Kenzo Kawanabe: Justice Through Service

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Katie Kramer, President and CEO of the Boettcher Foundation. Welcome to Colorado Leadership Stories, where we talk to everyday, courageous leaders who have made transformational impacts in their communities and are building a better state for everyone. You'll hear from leaders and organizations and communities throughout the state as we explore the idea that leadership is an activity that anyone can do.

[00:00:27] On today's episode of Colorado Leadership Stories, we're excited to welcome Kenzo Kawanabe, a passionate advocate for justice and community engagement. With multi-generational roots in Colorado's San Luis Valley, Kenzo learned at an early age the importance of service and advocacy. As a trial lawyer and civically engaged leader, Kenzo blends his legal expertise with a deep commitment to serving others. His journey as a leader is not about titles or positions. Kenzo leads to make

[00:01:02] impact inspiring others along the way. We could not be more excited about this conversation. Katie, we're going to turn it over to you.

[00:01:10] Thank you for joining us Kenzo.

[00:01:11] It is great to be here, Katie. I was trying to recall how long we've known each other and I got to think it's over 25 years. Does that sound right?

[00:01:19] I think that's right. We've been friends a long time and we have this other connection of the Boettcher Foundation being both Boettcher scholars and such.

[00:01:27] We'll talk about that.

[00:01:28] And you've been my boss too, right?

[00:01:30] Oh my goodness.

[00:01:30] You served on the Board of Trustees and was our chair.

[00:01:33] That would be the best hire ever, but please continue.

[00:01:36] Okay.

[00:01:37] Well, I can't wait to dig into this. This is so much fun to have you tell us your story.

[00:01:43] And like me, you're a fourth generation Colorado kid and you hail from the San Luis Valley.

[00:01:49] And so if you start us off there, talk to us chronologically. How'd that start? Tell us your family's story and how they came to Colorado.

[00:01:58] You bet. So my great grandparents on my dad's side immigrated from Japan to California and they were poor farmers.

[00:02:06] And a number of poor Japanese farming families were recruited to Southern Colorado and other tough areas to farm.

[00:02:14] So in the 1920s, my great grandparents immigrated Japan, California, ended up in Colorado.

[00:02:20] And so we've been in the San Luis Valley ever since.

[00:02:23] My relatives continue to farm potatoes, barley in the San Luis Valley near Mount Blanca.

[00:02:30] And that was on my dad's side.

[00:02:32] And because they were in Colorado before World War II, they did not have to suffer the injustice of the internment camps.

[00:02:40] Now, my dad met my mom at the University of Colorado.

[00:02:43] She'd come from Hawaii to Colorado for college and somehow convinced her to move to the Valley.

[00:02:50] So I went to Alamos High School, just like my dad, went to Alamos High School.

[00:02:54] But my mom's side of the family, they weren't so lucky.

[00:02:58] They were in California. World War II broke out.

[00:03:01] And they were ordered to pack up what they could carry, shipped off to internment camps in Poston, Arizona.

[00:03:08] And so they did have to suffer the injustice of the internment camps.

[00:03:11] Wow. And based upon that history, Kenzo, has that influenced your choice of career and the way you see the world?

[00:03:21] Yeah, you bet. Absolutely.

[00:03:23] I think my career, I'm a lawyer, and one of our foundational blocks is the rule of law.

[00:03:31] And I think back to my family's history about when the rule of law fails, when American citizens are forced into a camp to leave everything.

[00:03:42] That is against our Constitution.

[00:03:44] And I think it's part of my job to make sure that the Constitution is upheld and that things like the internment camps never happen again.

[00:03:54] I know that you've been a warrior for justice in a lot of ways in your career, and I know we're going to get to that.

[00:04:00] But I want to stay on the Valley for just a little bit longer.

[00:04:03] And I know you're one of four boys, right?

[00:04:06] And I'm friends with several of them.

[00:04:08] Just want to hear more about that story.

[00:04:10] I know your family was very involved in the community.

[00:04:12] And how did that history and those experiences when you were growing up shape your commitment to community service?

