🏳️‍🌈 Pride Special episode with Daizsha

[00:00:17] Hi and welcome back to the Besos Jules podcast. My name is Jules. I am your host. I'm so excited to be here. This podcast is always about decolonizing mental health and wellness. But today we have a very special episode in celebration of Pride Month. It is June and I've got a very special guest with me today that I will introduce now. Hi, my love. This is Deja. She goes by Deja Vu.

[00:00:44] Hi. We've been together for three and a half years. She is a skateboarder. She is a trumpet player, a vocal, a jazz vocalist. She studies jazz voice. She's studying human development. What doesn't she do? Lover of animals, skates with the dog and she does everything. Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit more? Hi, I'm Deja. Jules gave you the gist, but we'll get into it more.

[00:01:13] Well, first and foremost, happy Pride Month, babe. Happy Pride Month. There's so much to talk about today and I want to make sure that we cover everything. And I think something really relevant that happened to us both recently is our trip to Brazil. We went and celebrated Carnival in Brazil in February over my birthday. It was both of our first times to Brazil, both of our first Carnival, her first time out of the country.

[00:01:41] I guess just to start the conversation off, I'm curious. What was just one of your takeaways from the trip? Oh, I had so many beautiful takeaways from our trip. Though I think a good question. I asked my friend, Alec, who went to Korea recently, what was something that really surprised you? And there was plenty of things that surprised me.

[00:02:08] First and foremost, when we first got there, like I was terrified. This is the first time out of the country for me. I didn't know what to expect. It's a long ways from home.

[00:02:18] But when we got there, the first thing that really surprised me was how home it felt. Like just this is earth. This is people. This is still home. And that was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful feeling, even though it's in a completely different culture across the world that I haven't seen.

[00:02:38] Like it still felt like, you know, good. Yeah. And then the second thing I think that really surprised me was just in total was the pride and color of the collective. They are so bright and proud to be Brazilian and proud to be in their culture and their community and to celebrate it.

[00:03:05] And it was really a beautiful experience to see them at the max, like cultivation of their Brazilian spirit. Like carnival is they're celebrating life. They're celebrating community. They're celebrating their ancestors. There's they're they've worked all year to put on this beautiful celebration.

[00:03:24] And I think that was one of the most moving parts is like just how they work together as a collective to express identity and how proud they are to to be themselves. I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think we should just give the listeners a little bit of context in terms of how carnival really is this massive celebration.

[00:03:51] I mean, if you're working at like a government building, like you get the whole week off like these people party like nobody parties. Blockos are like these like block parties, I guess, that happen and they can just shut off all sorts of streets like Anita did a blocko, but there was like two million people. And I think, you know, Shakira, I don't know if we could really still call that a blocko, but like now they're doing these free concerts. But that's kind of happening everywhere. But then within the favelas, you also have maybe just like three or four blocks that are cut off.

[00:04:18] And it's all about the music. It's all about the dancing like that is so much of the culture. I mean, even when we got off the plane, there were like samba costumes on mannequins before we hit customs, you know. So we dropped in and were immediately greeted by these beautiful mountains and the costumes and hearing Portuguese. And so you and I went with Luciana, my teacher, Brazilian woman who I've had the pleasure of training with for probably 10 years now.

[00:04:47] That's an I feel like I'm getting older when I can say that relationships are like 10, 15 years. That's crazy. But so we went with her and we stayed in an Airbnb in Copacabana in Rio with like what? There was eight of us women total. Yeah, but they weren't. Most of them were there, but some of them stayed somewhere else. Yeah, true. But we were a group. We were thick. And that was cool. There were people from all over. We had people from New York, Chicago, another chick from Colorado, from Russia, from Portugal.

[00:05:17] And so like even within the house, there were so many different languages and cultural backgrounds and like skill sets. And so I loved just in terms of like I've never lived with that many women for a week straight. It was so fun because you woke up and like somebody had done some laundry and then like I was eager to cook. But then somebody else is way better at like doing dishes. So they'd rather do that. Like the way that we were all helping each other, I think, was so cool and so fun. And I know that Brazil was so special. And I know that a lot of my experience was special because of those women.

[00:05:47] So that was really cool. And having Luciana's insights as a native Brazilian woman, like it was beautiful to see the country through her eyes. And she's just so fun to be around. She just makes you smile. She's a firecracker. But living in that house, that's like another theme connecting back to the collectivism that I think really impacted.

