Angie Paccione: When Place Activates Potential

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Katie Kramer, President and CEO of the Boettcher Foundation. Welcome to Colorado Leadership Stories, where we talk to everyday, courageous leaders who have made transformational impacts in their communities and are building a better state for everyone. You'll hear from leaders and organizations and communities throughout the state as we explore the idea that leadership is an activity that anyone can do.

[00:00:31] Meet Katie Kramer, former professional basketball player, Colorado legislator, educator, and the former executive director of the Colorado Department of Higher Education. From the South Bronx to Stanford University, Aurora Classrooms, the Colorado State House, and statewide higher education leadership, Angie's journey has been defined by a commitment to education, public service, and creating opportunities for others.

[00:00:58] Recently, Angie was selected as a Nine News 2026 Colorado Leader of the Year. And I'm delighted to have her here on the podcast today. Welcome, Angie. Angie Paccione- Thank you for having me. There's a whole list of amazing people that you've interviewed, so I'm happy to be one of them. Dr. Pancel- Well, this is one that I've been really looking forward to because you have such an interesting background and have done so many things. So let's dive right in. Dr. Pancel- Okay.

[00:01:21] Dr. Pancel- And one of the first places I want to start is every year at the Betcher Foundation, we have a theme. And this year, it's Power of Place. And I know that that has shown up for you in your life. You were born in the South Bronx and later moved to very different environments outside of the city. How did your childhood in New York City shape how you understood access to opportunity at a young age?

[00:01:45] Dr. Pancel- Well, it's a great question because when you think about the South Bronx, it's very limited, you would think, especially back when I was born. I was born in 1960, so it was a long time ago. And most people grow up and they have two families. They have their mom's family and their dad's family, but I don't know my birth father. So I only have my mom's family. And my mom's black and my birth father is white. But let me tell you, my mom's family was plenty. I had six uncles. I had six uncles, my own two brothers. I have an aunt and lots of cousins.

[00:02:15] And I think most importantly for growing up there, my grandpa had a restaurant. And my Uncle Mo was his kind of right-hand man. And I spent a lot of time growing up in the restaurant. So I really felt protected, six uncles. And I learned to explore the city.

[00:02:31] And that also meant things like developing courage and resilience and even a little bit of toughness that I think really developed into confidence. But most importantly, my Uncle Mo, my Uncle Mo, and I've learned later that my mom and my grandma were like this too, but my Uncle Mo talked to everyone.

[00:02:52] And anybody who knows me knows I talk to everyone. And so I learned that, I think, from watching him and how he treated people. He treated everyone as if they were the only customer. And so that's how I treat people. I try to treat people as if they're the only person. So I learned a lot from him. Oh, I bet. And I want to quote you to you when we were prepping for this. But you've talked about how activating potential is so important to you.

[00:03:18] And so which opportunities helped activate your potential as you transitioned from growing up to Stanford on an athletic scholarship? And, by the way, you graduated with honors from Stanford. So, oh my goodness. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. So this is really important to me, activating potential. The word potential gets thrown around a lot. Everybody has it, right? But it's really true. Everyone does have it because I've studied that a lot.

[00:03:43] And the scientific definition of potential is stored energy, like a battery has. You can put it on a shelf and it'll stay. It'll keep that stored energy. It's activated when you put it in the thing it was made for. Then it activates that stored energy. Well, it can also be deactivated if you destroy it or if you drain it. But the natural state of potential is unactivated. That's a natural statement.

[00:04:07] Well, human definition of potential is stored greatness. And we all have it. That's why we always say potential, potential. Because we all have the stored greatness. But the natural state is unactivated. We have to do something to activate the potential. Or we can also deactivate it. And one of the ways is the power of the place, like you said.

[00:04:29] And so for me, growing up in that place, if you will, and then having opportunities, the power of opportunity activates potential. And the opportunity for me was a basketball camp run by the Kennedys. Not the political Kennedys, but Bob and Pat Kennedy. And it was the best girls' basketball camp in the country at the time. And all of the top college coaches were the counselors. And ultimately, the Olympic team in 1976, they were the counselors.