[00:04:20] The San Luis Valley, if you know Southern Colorado, it's a special place.

[00:04:25] It is.

[00:04:26] I think it is the, and I'm clearly biased, but I think it is the most beautiful place in the world.

[00:04:31] Giant, enormous dunes of sand nestled up against a 14er we call Mount Blanca.

[00:04:38] But what really makes the San Luis Valley special are its people.

[00:04:42] And there's something about being so isolated, feeling like we're often ignored by the rest of the state, that I think creates resilience, creates community because we rely upon each other.

[00:04:54] And I will say no one really is super wealthy in the Valley.

[00:04:59] And so we share.

[00:05:00] We share resources.

[00:05:02] We share love.

[00:05:03] And I think ultimately that is what community is all about.

[00:05:07] And so that's where I was raised.

[00:05:09] That's how I was raised by my parents who were involved in the community.

[00:05:13] My dad was one of the first promoters of solar energy.

[00:05:18] He was an architect.

[00:05:19] Broke away from the farming roots.

[00:05:21] My mom was a med tech at a hospital and then became a CPA and was an accountant down in the Valley.

[00:05:27] And we were taught to volunteer.

[00:05:30] And I think that is what makes community.

[00:05:33] It's about caring beyond yourself, caring beyond your family.

[00:05:37] It's caring about others.

[00:05:38] And that is what makes a stronger place.

[00:05:41] Definitely.

[00:05:42] Just reflecting back to spending like we do at the Betcher Foundation in the Valley.

[00:05:47] It's so distinct from other places in the state.

[00:05:50] And one of the things that I think just underscores the point you made is you ask anybody where they're from down there and they say the Valley versus like the individual community.

[00:06:01] You know, they may be from Del Norte or Alamosa or Manasseh or wherever.

[00:06:05] If you dig deeper on it, they may say that.

[00:06:07] They say I'm from the San Luis Valley.

[00:06:09] That's all right.

[00:06:09] There's an identity and a collaboration there that we certainly see here.

[00:06:13] And it is a beautiful and special place for scenery and people.

[00:06:17] I love that.

[00:06:18] I appreciate that.

[00:06:19] Now, part of it is because no one's ever heard of Alamosa or Fort Garland.

[00:06:22] That's not true.

[00:06:22] Or Del Norte.

[00:06:23] But they have heard, hopefully, of the San Luis Valley.

[00:06:26] Okay.

[00:06:26] So take us back to Alamosa High School where you won your Betcher Scholarship.

[00:06:34] And looking back, how has receiving the Betcher Scholarship impacted your leadership journey?

[00:06:41] The Betcher Foundation, it's just been an incredible force in my life.

[00:06:47] Back when I was a senior in high school and I opened up that white envelope that I think Betcher still mails to those scholars.

[00:06:55] And finding out that I won the Betcher Scholarship, which allowed me to pick any university in Colorado and have everything paid for, was such an incredible gift.

[00:07:04] I remember receiving the letter and jumping somewhere in the house with my mom and dad holding each other.

[00:07:11] That was a special gift financially.

[00:07:13] But more than that, it was a recognition that this small town, Hick from the Sticks, was someone who could achieve, was someone who could make a difference.

[00:07:22] That was important in the early part of my life.

[00:07:25] And that early recognition, I think, helped propel me on my ultimate journey to law school with an eye towards using my skills to make a difference.

[00:07:34] But I'll also say on the financial aspect, the financial freedom, I didn't know it at the time.

[00:07:39] But when I was in college, my dad unexpectedly passed away at 47.

[00:07:44] And to have that financial freedom because my dad left, my mom, my three brothers who were still in middle school and high school, was pretty incredible as well.

[00:07:54] Again, couldn't predict it, but I'm always grateful for it, for what Betcher Foundation did for my family.

[00:08:00] And then later, after I got back from law school in Washington, D.C., I came back from Georgetown to clerk for the Colorado Supreme Court.

[00:08:09] And it was you. It was you. It was Tim Schultz.

[00:08:12] It was the Betcher Foundation that I remember reaching out to me and saying, hey, would you like to get back involved in the community?