[00:06:10] Like out of everything from that trip, I think the collectivism of their society really impacted me. And we'll talk about that like a collectivist society. You know, they share their identity in we. And here in the U.S., it's more so that our identity is individualistic. It's I. And oh, man, that's so isolating.

[00:06:36] And that's put so much pressure on yourself or in my experience to like you have to be so good at X, Y and Z. And you have all these rules and regulations. Their confidence comes from them as a people together. They're proud to be together. And they're proud of who they are individually because they're proud of where they come from. And the people that they come from and the society that they come from and their culture.

[00:07:03] And I think that was like riveting in my experience. Yeah. And helped me see confidence in a new way. Yeah. And the Afrocentrism of it all. I mean, here is clearly even our map is like Eurocentric, right? Everything is Eurocentric. Everything is when we think about success in this country, not to jump to white supremacy real quick where we're like five minutes into the podcast.

[00:07:27] But you know what we do here, like the peak of success here is to be isolated, is to be away from community. It's gated, gated communities, like the irony in that itself. Right. To be alone, to be protected from other people, to have other people, you know, you're outsourcing labor. Other people are doing all that so that you can essentially be alone and be on top.

[00:07:49] And I think maybe as a society we're all doing or most of us are doing well enough that we can touch part of that and realize, hey, maybe this isn't the dream that we're being sold after all. Like maybe this isn't what we're after. And so I think to that point of collectivism, like it is inexplicable, the joy and the vibration and the feeling of Carnival, especially where we were on Sapukai.

[00:08:17] So there's this, it's called the Samba Dromo. And there's nothing like it in the United States. So I want you to just picture maybe like three to five numbers are not my thing. So I'm not totally sure here, but maybe three to five football stadium lengths. And it's like a big white runway in between. And on one side, you've got these beautiful mountains and rolling hills and jungle and greenery.

[00:08:42] And on either side of the runway, there's stadium seating and little bars, just like how we have it, like basketball games or football games, like little suites. Right. And people can attend all these different parties. And all of the floats and dancers pass through this pasarela, this runway, and they do their choreography. So Samba schools, just a little bit of history, came from black people in Brazil being disenfranchised and being pushed to the margins.

[00:09:12] That's where favelas came from. They were ran out of the city and forced to build housing up in the hills. And the same thing for Samba schools. Black people were being targeted and they needed a place that was safe. And so Samba schools kind of came about as a way to safely practice their dance and ritual and also stay off the streets the same way that rec centers are really valuable to our communities here. And they truly, I think what amazed me is that they truly have a job for everyone. If you're a dancer, you can train that. If you're a musician, you can train that.

[00:09:42] If you want to be involved, but you have a truck, you become the driver. Or maybe if you want to help paint the walls and keep, you know, do the maintenance of the Samba school because they're massive. They're like big warehouses. Everything is just like poured concrete and piping. And they make that space a home. And it's just full of artistry, but also engineering. I mean, the floats have like pyrotechnics and moving pieces and machinery. They're working on this all year. All year.

[00:10:10] And they have this one song. It's called Samba and Hedu. And this means Samba like with a theme. And so each, every Carnaval has a theme and every school has a theme. And the themes are very political. I mean, two years ago, one of the winning schools was they saying, my God, my God, is slavery really over? And so these are not just like sexy. I think it's really easy to see the sexy bikinis and thongs and feathers and everything. But like this is deeply political.

[00:10:39] Whereas I feel like in the U.S. there's kind of this segmentation. Like you can be an activist and you can be really smart and you can be political. Or you get kind of like bimbified. You're sexy and that's it. And it's just surface level. And so I loved seeing the integration there. Like we watched that movie, the cartoon movie Rio, before. Oh, yeah. And before we went, we were getting into it.

[00:11:02] Fun fact, your dopamine levels rise if you have booked your flights already two weeks before your travel in anticipation. So from like a standpoint of how good travel is for the brain, like it's not even just that trip. It's like the anticipation beforehand. I learned that afterward and I had to share. But so we were watching this movie and there's a part where the scientist is driving in the passenger seat. And then the native Brazilian scientist is in the driver's seat.