[00:04:54] So I got exposed to the best in that sport. And that gave me the opportunity to go to Stanford because the woman who directed the camp was the head coach at Stanford. Oh, my. So, yeah. Great connection. And thank you for that wonderful analogy, too. I love that. Well, I did want to talk a little bit more about athletics. That's been a through line for you. And I didn't realize this, but you actually coached at Smoky Hill High School, right? I did. Both the boys and the girls' basketball teams. I did.

[00:05:22] Great. So what has being an athlete taught you about leadership? Yes. So I coached the girls' freshman team when I first started teaching at Smoky Hill. And then, ultimately, I coached the boys' varsity. I was the first woman in the history of Colorado to coach boys' high school varsity basketball. And so my license plate says first one because the boys made me get that back in 1990.

[00:05:41] I know. Yeah. So but I think that all of athletics teaches you things, again, things like to reinforce resilience. How do you recover from a loss? How do you recover from an injury? How do you sometimes how do you deal with I had good coaches? I won't say anything about my coaches, but sometimes you have teams that maybe are not the best. And so a lot about resilience, but also about dedication because it doesn't – sports doesn't just happen during the sports season.

[00:06:09] It's what you do in the off season that determines how well you're going to be able to play in the actual season. So there's a lot of fundamental things. One thing I will say is Ernst & Young did a study a few years ago, and it showed that 92% of women in senior leadership roles in businesses were former athletes. Because you learn – you too. Oh, so. So you see? Because you learn, you know, you learn how to lead. That's right. You learn how to work with a team. Teamwork.

[00:06:39] Yes. And all of those things are essential for leading in business as well. Well, connect some dots here for me. So you went to Stanford and tell us what you majored in, but you enter education, and then I hear that there's part of the story that you were then researching and teaching at CSU too. And so I wanted you to sort of help us hear about how that story went, and then I'll ask my follow-up. There's a lot of years in between there.

[00:07:07] But so, yeah, I went to Stanford, and then when I graduated, I played some professional women's basketball in the WNBA, which came before the WNBA. And that one folded because nobody came to our games. But it was a great experience nonetheless. And I also played in Europe every summer for like five years. And so a lot of basketball. But then when the league folded, that's how I came to Colorado. I had some friends here. I was heavily involved with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

[00:07:35] And so I came out here and came for two weeks. And I've been here for 40 years, so I never left. And then a friend of mine was a high school teacher. She invited me to come speak to her class. And in the first 10 minutes, I was like, oh, I'm going to be a teacher. I had studied political science and psychology after getting my first C in organic chemistry. I thought, let me try something else. Anyway, and so I became a teacher.

[00:08:01] I went to DU to get my teaching license and taught at Smokey, a student taught there, and then became a teacher there. Here's the thing about potential as well. You've seen it. You know when people have potential. You can see it in young kids, and you can see it in adults. Well, the adult, the principal of the high school that I was teaching at, saw leadership capability and said, you know, you'd make a good principal someday. Have you ever thought about getting your principal's license? Hadn't thought about it, but I went up to CSU, and I got my master's.

[00:08:29] And the dean of the College of Education said, have you ever thought about being a professor? I think you'd be really good. And so I stayed and became a first, as I was getting my doctorate, I was a full-time instructor, and then I became a professor there. Wow. And then speaking of impact, so we have Professor Pacioni. Yes. Who then decides to enter politics. So, okay, so tell us that story. This is 2003.

[00:08:52] You're elected to represent West Fort Collins in the Colorado House of Representatives, and then served as the House Majority Caucus Chairwoman and the first African-American female to hold that position. What pushed you to take that move? This is an amazing story because I had no interest in politics. I loved political science because I really loved my one professor, David Donelsky. He was fantastic. I took everything he taught. Oh, I have a poli-sci major. But I never really thought about politics. And even as a professor, I didn't.

[00:09:21] But in 2000, I went to vote. Yeah. And I didn't always vote every time. I usually just voted every four years for the president and whoever's on the ballot. As I was going down the ballot, there was no—I'm a Democrat. There was no Democrat on the ballot for the congressional race. And I actually wasn't sure what—did I have to vote for that person or— Right. Could you write your own name in? Could you write your name? Could you leave it blank? Right. Well, in that moment, that still small voice said, you'll be on the ballot in 2002. Ooh. To which I laughed because I was like, I don't even know how you get on a ballot.