[00:08:19] You were one of the first touches to not just welcome me back, to bring me back to the community.

[00:08:24] And I remember interviewing young potential scholars three or four days.

[00:08:29] And I just always appreciated that.

[00:08:31] And I guess finally, when Betcher invited me to join the board, it was such an honor to be part of the organization that had already given me so much.

[00:08:41] And I'm sorry this is turning a bit into a commercial about the Betcher Foundation, but it really has been one of the most impactful organizations for my life.

[00:08:50] And what makes Betcher Foundation special, in my mind, is it actually cares about the communities where I grew up.

[00:08:58] And that's unique.

[00:09:00] It's not just about where the governor lives at Betcher Mansion.

[00:09:04] It's not where the symphony plays at Betcher Concert Hall.

[00:09:07] It's that Betcher Foundation has funded scholars and projects in every community in this state and continues to do so.

[00:09:14] That's rare.

[00:09:15] And that is what connects the state and makes us feel like one community.

[00:09:21] That's important.

[00:09:22] Thank you.

[00:09:23] Spoken like a true board chair and grateful for the commercial.

[00:09:27] And you know that I feel the same way, certainly as a staff member, but changed my life as a scholar, too.

[00:09:32] And I think the other thing, too, Kenzo, is the Betcher Foundation has benefited from your leadership significantly.

[00:09:39] But you have not just limited to the Betcher Foundation.

[00:09:42] I want you to talk about you are a community champion.

[00:09:46] And you've been recognized for that in many awards.

[00:09:50] So, you know, you were the board chair at the Denver Foundation.

[00:09:52] And say just a little bit more about how you and your family have paid it forward, just like the Betchers invested you in you.

[00:10:00] And now you're paying it forward in so many different ways with other organizations.

[00:10:06] Before I do, can I ask you a question?

[00:10:07] Well, geez.

[00:10:08] I mean, it's my podcast, but OK.

[00:10:10] Well, you mentioned that Betcher has been so important in your life.

[00:10:13] I am curious.

[00:10:14] You're now the CEO, but you started at the Betcher Foundation early on, shortly after college, right?

[00:10:20] Right.

[00:10:21] So why have you chosen to stay at the Betcher Foundation as a place where you've committed your life to service?

[00:10:28] Yeah.

[00:10:29] Well, thank you for asking that question, Kenzo.

[00:10:32] That could be another podcast, but I will answer it this way, that when I interviewed for the job here in my early 20s,

[00:10:39] the then president, Tim Schultz, asked me why I wanted the job.

[00:10:42] And I said there are three reasons.

[00:10:44] One is I want to be in a place where I am of service.

[00:10:48] Two is I want to be in a place where I'm always learning.

[00:10:51] And third, I want to be doing something that impacts education because I'm passionate about that area.

[00:11:00] And I will say that those three criteria throughout my career and all these different roles I've had here,

[00:11:06] those three reasons are still true.

[00:11:07] I learn something every day.

[00:11:09] We are of service in this state, as you talked about.

[00:11:13] And, you know, education, that's one of our biggest grantmaking areas of all time.

[00:11:19] So I think when you find a career, and I think this will double it back to you.

[00:11:23] So it's coming back.

[00:11:25] Is values aligned?

[00:11:26] It doesn't feel like a job.

[00:11:28] It's joyful that we can show up in our work lives and feel like we're making an impact, right?

[00:11:34] And I think that you have done that through your community involvement as well as your career.

[00:11:41] Do tell us about, I know you received like the Outstanding Community Volunteer Award,

[00:11:46] I think from National Philanthropy Day and some other awards, many others that we have like in your bio.

[00:11:52] But what are some of those other things, places that where you've invested in the community?

[00:11:57] All right.

[00:11:57] Way to shift it back to me.

[00:11:58] Appreciate that.

[00:12:00] So first, I view my life in three buckets.

[00:12:03] So for me, the most important bucket is my family bucket.

[00:12:06] And so I hope, I've tried to be a good partner.

[00:12:11] My wife, Irene, works at National Conference of State Legislatures.