[00:11:30] And there's a sexy samba lady in costume. She's walking across the street in Copacabana. And the driver goes, oh, that's my dentist. And she's like, oh, ciao. And like says hi. And it was such a like such a true illustrative example of like there you don't have to segment yourself as a woman. I feel like you can be very sexy and also taken seriously. Yeah. And that's something we can talk about, too.

[00:11:57] Like just body confidence and feeling good about expressing your body, not so sexualized. Also, something that I really, really enjoyed there was physical appearance of gender norms. Like the men are wearing glitter and tutus and everybody dances. Everybody's having a good time. Women are strong and powerful and respected.

[00:12:23] And I'm sure they have issues still with like, you know, the involvement of women's rights and such. Though there I felt like we were very safe and we were really respected as like a queer couple, which was really, really, really refreshing. And beautiful. Yeah. The biggest pride festival of the world takes place in São Paulo. And so that is the like, let's say, New York equivalent.

[00:12:51] But it's more inland in Brazil, whereas Rio is right on the coast. And so you have the beach. But yes, let's talk more about that. I think that the gender expression there was really cool for me to see as a hyper femme lesbian and for you to see as a I don't know how you self-describe. Free spirit, man. I enjoy just expression day to day.

[00:13:18] And I love playing with the balance of masculinity and femininity. I love being a woman. And I love playing with all the expressions that comes with being a woman. And you've had to work in male-dominated fields. So, yeah, definitely. And that's been a journey in itself that I can talk on for an hour. For sure.

[00:13:42] But I guess from a gender standpoint of like people usually assign things like skateboarding to men. And so I think you find yourself often in these spaces where you walk the line. And that can be really challenging for other people to understand. Whereas over there, it felt like a lot of people were like hopscotching over that line all day in their expression. Like the women there were very fit. They're very strong.

[00:14:07] It's not like skinny culture here where you're trying to be like double zero and that's like power, right? Like the white culture would say like you can never be rich enough. You can never be skinny enough, right? But that's like not really the vibe over there that we were getting. So the women are – there's lots of BBLs. That's where it came from, right? Like big booty, big implants. Beautiful people there. Beautiful people. There was no more fun place to people watch.

[00:14:34] And I love that they can just exist in their beauty and know that they're beautiful. And like that's super cool. Yeah. Everybody is confident there because they just feel – I don't know. Like they belong. And I feel like here, like we're talking about more on the individualistic thing. Like we're taught to like compete against each other. And if somebody is doing better than you, then that's your enemy.

[00:15:03] But if somebody is beautiful in Brazil, you're hyping them up. If somebody is doing well, like dancing, like you're a team. Like there's – it's beautiful to see that sort of expression. Yeah. Certainly a paradigm shift. And to your point of feeling comfortable over there as a queer person and as a couple, there was not a moment or a space in which we were like holding hands or even kissing where I felt like scared.

[00:15:34] Whereas I feel that all the time here. We were literally on – we hopped on the flight to Rio back to Denver. Oh, my God. I forgot. Oh, my God. We got hate crimes, y'all. We got fucking hate crimes, you guys. We got hate crimes. We got hate crimes. So we're doing our connecting flight to Texas before we went home back to Denver. And we'll be doing that again. I don't think we'll be stopping in Texas again. But there was a man who was boarding from Rio. I don't know why he was there. Maybe a connecting flight.

[00:16:03] To get laid, which didn't happen. So we had all this pent-up anger. So he was being – so he came up. We were sitting in our seats. And he came up and he was like, you're in my seat, da-da-da-da. Turns out he's reading his own ticket wrong. It's the same letter but way different number. But didn't he say the other thing first? Oh, he is like – He bent over in our faces. You know, on an international plane, there's like a row of two on the side of the plane and then a row of three in the middle and then a row of two on the side. So it's like just us two.

[00:16:32] And the moment before, because I'm already like aware of the potential homophobia, I literally took my hat to cover the gap for the couple behind us so that I could give her a kiss and offer us some privacy. But I guess he got the front view. So now we have to like take both of our hats off, I guess. And he bends over with the most contemptuous, scary face and goes, lesbians.

[00:17:02] And we were so shocked. And then he's all trying to tell us that we're like, of course, we're in the wrong seat and da-da-da-da-da. But – But he fucked with the wrong girl in cheetah print head-to-toe that day because I popped up so fucking fast. Yes. Jules immediately is like – But I couldn't really say anything. And so Deja was the brains. Wait. I was the body. Jules was like making him like back up. She's like back up. What the fuck?