[00:09:51] And I learned how you get on a ballot. And I was on the ballot in 2002 for the statehouse. Not Congress, but for the statehouse. Wow. Wow. It was a whim. My first day at the Capitol was freshman—like, first-year orientation. I had never even been to the Capitol. Oh, my goodness. Well, and during your time in the legislature, I know you focused on some things that you have been passionate about your whole life, youth and higher education.

[00:10:15] And I'm wondering if there was a particular policy or collaboration that stands out to you during that time or the approach to leadership you had when you were doing whatever advocacy that was. Yeah. And you mentioned access. And that was always really important to me, to see that people on the margins of our communities and our society get an opportunity to come in because it activates their potential as well. They all have potential. And so for me, I knew that growing up in the inner city and then being a teacher educator,

[00:10:45] that there was a lot of services and support for kids who were in need. But I also taught at Smoky Hill where we had the International Baccalaureate Program. And many of those students would come back and say that first year of college was a waste for them. And so I thought, what could we do for that? So the first bill that I passed was the IB bill that gives IB diploma graduates 24 college credits.

[00:11:11] I tried to give them a sophomore standing, but my negotiations with the institutions of higher ed, we got 24. And so that was the first bill that I passed. And then being on the campuses, I heard at that time we had an outbreak of kids who were binge drinking and unfortunately were dying from that where their classmates would leave them on a couch thinking they'd sleep it off. And instead, the worst happened. So I brought a bill for that and I said, we could do better.

[00:11:39] So they were afraid, the students were afraid that they would get kicked off campus, lose their scholarship, get an MIP minor in possession because some of them had been drinking. And so we eliminated all that and made it like the Good Samaritan, that if you stayed on the scene and you called 911, you would not lose a scholarship, lose any of those kinds of things. And I don't think we've had a binge drinking death since that. Wow. And all the institutions share that in freshman orientation. So that feels good to me. Those are a few things. Powerful impact.

[00:12:09] So you do your stint in the Colorado legislature. And then I know there's a part of this story that took you to the private sector for a while. Yes. So tell us about that 12-year stint and what that was all about. Yeah. So again, I say yes to the opportunity and I tell other people to do as well. And the opportunity came up to run for Congress in 2006. So I'd served two terms and everybody said, you should run, you should run. So I said, okay, I'll run.

[00:12:38] And I ran for Congress and lost by two and a half percent in 2006, one of the closest races in the country at the time. And so my grandmother had always told me, never go back to what you've already done. So I had been a professor and I had the opportunity to go back, but I was listening to my grandmother's voice. And so I instead, one of my students that I had mentored at CSU was doing this leadership development with a company called Varis Global.

[00:13:05] And I had told him years before, someday I think I'm going to work with you. Well, after I lost the election, hey, Brett. And so I started working with Varis Global, which is a company that does essentially leadership development all over the world for companies, big and small. And it was 12 years of the best work I've ever done, plus great travel too. But really helping people be better leaders.

[00:13:32] Well, and since this is Colorado Leadership Stories and we're sort of talking about your leadership journey, then I have to ask you, like, how do you think about leadership? How do you define that? I'm sure you have an answer to that, being as experienced as you are, as well as, you know, certainly working in the field. Yeah. You know, the verb to lead means to go first. Doesn't mean you're first in line or you're the, you know, the first one to speak.

[00:14:01] It means that you model the behaviors you want to see in others. And so if you want your team to have courage, you've got to show courage. And if you want your team to speak up in meetings, then you've got to, you have to create the conditions for that. And so I think that for me is, has always been leadership. It's not, and I think you say, you know, it's, it's, everyone can do it. Yes. But in truth, everyone's already doing it. The question is, do they do it well? And that's where I think what Veris Global does is to come in with some, some tools and

[00:14:31] skill set to, to help, help you do it even better. And so, so for me, I think that's, for me, leadership is really about how do you live? Because how you live is also how you lead. And so if we can do those things right, then I think we can get what we want to get out of life and be fulfilled and inspired as well. Mm-hmm. Well, I wanted to ask you then too about this. When you came in today, you have this beautiful book here that's sitting here.

