was interested in.

[00:10:14] And we know what he was interested in based on what he invested in in the

[00:10:19] state of Colorado and in the Pikes Peak region in particular.

[00:10:23] You know, another piece of the shared history, which I just love, is even

[00:10:27] though the respect of the founders, the men get the credit for doing

[00:10:32] wonderful, they're wonderful business people and philanthropists in their own

[00:10:36] right. The women carried the torch in the philanthropy space, whether it was

[00:10:42] Julie or May Betcher in our case too.

[00:10:45] And so that cannot be understated.

[00:10:48] The influence of all members of the family.

[00:10:51] I just love that.

[00:10:52] Yeah, I think that's definitely true.

[00:10:54] And Julie Penrose was at the helm of the Brailmore Hotel and part of

[00:10:59] that leadership structure that moved the hotel forward and the

[00:11:05] foundation forward for decades.

[00:11:07] Right. And well deserved.

[00:11:09] She was just named into the Women's Hall of Fame, right?

[00:11:13] Was Colorado Women's Hall of Fame recently.

[00:11:15] That's wonderful and so good that people know about that impact.

[00:11:19] Well, I want to steer it back to you.

[00:11:21] So your life, Kyle, as your friend and colleague, has been about one

[00:11:29] journey of investment in the community and a love of leadership and giving

[00:11:33] back. And I'm curious, where did that come from?

[00:11:36] Is that from your parents, nature, nurture?

[00:11:38] Is it where does that come from?

[00:11:39] Where you had this sense of wanting to either serve your country or give

[00:11:46] back in the community?

[00:11:47] Right. Certainly the influence of my parents was and is important in

[00:11:53] the importance of giving back to community.

[00:11:56] I have certainly developed a belief that every one of us needs to be in

[00:12:01] service to our community in some fashion at every point in time.

[00:12:06] And the way that we can be in service to community is different for different

[00:12:09] people. Is it your church community?

[00:12:11] Is it the kids sport community?

[00:12:13] Is it running for an elected office or being engaged on a school board or

[00:12:19] or serving in a capacity as a police officer, a firefighter, other first

[00:12:25] responder, or is it serving in the military?

[00:12:28] And I think if each of us considers what am I doing to make my community

[00:12:34] better and how am I participating in community?

[00:12:38] If we all ask ourselves that, then maybe we'll do just a little bit more

[00:12:43] in that community, whatever our community is.

[00:12:48] So true. And you have chosen from a lot of different options to do that,

[00:12:53] whether it was serving our country the way that you and Sally are

[00:12:57] involved in the Colorado Springs community.

[00:13:00] But one of the things that I love about your career is and journey and

[00:13:05] civic engagement is you did the elected official thing, right?

[00:13:09] And served two terms on the CU Board of Regents from 2007 to 2018.

[00:13:15] And I know that that was an intense time in higher education.

[00:13:20] Things were shifting a lot.

[00:13:22] Important decisions about funding, appropriations, policy, all sorts of

[00:13:26] things. So when you think about those times where you were a CU Regent,

[00:13:33] maybe share some stories about what you learned in that space or?

[00:13:37] There were so many lessons of I had the honor to be chair for a little

[00:13:42] over four years, chair of the board and learning to understand and work

[00:13:48] with my colleague how you run a board meeting.

[00:13:51] And part of it is you're a conductor.

[00:13:53] You're trying to bring forth the voices of your colleagues.

[00:13:58] And then what do you do when you come to an impasse and some impasses you

[00:14:01] come to are logical and some are emotional and or a combination of both.

[00:14:07] And being able to see if you can, what are the sources of those things?

[00:14:12] One of my colleagues, Steve Ludwig, I just happened to have lunch with him

[00:14:15] yesterday. He he said early on he was Democrat.

[00:14:19] I was Republican as we were elected.

[00:14:23] And he said, well, here's the thing.

[00:14:25] If we have a vote to take and we don't agree on it, let's just take the

[00:14:29] vote and move on because why spend six meetings arguing over something?

[00:14:34] We know that everybody's going to vote how they vote, which was an

[00:14:37] interesting thing.

[00:14:39] I would say that you didn't actually ask this, but the moment that I am

[00:14:45] most proud of, of being a regent for the University of Colorado was when

[00:14:52] things would get a little hot.

[00:14:53] I would go for a walk and sort of think about it.

[00:14:56] I knew this is one of my last meetings on the Board of Regents and it was at

[00:14:59] UCCS and I was walking behind all the buildings on one of the service

[00:15:04] roads and this maintenance truck pulls up next to me window comes down and I

[00:15:09] figured they were going to offer me a ride.