[00:12:15] And my two daughters are now in college, Mika and Aya.

[00:12:18] I hope that I've made a difference in continuing to foster that sense of community and giving back.

[00:12:24] Because I do believe that's our obligation to future generations.

[00:12:28] So second bucket is my work bucket.

[00:12:31] And as part of that, after clerking, I've spent nearly 25 years.

[00:12:35] One of Denver's oldest and largest firms, Davis Grant.

[00:12:38] It was a great place to learn and to practice law.

[00:12:41] And they also instilled in me the duty to give back through pro bono work.

[00:12:47] So we did represent companies in various forms of litigation.

[00:12:51] But they also allowed me to volunteer my time and my skills, including in one of my greatest cases, which ended up losing,

[00:13:01] Lobato versus State of Colorado, to try and improve public education finance across this state.

[00:13:07] And that was the culture of Davis Graham continues to be that culture, even though I'm no longer there.

[00:13:12] And then that third bucket is the community service volunteer bucket.

[00:13:16] And so outside of my pro bono work, it's the other organizations that I've tried to be involved with.

[00:13:23] And I put those into four different areas myself.

[00:13:26] But I've tried to maintain a balance among those three buckets, prioritizing the family bucket,

[00:13:32] never feeling like I've actually ever achieved that balance.

[00:13:35] But that's how I've tried to organize my life.

[00:13:38] Hopefully that answers a little bit of your question.

[00:13:40] You know, it does.

[00:13:40] And let's double click on the professional area now, because I do want to talk more about the pro bono work you're doing

[00:13:50] and have you tell us about your new firm.

[00:13:53] Sure.

[00:13:54] Maybe share about some of those cases, whether pro bono work or otherwise, that you feel most proud of

[00:14:00] or you feel like had the biggest impact.

[00:14:02] Tell us a story about one of those.

[00:14:04] You bet.

[00:14:04] So I was fortunate at Davis Graham to represent individuals, for example, asylum seekers from Togo, Africa,

[00:14:12] refugees that ultimately we were able to get asylum for, represent two blind tenants in a landlord-tenant dispute.

[00:14:20] But for me, it's what I call impact litigation.

[00:14:23] So it's trying to improve and create systemic change in a positive way.

[00:14:28] And so through the Colorado Lawyers Committee and many partners, community partners, we represented 20 poor school districts, urban and rural, 20 families.

[00:14:39] And we sued the state of Colorado under the constitutional claim that every student under our constitution deserves a thorough and uniform form of education of public schools.

[00:14:50] And we don't have that in the state.

[00:14:52] If you grew up in the state, if you have kids in the state, you understand that the school's resources are so dependent on property values.

[00:15:01] Right.

[00:15:01] And so if you live in a property-rich district, you get more resources.

[00:15:05] That is not a meritocracy.

[00:15:07] Meritocracy gives the same resources to our kids so they have an equal shot to learn and to grow.

[00:15:13] That's what I believe our founders of our state constitution meant.

[00:15:16] And so we brought those claims.

[00:15:18] We recruited 19 volunteer attorneys from nine different law firms, engaged in 80 depositions, a five-week trial, and we won.

[00:15:27] We won that trial.

[00:15:28] And unfortunately, it went to a Supreme Court that reversed that win, 4-2 split decision.

[00:15:33] Again, that was one of the hardest and best cases I've ever worked on.

[00:15:38] But it has inspired me in my new firm to continue the hope, the goal that we can use our trial skills to create positive impact through impact litigation.

[00:15:51] Wow.

[00:15:52] And so the focus of the new firm is just on impact litigation, right?

[00:15:57] Yeah, it's a combination, I think.

[00:15:59] So we started a firm.

[00:16:01] I'll refer to it as Olson Grimsley.

[00:16:03] Its title is Olson Grimsley, Kawanabe, Hinchcliffe, and Murray.

[00:16:07] That's too much.

[00:16:09] That's a mouthful.

[00:16:09] So we go by Olson Grimsley.

[00:16:12] And so I was able to partner with four like-minded lawyers who are good trial lawyers.