[00:14:58] Were you writing this book and tell everybody about the book, but was this also happening when you were in the private sector? Yes. So, so I'm a co-author of the book with Craig Ross and with Victoria Roberts. And so Craig was the CEO of Veris Global at the time. Okay. And we wanted to put some of our work out there in the world to say, here are some tools. There's a few tools in there that will help people to really accelerate the progress of their leadership and of their outcomes. Sure. So it's called Do Big Things.

[00:15:26] The Simple Steps That Teams Can Take to Mobilize Hearts and Minds and Make an Epic Impact. So you see that word impact show up a lot in my life. Yes, for sure. I'm currently the Chief Impact Officer at Veris Global because I think that's really important. How you do that, truly, when we talk about hearts and minds because that's really important. Every business has a business imperative and their strategies and the things they must do. But there's also the human imperative that gets lost sometimes.

[00:15:51] So sometimes in the pursuit of the business imperative, people get chewed up and spit out. But if we see people and we see them here that they're seen, heard, valued, and celebrated, then they develop more of a commitment to the work and to their people around them. And so we have to mobilize both hearts and minds to make an epic impact. Well, I can't wait to read it and thank you for signing it for me. That's awesome. I'm such a leadership nerd. Love it. Love it. You're writing a book, too, I hear. Yes.

[00:16:21] We're working on that at Boettcher. That's great. That's great. I want one of those, too. Okay. Coming your way in a couple years, I think. So tell me about the phone call that you received from the governor when you were doing your stint in the private sector. Yes. And, you know, the work that we do at Veris is global. It's called Veris Global, and there's a reason. So I was having a blast, truly.

[00:16:47] I got a text message from Governor-elect Polis, who I had known when I was in the legislature. So I had known him for a while. And he said, hey, Angie, I want you in my cabinet. We're going to have fun. And I was like, do you know how much fun I'm having? But, you know, I have so much respect for Jared, and he's really brilliant. And a lot of people don't get to see his brilliance behind the scenes. And I thought, what a great opportunity, again, saying yes to the opportunity to work with somebody who I had deep respect for and deep appreciation for his brilliance.

[00:17:15] And so I said yes, and I came off the road and served seven years, the longest of any director of education. So that was great. Tell us about that role. I don't think that some people understand what the commissioner does and sort of what that scope of responsibility is and what you're really trying to work to accomplish for the state. Yeah. So when I got there, I looked at the mission, and the mission had, you know, we develop policy and things like that.

[00:17:43] And then at the end, it said to support students. And so the first thing I did was change that. And I said, first, we support students. Then we develop policy and those kinds of things. And so that was really important to me that we were a, you know, obviously we're a part of the executive branch. And so we, you know, we work with the governor and execute his vision for higher education. But I really wanted to do it in a student-centered way. And so we convene everybody in the department. We convene every aspect of higher education, the registrar, the financial aid officer.

[00:18:12] So I asked, who convenes the students? And no one was convening the students. I was like, okay, that's going to change. So I started convening the students to get the students' voice in the policymaking. And so I really am proud of that because I think the student voice was missing. But what we really do is around policy and executing the governor's vision for higher education. So building the relationships with the presidents of the institutions. That's who I also convene. So the students and then separately convene the presidents.

[00:18:40] And then I also invited the top five public institutions, private institutions, their presidents, because they're educating our students. So Regis and Colorado College and Colorado Christian University and DU and then Naropa. Because Naropa was the fifth. Older. Yeah. I did the five with the highest student enrollment. I see. And Naropa actually was up there.

[00:19:06] Is there something in your time in that role that you feel like that maybe you're most proud of? Oh, absolutely. I think with the help of the team, of course, at the department, again, when we go to the things that's been like the through line of my life, right? Opportunity, access, those kinds of things.

[00:19:27] So we passed the bill, of course, with the governor's approval, to give essentially a full ride to any student who was in the foster care system from age 13 and up. Nice. And it was well received. And we have a lot of students who are doing that. But those are students, I'll get emotional when I think about it, because those are students who have potential. Right. They have that stored greatness. But they didn't have opportunity to access that or to activate that potential. So we gave them that. And they're doing exceptionally well.