[00:17:29] I definitely had my finger in his face like back up. Like the flight attendant will help you. He kept being like, oh, but my stuff, my stuff. I said you're not sitting here. A flight attendant will help you like get back. And that's like really gives insight into our personalities because I like first – at first – she's a reactor. I'm like I have to sit for a second. I'm like what the fuck just happened? I'm like sitting there. She's yelling at him. And then she just stops. Like she can't get any more words out.

[00:17:58] And so I'm like, okay, it's my cue. Like it's my turn. Like I got to take this on. So I stand up and I'm like it is never okay to lead with hate. And he said, hey, what? Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I was like you can apologize now. And he did. Yeah. And then Jules sent him over to the flight attendant. Well, then the flight attendant was like what's going on here? And I was like he just hate crime dust. And she was like what happened? And he keeps trying to sit down in his seat. He's like this is my seat.

[00:18:26] This is my – I'm like back the – she's like back the fuck up. He had these red pointy nails on. Back the fuck up. All up in his face. Yeah. No. And I don't even think I caught – well, no, I probably did. And she was like what happened? And I said he just called us lesbian. She literally like her face fell into her hand like God now she has to deal with this. So retrospectively, one, shout out to you for being the monk that you are and the calm to my fire.

[00:18:54] I think we do a great job as a duality. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God I had taken like a fat edible before because that was terrible. And so I should have had it removed from the plane. And they asked us like we can't take off unless you give it the okay. They moved him to the other side of the plane. And so I didn't really – And they felt really pressuring to like just say yes. The answer was yeah. It was like crazy.

[00:19:19] I mean like from a nervous system standpoint, boarding a plane is already so scary. Like you're getting – when it's 10 hours. It's a 10-hour flight. You're like oh shit. I'm going to be trapped in this for the next extended period of time. So I already have some anxiety over that. But then now like being literally attacked. And so yeah, we just kind of – I should have pushed. Now I know. If that ever happens again, we immediately have a plan.

[00:19:47] And that was something that we talked about later of like okay, what are we going to do the next time that happens? Because it wasn't the first time. It was the first time when we were like trapped. Yeah. And it really rocked you for a while. Oh my God, you guys. I was vomiting the entire flight. I was sitting there like a – I couldn't stop shaking. Yeah. Yeah. It was really, really fucked up. But what a juxtaposition to like what we're experiencing in Rio. Like we feel free. We feel sexy. We feel confident. We feel liberated.

[00:20:16] We feel queer and proud. And then we get on the plane. And some white dude from Texas like – Yeah. It was very eye-opening just to see. And it was very – a bold transition between countries. Yeah.

[00:20:35] And I don't – I think because I'm newer to understanding this part of myself in the queer community that I'm not up on how often who gets hate-crimed, right? But like I do feel like there's something about the way that you and I present. Like we both looked very femme that day.

[00:20:55] And I think that is starting to drive – I feel like that's even harder for certain men to handle of like, oh, I want to fuck you and I really can't. Like because you absolutely want nothing to do with me. It's either that or it's completely sexualized and like fetishized. Yeah. And not taking like seriously, which has always been the most like thing that pisses me off.

[00:21:19] It's like not being respected in our relationship as a woman who dates a woman. Yeah. Because people will like flirt with one of us or the other when we're like literally on a date or something. Or together or at an event where it's very clear that – And yeah, that's been something that's been hard for me in my journey of like – I mean, I've had – I mean, everybody has their hardships with like their queer journey.

[00:21:43] And being out since I was young, like I always had this comparison to men and like feeling good enough to be with a woman as a woman. And so like those experiences always like hit me pretty hard like not being respected. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that's something that I have as a privilege of like I don't really have that –

[00:22:09] The queerness like now because I had dated men before now, Queerness feels like this breaking out of a paradigm of like, oh sweet. Like we have the most fun together. It feels like every night is like a little slumber party and girls night and it just never ends. Like we have the best time together. So I didn't grow up with that sort of internalized different messages. I think mine was like a shift when my brain was like more developed and my sense of self was more developed.