[00:16:18] And so we're trying to establish a firm that does approximately a third plaintiff's work, a third just general disputes like commercial disputes that we all have experience in, and a third pro bono work.

[00:16:31] And so that includes pro bono work in elections.

[00:16:34] Again, public education.

[00:16:36] We also do low bono work representing school districts.

[00:16:40] So we charge much less than we would normally charge to represent them as well.

[00:16:45] Well, that's great.

[00:16:46] And certainly your history in the state and your family's histories inspired that commitment to making sure that things are fair and just, even though we know they aren't.

[00:16:58] Well, and so much of it is, I believe, I mentioned before in the rule of law, but the rule of law doesn't work unless people and organizations have access.

[00:17:08] Right.

[00:17:09] Access to our courts.

[00:17:10] And that's why, for me as a lawyer, I took an oath.

[00:17:14] And part of our oath is to represent the indigent.

[00:17:17] And part of our professional conduct rules state that we should aspire to give at least 50 hours every year.

[00:17:24] Hopefully at Olson Grimsley we'll do much more.

[00:17:26] To pro bono work.

[00:17:28] Because that is access.

[00:17:29] Having a lawyer in a courtroom, in a trial, gets you better representation, period.

[00:17:34] And so I think that's part of our job.

[00:17:37] It's part of our duty to help make that happen.

[00:17:39] Well, it's inspirational and grateful for warriors like yourself.

[00:17:44] Well, so let's talk about your other bucket.

[00:17:47] I know I've tried to tease this out a little bit, but you've served various community organizations and nonprofits.

[00:17:54] Sakura Foundation, of course, Betcher, Colorado Lawyers Committee, just to name a few.

[00:17:59] Kenzo, there's so many things you could choose to do with your time.

[00:18:02] And I know your time is limited because, yes, you want to be a career-loving father and partner.

[00:18:08] And you want to do good in your job, but also in the community.

[00:18:13] So how do you decide which civic initiatives you want to get involved with?

[00:18:17] I mean, I can't do it all, right?

[00:18:19] And so I think about four areas where I think I can sort of best make a difference, either through my skills or through my passions.

[00:18:28] And so skill-wise, one of those areas are organizations, legal organizations, that provide those legal services.

[00:18:36] And in our system of justice, most criminal defendants, if they can't afford a lawyer, they get one through the public defender system.

[00:18:45] And that's great.

[00:18:45] But if you're on the civil side, for example, a victim of domestic violence that needs a TRO or elderly people who have been swindled and are being kicked out of their home,

[00:18:56] that's on the civil side and you don't get a lawyer.

[00:18:59] And so organizations that I volunteer with, like Colorado Legal Services, is a statewide provider of those types of legal services.

[00:19:07] Colorado Lawyers Committee is a consortium of over 90 law firms across the state that have agreed to try and work together.

[00:19:14] That was the Lobato case to try and impact and make a positive difference.

[00:19:18] So that's sort of area one. Area two are organizations that have a statewide impact to make sure we touch those areas that are often ignored.

[00:19:27] Betcher is one of those. Colorado State University is another.

[00:19:31] Indeed.

[00:19:32] I'm privileged to serve on the board with Chancellor Tony Frank and a number of wonderful people about our land grant institution,

[00:19:41] which was signed into law with other land grant institutions.

[00:19:45] Abraham Lincoln, back in the day, thought we should expand higher ed beyond just the classics, as they said, to agriculture, science, engineering.

[00:19:54] And so Colorado State is a land grant institution.

[00:19:57] And I'm proud that Colorado State reaches the entire state, obviously outside of the state.

[00:20:03] But we have campuses in Fort Collins, Pueblo, Global for online learning.

[00:20:07] But we have extension offices on the western slope, northern Colorado, southern Colorado and eastern plains.

[00:20:13] Colorado State does a good job at that.

[00:20:15] So that's sort of area two.

[00:20:17] Should I talk about areas three and four?

[00:20:19] Yes, please.

[00:20:20] Quickly? Okay.

[00:20:21] Area three, I'm still involved with local work.