[00:15:11] I said, no, I don't don't need a ride.

[00:15:13] And they said, we're not doing that.

[00:15:15] I know who you are.

[00:15:17] I just want to say thank you for everything you've done for us.

[00:15:20] And at that moment coming out of a meeting where we weren't having the

[00:15:23] best time as a board was really, it made those 12 years really worth it.

[00:15:30] Well, thank you for your service in that context too, as a CU grad myself.

[00:15:35] That's a difficult leadership challenge to navigate how that governance is all

[00:15:40] set up and everything.

[00:15:42] And, but we are grateful to our alma mater for it's great contribution

[00:15:46] in this community for sure.

[00:15:47] Go buffs or skill buffs as the kids say nowadays.

[00:15:50] That's right.

[00:15:50] Absolutely.

[00:15:52] So Kyle, when you think about all of these, this portfolio of your,

[00:15:56] your life of service and leadership, has anything changed from the time you

[00:16:00] and I were in PLC, you know, we're learning about trying to be inspired by

[00:16:03] leaders, learning about leadership in like your personal philosophy.

[00:16:07] Has anything changed or shifted over the years, or is it the same?

[00:16:11] I would say the number of failures or mishaps or kind of challenges that

[00:16:19] that have happened over the years have made me a better leader, more wise.

[00:16:23] And when failures happen, if you can address it mentally and emotionally

[00:16:29] uh, properly, there are ultimately opportunities to, to grow and to

[00:16:34] know how to do better in the future.

[00:16:37] Right.

[00:16:37] Well, and talking about challenging leadership experiences, another

[00:16:44] thing we share is being parents.

[00:16:46] Right?

[00:16:46] We have, you have four kids.

[00:16:49] I have two boys and I have heard you talk about that your proudest

[00:16:54] accomplishment is raising your family.

[00:16:56] And I think that in at least my leadership journey, being a mother

[00:17:00] and a parent has been one of the hardest challenges.

[00:17:02] And I'm just curious about how you would reflect on that.

[00:17:06] Is there any advice you'd give folks about being a parent or

[00:17:09] advice you gave your kids?

[00:17:12] One thing I would say is that there's nothing more rewarding, nothing

[00:17:16] more exhausting than being a parent.

[00:17:18] Is that certainly true?

[00:17:20] The other thing I would say is that I am fortunate to have my life

[00:17:26] partner and love of my life, Sally, and she is a amazing mom.

[00:17:31] And I give her all the credit for us having kids who are now adults

[00:17:35] for the most part and on their own paths.

[00:17:38] But you have to be there for your kids and be engaged in what they're doing

[00:17:45] and interested in what they're doing, and then also be willing to say no.

[00:17:50] And you're not going to do that.

[00:17:52] And fortunately, Sally was a lot better at that than I was.

[00:17:55] So I was, I'd always sort of, Oh, did you talk to your mom about that?

[00:17:59] And, and so it's, it's important that we're there for them in their

[00:18:06] good times and they're bad.

[00:18:07] And, and in many ways we're just fortunate that they still like us.

[00:18:15] Amen to that.

[00:18:16] Absolutely.

[00:18:17] Well, I want to turn it back to our roles in leading these respective

[00:18:23] foundations and specifically just thinking about Colorado.

[00:18:26] When you think about what Colorado needs in the coming years, what comes to mind?

[00:18:32] Well, I mean, the, the easy stuff to say is mental health, attainable,

[00:18:37] affordable housing and good economic vibrancy.

[00:18:42] Um, and so I think those three things are, are certainly important

[00:18:47] and as a private foundation and as you know, we can't change all those things,

[00:18:52] but there are certain areas where our charitable dollars can make that

[00:18:57] meaningful difference and maybe can be a tipping point for something or even

[00:19:03] the starting point to be a catalyst for good.

[00:19:07] And so I see our role as, um, putting dollars in a place to encourage

[00:19:13] good leaders who are on a good mission, doing good things in their

[00:19:18] part of the state and in however they're doing it.

[00:19:22] And that is, it's amazingly rewarding as, as I'm sure you find it to be too.

[00:19:29] But it's, it's easy to give away money and it's, uh, it's challenging

[00:19:34] to give it away in a way that each dollar makes a $3 difference or

[00:19:40] something like that.

[00:19:41] And so I enjoy seeing that multiplier effect when we get it and you can't

[00:19:46] always have it, but it's pretty neat when, uh, when you do get that.