[00:22:39] And I do feel like that's a very unique privilege. Yeah. And I also think that, you know, I had the privilege of going to – we both – we met at DSA at Denver School of the Arts. Well, we didn't meet there but we both went there. And that's a K through high school art school for people who don't know. There we go. Yes. Not K. Oh my gosh. Thanks. You saw art school. And so, yeah, Jules was studying theater. I was studying music. We didn't know each other then but we had a lot of mutual friends.

[00:23:08] But besides the point, being in an art school, I went for all seven years. Jules, I think, went for two. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I felt like that really shaped my experience and my ability to know that I was gay. Mm-hmm. And I think I had some representation that – in media that I found that helped me discover that.

[00:23:34] Though I don't think that was true for you because things were shifting so much in our world for, you know, the LGBTQ plus community. Mm-hmm. And there wasn't a ton of really feminine women who liked other feminine women and were labeled lesbian. Yeah, I was – you know, I work with that sculptor, Charlotte, and I call her my, like, lesbian fairy godmother or grandmother because she's in her 70s and she sculpted me.

[00:24:04] So we've spent quite a lot of time together in the studio, right? And I came over the other day and she was like, yeah, they didn't make lesbians like you back in my day. And that was so – like, she's right, you know? Yeah. And I think had I known that that was an option – And also your upbringing, like, you have two older sisters and a mom and – And Mormon. And they're Mormon. Or they were.

[00:24:28] And there was a lot of gender roles that you learned when growing up and a lot of expectations that you really wanted to, you know, follow and do the right thing and what you thought in your mind was. And I don't think that allowed for a lot of ability to, you know, really check in with yourself.

[00:24:54] That and in the dance world too. Oh, yeah. Like, girls were mean. And so how could you figure out you liked girls when girls were always mean to you? Yeah, girls were super mean. And I was switching schools all the time. And so it was really hard to make friends. And I think dating men became a very wise survival skill. You just needed that guard to protect you. And it was a transaction because they got the hot new girl, right? So, I mean, it worked for all parties for the time being.

[00:25:23] But it certainly blunted me in terms of discovering that part of myself. But I really do think it's back to representation because, like, my best friend growing up, she had lesbian moms. Like, there was, you know, gay people all around me. But they didn't look like me. They had, like, short hair. They didn't do their nails. And I got this glam, fabulous, bedazzled, pink-loving woman. But had they let Sharpay Evans actually be gay? Or Regina George?

[00:25:54] Then maybe. The signs were always there, right? Yeah. So, yeah, I think Brazil was really cool on representation for us, for, like, queer couples. And seeing what a community who really embraces queerness can look like. I mean, let's be clear. The people who are making and really are change makers in the art scene, whether it's samba or carnival or Los Angeles, Chicago, are queer people, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:22] And shout out for the representation that I did get, thanks to Tumblr. And Emily from Pretty Little Liars. That storyline really got me, for real. Yeah. Let's take a brief pause real quick. Okay. Okay. So, we went on Instagram, and I put out a little poll to see your guys' hot and burning questions for us on this Pride Month.

[00:26:48] So, the first one we would like to address reads like this. How early did you guys move in together, and is that myth actually true? I think this person is referring to the lesbian U-Haul myth. Deja, would you like to take a moment and explain to the listeners what that is? That is the stereotype that in lesbian relationships move extremely fast, and they move in after like a week. Hence, U-Haul.

[00:27:18] You're taking all your stuff to move in. And the answer is, yeah, that happens. Because I think because of the emotional intimacy that women, you know, connect on very early and very quickly about in relationships. For us, we know basic bitches. Yay. We are the top statistic babies. Yeah. I know you didn't think we were like every other couple.

[00:27:49] Be for real. Be for real. Yeah. No. I think also we're both, like, I don't know if it's because we both have, like, Latinidad in our backgrounds or what, but we're both very connected to our families. And with that comes certain familial obligations and responsibilities. And so I think we both had unique situations there that we needed to respect. And moving in together was not going to work. That would have been a very selfish decision. So after three years. We did it.

[00:28:19] We greatly beat the stereotype. We did. Uh-huh. Yeah. And. Go ahead. We also did preemptive couples counseling. Yeah. That's an important thing. Yeah. We rocked couples counseling for a year. And this is the why. You know, I was in school for marriage and family therapy. And I thought, what a freaking hypocrite. I'm taking these classes to be a couples therapist. And I've never done it myself.