[00:20:25] I believe in the power of philanthropy and financial fiscal responsibility.

[00:20:31] And so I volunteer with organizations like Denver Foundation.

[00:20:34] They are one of the largest community foundations in the country.

[00:20:39] Barton Institute, which serves as a fiscal agent for organizations, including organizations that provide services for our immigrant communities.

[00:20:48] And finally, I volunteer in various Asian Pacific American organizations because I believe stronger APA communities make a stronger whole community.

[00:20:58] So that includes Sakura, which you just mentioned.

[00:21:01] That's the Japanese American area, downtown Denver, as well as Asian Americans Advancing Justice, which is a national civil rights organization in Washington, D.C.

[00:21:10] So those are the four areas.

[00:21:12] I don't do it all at the same time.

[00:21:13] But I try and pick organizations that where I can contribute via my either trial skills or through my passions.

[00:21:23] Kensa, that sounds just like you.

[00:21:25] So intentional.

[00:21:26] You've got your three buckets.

[00:21:27] You've got your four areas.

[00:21:29] But seriously, I think just to reflect back to you, when you think about how you want to make an impact in the world through time, talent, treasure, ties, we talk about that at the Betcher Foundation.

[00:21:42] I think what you've just shared is such a good example of that, where you're using your smarts and your skills to advance impact.

[00:21:50] You're doing things that are close to your heart and as well as just how you give your time, whether pro bono work or to any of these variety of community engagements.

[00:22:01] So it's great.

[00:22:02] Great lesson.

[00:22:03] And you're such a wonderful role model in all the ways.

[00:22:05] So this is a Colorado Leadership Stories podcast.

[00:22:09] And I feel like we have to ask a leadership question, which is when you think back on your career, is there one leadership lesson, Kenzo, that you feel like you have learned that's maybe made you successful?

[00:22:24] Ooh, that's a good question.

[00:22:26] I don't know if there's one specific instance.

[00:22:30] You know, I do believe in servant leaders.

[00:22:33] Absolutely.

[00:22:34] I think the lesson that I've learned, though, is, and Javier Soto talked about this, CEO of the Denver Foundation, is that you have got to lead, or at least I believe I should lead with humility.

[00:22:46] And what does that mean?

[00:22:48] And I'm going to say three things.

[00:22:49] Does that surprise you?

[00:22:50] No, please do.

[00:22:51] I mean, leading with humility, number one, is it's not about you.

[00:22:56] Right.

[00:22:56] So many leaders, I think, are in it to, quote, lead because it gets them recognition or it gets them in a space where they want to advance.

[00:23:06] But that's not true leadership.

[00:23:08] Leadership with humility is realizing it is not about you.

[00:23:12] What is the ultimate goal, right, for that community or for that organization?

[00:23:16] Yes.

[00:23:17] Second is that you're actually not that special.

[00:23:20] You don't accomplish anything by yourself.

[00:23:22] And you have to remember that you're part of a team that is involved with leading through humility.

[00:23:28] And then finally is that you can always do better.

[00:23:31] That maybe you did a pretty good job.

[00:23:33] Maybe you did a pretty bad job.

[00:23:35] But ultimately, you've got to evaluate what you did.

[00:23:38] I know we call it metrics.

[00:23:39] Right.

[00:23:39] Evaluate what you did.

[00:23:40] Talk about what you can do better so that you do do better in the future.

[00:23:45] To me, that is the leadership that I try and emulate.

[00:23:48] Well, and that I will tell the audience that is exactly how you showed up here at Vetcher as our board chair and such.

[00:23:56] And, you know, I really appreciate, especially, Kenzo, when I think about your impact on us thinking about how we want to make transformational impact here.

[00:24:06] Sure.

[00:24:07] But then the next question is, how do you know it's transformational?

[00:24:10] And how do you know it's impactful?

[00:24:11] And you were so wonderful.

[00:24:14] You know, really helped us to drive this evaluation culture that we now have as we're looking at all the ways and being good stewards of this generous family's money that is intended to make Colorado a better place.

[00:24:27] So thank you for your influence on us.