[00:19:51] Right.

[00:19:51] Absolutely.

[00:19:52] The, in fact, what you just said, paraphrase, there was a great quote

[00:19:56] that Claude Betcher said, a well-placed dollar is worth more

[00:19:59] than a nickel in every cup.

[00:20:00] And I think we look for those well-placed dollars, right?

[00:20:03] And we have the opportunity to invest in local leaders that know

[00:20:06] their community the best and are trying to make a difference.

[00:20:11] And you certainly do that at El Pamar.

[00:20:13] The one thing I did want to ask you to talk about, um, a little bit more,

[00:20:17] because this is one of the places that I see you having just tremendous impact

[00:20:23] is your regional councils and the El Pamar fellows.

[00:20:28] That is the leadership bench for the nonprofit community in the state

[00:20:32] and all sorts of other things that they end up doing.

[00:20:34] So just talk about both of those programs that they're just incredible.

[00:20:38] Sure.

[00:20:39] And I'll start with the fellowship because it, it was started around 1992.

[00:20:44] And I have a little bit of a theory that this was the time when I was in

[00:20:48] college and, uh, it's, this isn't necessarily true, but it's interesting.

[00:20:53] And, and I think that my dad saw the value of interns.

[00:20:57] It's like these guys really work hard.

[00:20:59] And, and, and, and so maybe we could do something like that.

[00:21:03] So in the early days, I think the fellowship was this really great sort

[00:21:08] of cohort of people who were helping do good and learning along the way.

[00:21:13] And now that we have some 300 alumni in the state of Colorado, in the country,

[00:21:18] there was, there was a, in the world of tipping points, a tipping point

[00:21:22] at some point, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, where you got a critical mass

[00:21:26] of these alumni and energy around them and the work that they're doing

[00:21:31] all in their own areas of impact, whether it's for-profit government or

[00:21:36] nonprofit.

[00:21:37] And so it's this really special group of people who are really capable and

[00:21:43] understand the nonprofit sector and care about the state and as an alumni

[00:21:49] group, um, we don't ask them for money.

[00:21:51] So that makes it probably a really good alumni group.

[00:21:54] Love it.

[00:21:55] Um, Kyle, say a little bit more about the regional councils.

[00:21:58] Sure.

[00:21:59] Uh, so the regional partnerships program, uh, started about 20 years ago.

[00:22:04] And this was a time when the trustees decided that we need to focus more

[00:22:10] on rural and Southern Colorado.

[00:22:12] And, you know, that was since our mission is to enhance, encourage, and

[00:22:17] promote the current and future wellbeing of the people of Colorado.

[00:22:20] We thought focusing on Southern and rural would be a good way to go, given

[00:22:24] the fact that the Denver metro area probably enjoys a little greater volume

[00:22:29] of philanthropic dollars.

[00:22:32] And Kathy Robbins, uh, who's now retired helped establish the program.

[00:22:37] And essentially it's, we have now the state divided up into

[00:22:41] 11 different regions.

[00:22:43] We have a five to seven, uh, community members, elected officials,

[00:22:47] business members, or just people who are the difference maker when a

[00:22:52] crisis happens in community and they help one inform our traditional

[00:22:56] grant making because we'll ask them about grant requests we get, but

[00:23:00] they also, as a group identify needs in their region and then have the

[00:23:05] ability to apply, uh, $200,000 a year toward those efforts to try and

[00:23:12] help solve an issue or, or create, you know, some change around an area.

[00:23:17] Interestingly of the 11 regions, almost all of them now are

[00:23:21] focused on mental health, um, whether that's youth mental health or otherwise.

[00:23:27] And mental health is defined fairly broadly in some of the instances

[00:23:31] but it's outdoor rec programs are important mental health tools.

[00:23:36] And so many things can make a difference, but these 70 community

[00:23:40] leaders have made us better grant makers.

[00:23:44] And I think we're addressing more important issues in the regions

[00:23:48] because they are saying these are important issues or these are good

[00:23:53] organizations and these are good leaders and it gives us the chance to

[00:23:58] know community better, not because we know community better, but because

[00:24:02] they do and they tell us about community.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:04] I think that that's one of the reasons that makes it so impactful is

[00:24:08] that these folks, they know what's best for their community.

[00:24:11] They know what's going on and that helps inform your grant making.

[00:24:15] So it's powerful the way that you invest in leaders and that's, I

[00:24:19] know a shared mission of both of ours.

[00:24:21] And you all are really doubling down in that area, which is, which

[00:24:25] is amazing.