[00:19:55] The next year, we decided, let's do that for students who are experiencing homelessness. So for high school kids who are experiencing homelessness, they also can go to college for free. Tuition, fees, room and board, and hopefully also a laptop. And so we did that for those two sets of students that, for me, I'm really, really proud of that. That's amazing.

[00:20:17] And when you think about higher ed and certainly so many things coming on and changing, you think about AI entering in and such. I'm wondering, when you think about that sector, what excites you about the future, about maybe how students can activate their potential? Yes, absolutely.

[00:20:35] I think for quite a time, students have maybe felt like if they choose community college or trade school or, you know, that there was something less than. And I'm really excited that we've changed that perception, that any path to success is a good path as long as you take it and you complete that path.

[00:20:58] So I really like that because now we're really expanding opportunity and we're really combining things like career education in our standard education so that everything is heading toward what's the value of this credential. We started long ago. We started with accessibility, who gets to go to college. Then it was affordability. How do you pay for it? Then it was attainment, who actually completes because we had a lot of people going but not everybody was completing, right?

[00:21:26] And now the focus is really on value and on that career-driven value. So what is this going to look like in the marketplace? I think that's a good place to go. We've got to be careful because we still have accessibility issues. We still have a whole lot of affordability issues. And we still have a lot of attainment issues. So we've got to bring everything along and make it holistic and make sure that everyone succeeds. Oh, I completely agree.

[00:21:52] And I want to ask you to reflect on the choice to do this civic leadership path that you have done in different stints. Because I think that sometimes people don't think that they can or don't know how to. I mean, you said to yourself, you're like, I didn't know how to get in a ballot. Right, right. Yes. So if someone is considering that they want to make a difference in their leadership through that type of channel, what advice do you give them?

[00:22:22] How do you tell them to start? Yeah, it's a great question. I think the first part of that is most of the things that I did, it's because someone saw potential. Right. And they encouraged me to do it. And I said yes. And so I tell young people to say yes to opportunity, whatever the opportunity is, as long as it's moving in a direction, a healthy direction. But I also talk about four things. I talk about their passion, purpose, values, and skills.

[00:22:51] And if you move in the direction of those things, and purpose is sometimes hard for people to get, especially when they're young. But what excites you? What are you passionate about? There are some leader gurus who say, don't follow your passion, just do what's practical. Look, we're going to be working for, what, 40 to 45 years, 40 hours a day. Right. Do something that you're excited about, that you're passionate about. And then something that fulfills your purpose. And I heard it said that purpose is not what you do.

[00:23:19] It's what happens to people around you when you do what you do. I love that definition of that. So passion, purpose, values. There are some things that you do that might question your values or might challenge it or might ask you to compromise them. If that happens, then I say you've got to get out of there. Right. Because don't compromise your values. And then skills, skills that you have and skills that you want to build. So first, be moving in that direction. It's much easier to steer a moving vehicle than one that's stationary. So be moving.

[00:23:47] And then as you're moving, seek out people. I always have a mentor. I've had a mentor since I was 13. I have a mentor even today. And because mentors have already gone where you might want to go so they can give you some advice. So always seek out advice and then lean into what you think might be your potential. Well, and I can't not ask you this question because I'm like, oh, she can mentor me right now. And there's a lot of people listening, I'm sure, that would be wondering this too.

[00:24:16] But you talk about opportunity and you say yes to opportunity. And you can't do it all. All of us have a finite amount of energy to do it. And so can you reflect on how do you make the choice about what you say yes and what you say no to for what gets your focus and time, Angie? I'm asking for a friend. It could be me, but asking for a friend. Yes.

[00:24:41] That's a tough question for me because I'm naturally a high energy person. So I naturally want to do almost anything that somebody asks me to do. And so I may not be the best person to ask for that, but I will say that I do run it through those four things. Does it match my purpose? And this one did because we're talking about leadership and we're talking about the idea. You talked about place and how place can impact that, which I do want to come back to.

[00:25:11] But so I think if it, first of all, of course, if it violates any of those four things, I definitely would say no to. But if I think that what I have to do or say will benefit someone else, then I try to say yes. You know, we have such limited time. My mom passed a year ago and I was her caregiver for her last four and a half years after she had had a stroke. And so life has become a little more precious. I get emotional on that.