[00:24:29] We are very grateful for that.

[00:24:31] Thanks, Katie.

[00:24:32] Can I answer the question a little more generally, though?

[00:24:34] So, I mean, that's for me.

[00:24:35] So let's talk about the courtroom.

[00:24:37] And so how does leadership show up, at least in my philosophy, in the courtroom?

[00:24:42] And I think of three ways.

[00:24:44] One is our job in the courtroom is to be a storyteller, right?

[00:24:48] To tell our client's story in the most persuasive way possible.

[00:24:52] And so I'm part of a team of lawyers.

[00:24:55] And so leading a team of lawyers is really in service of that team.

[00:25:01] My job is to make sure that we allow space for everyone to be better.

[00:25:06] And that's how I was trained.

[00:25:08] So I was trained by getting experiences to actually take witnesses, present evidence at trial.

[00:25:14] And so part of that leadership is to try and give those experiences for our newer attorneys, because I think that makes better attorneys develop their skills.

[00:25:24] But it makes a stronger team.

[00:25:26] And we make a stronger team representing our client to most persuasively tell our client's story.

[00:25:32] That's one.

[00:25:34] Two is leadership is the respect that we give to judges and juries.

[00:25:38] And that goes back to the rule of law.

[00:25:39] We have the best system in the world.

[00:25:41] It is not perfect.

[00:25:42] It has its flaws.

[00:25:44] But think about the other systems of justice.

[00:25:47] And we actually, in our Constitution, have a right to have our peers decide our disputes.

[00:25:53] That's pretty unique.

[00:25:54] And so and we expect our jurors to volunteer their time to decide those disputes.

[00:26:00] Right.

[00:26:00] And so that that's a lot.

[00:26:03] Our judges often give up lucrative careers in order to get into public service to become judges because they are part of this system with the rule of law.

[00:26:14] So leadership is respect to the judges and juries, including never represent the law.

[00:26:20] I mean, if the case if there are cases against you, you raise them up and you tell the court that.

[00:26:25] And then finally, I think leadership in the courtroom is also about professionalism.

[00:26:30] So we fight fiercely.

[00:26:33] We fight hard.

[00:26:34] But at the end of the day, we are a profession.

[00:26:36] And so leadership also means extending professionalism to opposing counsel.

[00:26:40] That's important to keep our legal system where it should be.

[00:26:44] Right.

[00:26:44] It is about professionalism.

[00:26:46] Let's not play games.

[00:26:47] Let's represent our clients.

[00:26:49] But ultimately, it is the law and how they apply to the facts that should determine the outcome.

[00:26:54] Great answer.

[00:26:55] And three parts.

[00:26:56] Again, well done.

[00:26:59] Making fun of my organization.

[00:27:01] That's so fun.

[00:27:02] That is so fun.

[00:27:03] That's exactly what Irene does.

[00:27:05] No, I make fun of it because I did the same thing.

[00:27:08] I gave you my three part answer earlier.

[00:27:10] Well, OK, so we are going to turn it to the lightning round now.

[00:27:14] Lightning.

[00:27:14] Let's do it.

[00:27:15] And we'll see.

[00:27:15] I have a suspicion for what you might say, but I might be surprised.

[00:27:19] OK, what is your favorite Colorado hobby, Kenzo?

[00:27:23] Oh, gosh.

[00:27:25] Can you call mountains a hobby?

[00:27:27] Sure.

[00:27:27] Can you do all the mountain things as your hobby?

[00:27:29] I don't do all the mountain things.

[00:27:32] I'm not a rock climber, but I love our mountains.

[00:27:34] I do.

[00:27:35] I mean, hiking, skiing.

[00:27:38] I just feel like when I get to the mountains, I can sense my blood pressure going down.

[00:27:42] Do you know what I mean?

[00:27:43] I do.

[00:27:43] I do.

[00:27:44] I wish we were in the mountains right now.

[00:27:46] Yes.

[00:27:46] Me too.

[00:27:47] We have to look at them out the window.

[00:27:49] I suppose.

[00:27:49] OK.