[00:24:26] And your reach into parts of the state now is really, really amazing.

[00:24:32] And the leaders that you're working with and convening and training,

[00:24:37] they're all making a great difference.

[00:24:39] Well, it's been fun over the years collaborating and sharing.

[00:24:43] We do do some of that.

[00:24:44] We do, we do absolutely.

[00:24:46] And I just appreciate that so much, my friend in all the ways.

[00:24:49] It's been fun being on the professional journey and the personal

[00:24:53] journey and the parenting journey and the CU Buffs journey and all the journeys.

[00:24:57] But we really appreciate you coming on though.

[00:24:59] So you have just four more questions.

[00:25:02] It's a lightning round now, Kyle.

[00:25:03] So tell us what your favorite Colorado hobby is.

[00:25:06] My favorite Colorado hobby is skiing.

[00:25:08] Maybe you guessed that.

[00:25:09] I probably, yes, I probably had.

[00:25:11] I have a thought about what this next answer might be, but

[00:25:14] we'll see what you say.

[00:25:15] What's your favorite Colorado landmark?

[00:25:17] Pikes Peak.

[00:25:17] Of course.

[00:25:18] That was my guess.

[00:25:20] Have you, did you see it today?

[00:25:21] The snow up there is so beautiful.

[00:25:24] I was here last night too, so had the chance.

[00:25:26] It was kind of hiding out in the clouds yesterday and it burst

[00:25:30] through right about sunset and I was like, Oh, love it.

[00:25:33] America, the beautiful.

[00:25:35] Okay, Kyle, what action hero do you most identify with?

[00:25:38] So I would say that I'm not a huge action hero person, but I really, as

[00:25:44] a kid enjoyed the wonder twins and I liked them because they would, they

[00:25:48] really worked well together and one would be shape of and form of, and

[00:25:52] yes, they just great things done as a team.

[00:25:54] So I'm going with the wonder twins.

[00:25:56] Thank you for bringing that back to my memory.

[00:25:58] I can, I can hear them.

[00:25:59] Wonder twin powers activate.

[00:26:05] Love it.

[00:26:06] That's great.

[00:26:07] All right, Kyle, um, what are you currently binging?

[00:26:09] Is there a show, a podcast or a book or something that you are either, it's

[00:26:13] wasting your time maybe, or you are enjoying, um, reading or.

[00:26:18] So I'm sort of on a retro kick in a sense.

[00:26:21] I'm, I just finished and I'm more of an audio book person than, than a reading

[00:26:26] person, but I also want to thank the Pike's Peak library district because

[00:26:30] the ability to, and actually my mother-in-law, she volunteered before

[00:26:34] she passed away at the library and she was such a huge fan and I, but

[00:26:39] then with these audio books and you get it through Libby and if you

[00:26:42] don't like it, you send it back and you've got, I've got things on hold.

[00:26:45] But, uh, autobiography of Howard Thurman, I just finished not a couple of days ago.

[00:26:52] I just finished listening to Dale Carnegie's, uh, How to Win Friends.

[00:26:56] And, uh, so that's sort of the throwback and then, and then I'm also

[00:27:01] listening to Malcolm Gladwell's Talking to Strangers, which so far

[00:27:06] is about halfway through and I'm waiting for the, the happy part.

[00:27:10] So, because so far it's sort of, um, you know, we can't tell when

[00:27:14] people are lying to us.

[00:27:15] No, it's an interesting book, but it's like, it's a, it's a legal

[00:27:19] defense council's dream for.

[00:27:22] Oh, that's great.

[00:27:23] Well, a couple of things that I need to check out.

[00:27:24] That sounds great.

[00:27:25] Well, Kyle, thank you so much for coming on and appreciate

[00:27:28] the chance to catch up with you.

[00:27:30] It was great catching up with you too.

[00:27:31] Thank you, Katie.

[00:27:33] Thank you for joining Colorado Leadership Stories, where we hope to

[00:27:36] inspire the next generation of Colorado community builders, doers,

[00:27:41] and difference makers.

[00:27:42] Colorado Leadership Stories is presented by the Betcher Foundation.

[00:27:47] The Betcher Foundation supports Colorado by empowering leaders

[00:27:50] and communities with tools to tackle challenges and pursue

[00:27:54] opportunities, building a better state for everyone.

[00:27:58] With an 85 plus year legacy of giving back, we're committed

[00:28:02] to amplifying our impact for future generations.

[00:28:06] That's the spirit of Betcher.