[00:25:40] And we just never know. I just learned today that, you know, a friend of a friend, her dad just fell while he was washing his car and he fell in the wrong way. And, you know, he lost his life from just hitting his head the wrong way. So we just never know. Right. So for me, it's not just carpe diem, but it's really, truly like do what you're here to do. What's your purpose? And fulfill your purpose. And I think that makes you inspired and fulfilled.

[00:26:09] Well, you alluded to this. Yeah. To come back to this power of place and how place shapes you. What else did you want to say about that? You know, because I love the I love that notion of how place does impact you that way. But for me as well, it was not just about place. It was for me, it was also about the space between the races because I grew up biracial. And growing up in that way was, I think, a tougher avenue, if you will.

[00:26:36] So it wasn't so much the place because I had access to different places, which was a gift. I mean, going from the South Bronx to Stanford, who does that? Actually, Sigourney Weaver did that. But anyway, so but it was that space in between the races about identity. It was hard for me initially to really stake out my identity. People asked me to be one or the other and things like that. And I really felt like I mean, I'm a woman of color. That's the family I grew up with.

[00:27:06] That's the culture that I know. But some people get fooled by being as fair as I am. So anyway, so navigating that was was I think gave me some leadership skills as well. Did you have how did you do that? Did you have a mentor? Did you have some folks that helped you to figure that out? Or was that kind of on your own? It was a bit on my own. I mean, I was grounded in my mom's, you know, my mom's side of the family. Of course, I was grounded. I knew who I was.

[00:27:35] But they were also. So, for instance, in high school, I love my high school friends, but I can get I don't have dates. I think I'd ask to the prom and then get invited to sleepovers and things like that. And so when I went off to Stanford, which was kind of a white whitest school, I didn't want to have that rejection. And so when people would ask me what I was, I would say, well, my dad is Italian, Pachoni, although that's my stepdad. I don't have an ounce of Italian.

[00:28:01] I'd say my dad is Italian and my mom's family comes from Curacao because it was close enough to Trinidad and where they came from. But nobody knows what people of Curacao look like. And I had learned at 17, 18, that it was more acceptable to be half exotic than it was to be half black. Remember, this was 19, you know, this was now in the late 70s. But I was born at a time, my mom and grandmother and all my family on that side instilled in me a passion for education,

[00:28:30] but also this belief that I could do and be anything I wanted to. But I was born before the civil rights movement, before the voting rights movement, before the women's rights movement, before it was legal in this country for my mom and my birth father to be married in all 50 states. And yet they instilled in me this idea that I could be anything I wanted to. And so I did. Wow. Yeah. You have an amazing story. Oh, wow. Just amazing story. Before we move to wrap here, I wanted to ask you just a couple other questions.

[00:28:59] And you know that we have our Betcher Scholars. Oh, yes. And what a great group of students here in Colorado. And you are one. I am. Yes. And, you know, I know that many of them listen to this because they want to hear from leaders like you. And I always want to ask, like, what's your biggest advice? Wow.

[00:29:24] You know, I think the biggest advice that I can give, and it's so hard for young people because they don't know yet. But, and again, I do get emotional sometimes over these things because they matter to me so much. But I think being who you are and leaning into who you are, your skills, your talents, your potential, you know, those four things I mentioned. I think leaning into that and being comfortable in your own skin.

[00:29:51] The other thing is, and I talk about this a little bit, there's a lot of anxiety right now in the world, almost an epidemic. In fact, one of my friends said they should just put anti-anxiety medicine in the water like they do fluoride. I was like, oh, Lord. But because there's so many people that have it. But anxiety, I love words, the root, the origin of anxiety is of two minds.

[00:30:17] And that's what happens to our kids now is four or five minds because you're looking at social media and you're watching this and you're looking at, and so there's so many distractions. And I call that the static. You might still be a little bit young to remember that when you used to drive and there was a radio and you had to turn the dial and there was in between the stations was static. Like the static. Well, what's happening now is we live in the static, not at the station.

[00:30:43] So my advice is to tune in to the station, not the static. And when you feel like you're in the static and there's a lot of anxiety and stuff, get your focus. Because your focus then eliminates all the options and all the other stuff. So laser into focus. Some people do it by prayer. Some people do it by meditation. Some people do it through yoga or through running. Find the thing that works for you so that you can limit your focus and guard your focus.