[00:27:50] Wait, wait, what's yours?

[00:27:52] Fishing.

[00:27:53] It's got to be fishing.

[00:27:54] Oh, nice.

[00:27:54] I love to fish.

[00:27:56] OK.

[00:27:57] Favorite Colorado landmark, Kenzo?

[00:27:59] The Great Sand Dunes, without hesitation.

[00:28:01] OK.

[00:28:01] Well, I thought you were going to say Mount Blanca.

[00:28:03] But yes, very regionally appropriate.

[00:28:06] That is right next door.

[00:28:07] That's right.

[00:28:09] All right.

[00:28:10] What action hero do you most identify with?

[00:28:16] Oh, I would love to say Superman or Wonder Woman, but I can't.

[00:28:23] I think it's a hero that has a bunch of insecurities combined with weird ego.

[00:28:29] So I'll go with Spider-Man.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:32] So always wondering, am I good enough?

[00:28:36] Right.

[00:28:36] I mean, imposter syndrome, that exists in all of us.

[00:28:39] And so I like those heroes with those human flaws.

[00:28:42] I hate to say the word flaws.

[00:28:44] I don't think they're flaws at all.

[00:28:45] I think, again, it's humility.

[00:28:48] Realizing, gosh, I have strengths.

[00:28:49] I have weaknesses.

[00:28:50] I can always be better.

[00:28:52] But at the end of the day, I have something.

[00:28:54] And so I'm going to try and use that something to be better and to hopefully better others.

[00:28:59] That was one of the most profound answers to that question.

[00:29:02] Well done.

[00:29:02] Oh, my gosh.

[00:29:03] I love that.

[00:29:03] Can I go back?

[00:29:04] Batman.

[00:29:05] No.

[00:29:07] Funny.

[00:29:09] Okay.

[00:29:10] All right.

[00:29:10] Kenzo, I'd be interested to hear this, too, because I know you and I compared notes on what we're reading and thinking about.

[00:29:16] But what are you currently binging?

[00:29:17] Is there a show or a book or a podcast that you're liking that is wasting your time or you're really enjoying it either?

[00:29:24] I'm about to start, so I have not yet seen this, I guess, drama miniseries called Expats with Nicole Kidman.

[00:29:33] So I can't comment on it, but that's my plan.

[00:29:35] That's in the queue.

[00:29:37] So I'll just recommend an old school book, Principled Politician by Adam Schrager.

[00:29:44] And it's about not so well known, but one of my heroes, Ralph Carr, governor of Colorado, extremely popular politician who took a principled stand.

[00:29:54] One of the few politicians that sacrificed his political career by doing the right thing and saying that internment of Japanese Americans was unconstitutional.

[00:30:05] Unbelievably unpopular position during World War II, but he did it because it was the right thing.

[00:30:12] It cost him his political career.

[00:30:13] But we honor him in the state of Colorado because that's where we house our Colorado Supreme Court, Colorado Court of Appeals, various other great legal agencies at the Ralph Carr Justice Center.

[00:30:27] And so a principled politician by Adam Schrager.

[00:30:30] And such a great way to end, full circle, Kenzo pulling in all the things we talked about.

[00:30:37] Thank you, my friend, for the time today.

[00:30:39] As always, it's just a delight to visit with you.

[00:30:42] We don't see each other that often, but it's like we can just pick up.

[00:30:46] Right there.

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:47] Yep.

[00:30:47] I appreciate you.

[00:30:48] And I appreciate what you and the Betcher Foundation do.

[00:30:51] Thank you.

[00:30:51] Thank you for joining Colorado Leadership Stories, where we hope to inspire the next generation of Colorado community builders, doers, and difference makers.

[00:31:02] Colorado Leadership Stories is presented by the Betcher Foundation.

[00:31:06] The Betcher Foundation supports Colorado by empowering leaders and communities with tools to tackle challenges and pursue opportunities, building a better state for everyone.

[00:31:17] With an 85-plus year legacy of giving back, we're committed to amplifying our impact for future generations.

[00:31:26] That's the spirit of Betcher.