[00:31:14] And so tune into the station, not the static. That's phenomenal advice. And I'm taking that home because it is. There's just so much going on. There's so much going on. You can just be overwhelmed. Overwhelmed and just totally have an anxiety attack. For sure. So get focused. Find the thing that helps you focus. Some people do it by music. Great. Whatever it is. I don't care what it is. Find the thing that works for you. That's great. I love that. Well, final question.

[00:31:43] We'll move to the lightning round. Another opportunity to quote you to you. Oh. Which is your personal credo is, I am as committed to your success as I am to my own. Yes. How does that statement influence your approach to leadership? Very much every day. And it has no expiration date. So if you were in my class as a high school student. Heck, I have a high school student coming out. I mean, he was a high school student coming out to my house this weekend. He's kind of become like a handyman for me. He played basketball for me.

[00:32:12] And he's now 51 or 52 years old. So I just was in contact with a former student who told me he's 54. I was like, how could you be 54 when I'm 39? Yeah, right. Anyway, so once you're in my circle of influence or whatever, if you've been on my team, in my class, I've taught you, whatever it is, you're always part of my team. And I'm always committed to your success. And there are many ways to operationalize that. I think one of the things that I did, and I advise leaders to do this, so you can copy

[00:32:42] this, but when I became the head of the Department of Higher Ed, I asked everyone to give me a four by six photo of their significant family. Some people, it was them and their dog. And others, it was their family, extended family even. And I had all those pictures on their windowsill. Because while I work for the governor and I work for the state, I also work for the folks who work for the department. And it's important for me that they're not chewed up and spit out, but that I know their families and I can talk to them about that.

[00:33:11] And I want them to be able to go home with actually more energy and less stress than when they start. And so that's important to me. And they know. I ask them about their future ambition. And I try to lean into that and help them get that next step. And so I'm totally committed to the success of the people I work with. I love that. That's a great, great story. Well, we have made it to the lightning round. And so four very quick questions for you as we wrap in today, Angie.

[00:33:41] So first is, what is your favorite Colorado hobby? Yes. So hobby. I don't have a lot of time for hobbies, but the thing that I really like to do is in the fall is to go take that drive through the mountains and see the turning of the colors that there's no other place like it. Maybe in the Northeast a little bit. You know, I lived on the East Coast, but there's something special about doing it here in Colorado and seeing them. Aspen. Magnificent mountains. Yes. That's great. Okay. So favorite place in Colorado or a Colorado landmark? Yeah.

[00:34:10] For me, I would have to say Red Rocks and Amphitheater. I really like, I live very close to it, so I go to concerts there and it's stunning. Yeah. It's a special place for sure. Okay. What action hero do you most identify with? So this is a tough one for me because it's not a genre that I watch, but I grew up with my uncles watching Bruce Lee. So I love Bruce Lee and I love his philosophies that went along. But I also have to mention Sigourney Weaver because she grew up in New York and went to

[00:34:38] Stanford and she's kind of an action hero too. For sure. I'm glad to know that about that fact. She's wonderful. Okay. And then finally, what are you currently binging? Is there a show or a book or a podcast that you're enjoying right now? Yeah. So one of the podcasts, I think it's called The CEO. I can't remember the rest of it, but you know who I'm talking about? It's The CEO podcast. He's fantastic. And he interviews a wide variety of people. So I really love that podcast.

[00:35:07] So I listen to that a lot. But then the other thing is I love tennis. I never played tennis, but I love to watch tennis. And right now the advent of Carlos Alcarez and Yannick Sinner and how they're really elevating the sport, I really love that. I'm sorry that Alcarez is injured and he's going to miss the French Open and Wimbledon, but Sinner is amazing. And so I watch a lot of tennis. So I'd say I'm binging tennis. Yes. Uh-huh. Very good.

[00:35:37] Well, thank you for your time today and the opportunity, again, to be mentored and learn from you. You're just such an incredible leader. And thank you for your impact on our state and all these different ways. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to talk with you about this. I look forward to reading your book. And this is great work because I think so many people will tune in and they may get a tidbit from each person. And if they can put that together, they will be the leader that they were meant to be. Thank you. And I hope I can be. Oh, you are. Thank you.

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