[00:28:48] How can I sit across from a couple and encourage them to exercise max vulnerability when I've never jumped off that cliff myself? Yeah. And really divin' in, dove in? Yeah. And it's not that, like, usually couples go to couples therapy as a last resort when they're fighting law when they can't freaking figure it out. But for us, like, we've never had a really intense fight or yelled at each other.

[00:29:15] Like, it was truly, like, what are the things that we need to know about each other and learn about each other so that we can further learn how to love and care for one another in the best, like, way. And so we have the best quality of life with one another.

[00:29:34] And because we grew up in such different backgrounds, like, extremely different and our worldviews are extremely different, our perspective and the way we think about things, we've had to spend a lot of time, like, really learning each other and learning how each other thinks and reacts. And why. And what emotional things have caused us to react in these ways.

[00:30:01] And I think that is what couples therapy really helped us about is, like, where do we have these differences and what's the third perspective from the outside that can help us, like, understand one another and hold each other? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And we did it for free. There's options out there if you have – I always mix it up. I don't know which one is for the older community, Medicaid or Medicare. I have the one that's not for them. There we go. Bingo.

[00:30:30] And so because I had that, we went to DU and they had free services for us. And so that was incredible. Yeah. And even if you don't have Medicaid, like, it's, like, $5 to $15 a session for these practicing therapists. Yeah. So it really is, like, a beautiful – And we stipulated. We said we want a queer person of color, a woman of color. And we got her. And we got her. And she was – She was great. Awesome. She was awesome. Yeah. Don't get us wrong.

[00:30:58] It was really freaking hard. There's some times where we walked out and we're crying. We couldn't figure it out for, like, a while. And we had to sit with those hard emotions. But ultimately, like, I am so, so grateful because all of those hard conversations and all of those hard moments that we had to sit in for so long allowed us the opportunity to understand all of that.

[00:31:25] And in the future, react differently or adjust our communication styles differently so that we're in attunement to one another. Yeah. And it was crazy because, like, I feel like we would show up as such a, like – we'd spend a lot of time, like, catching her up on what happened. Like, oh, we had this little tiff, but, like, we figured it out using these tools or whatever. Right? And in the last session, we were going to have a session. We were like, yeah, maybe we could do an art activity. And so –

[00:31:53] Yeah, we're supposed to be our graduating therapy session. Whatever. And we had a fucking blow up. But she told us the most truth out of – She gave us the cheat code. She was like, all right, here's what's happening. We have, like, a few minutes left. I'm going to tell you what is going on. You guys are both feeling anxiety, but yours is being stirred up by this and yours is being stirred up by this. And this happens often. Yeah.

[00:32:14] And because of those two anxieties that get stirred up by the same thing at different viewpoints, y'all got to figure that out. And we did. Yeah, we did. And we continue to. And we continue to. It's a lifelong journey. But we kind of did it through the lens of, like, premarital counseling, right? Like, what can we learn? And I really would recommend that to anyone in a relationship, to be honest. Like, it's so helpful to have a third party. And, like, your homies, your friends are a great third party sometimes. But it's not their responsibility. One.

[00:32:44] One. That part. One. And two, they're not a trained professional for seeing the ways that someone is triangulating or someone is trying to avoid. Right? And so. They don't have a fixed opinion. Yeah. Yeah. And so a couples therapist, their client is the relationship. It's not the individuals. And so whether that means that it's, you know, if the relationship is toxic and it is best to just end it, a couples therapist can help you with that, too. Right?

[00:33:13] Like, they are there to serve the relationship. And so this kind of takes us into our second question of how to handle disagreements. I think it's really important to always remember that you're on the same team. Like, why would we be fighting against each other? That makes no sense. We're going to be living with each other and, like, doing projects together. It's okay to feel like someone's feelings are her or, like, something, you know, to feel at odds.

[00:33:39] But I think the common theme is we always come back to being on the same team. And I think actually, like, people hear the word disagreements and they're like, oh, my God. But I think for us, disagreements is a beautiful thing. We have a lot of fun. Because we have so much fun. Because we are both people who really enjoy growing, really enjoy challenging our perspective and mind.

[00:34:03] And there's a lot of things that we don't necessarily agree totally on or see completely out of it. There's a lot of things that we do. Like, that's what it's – I think that's what makes our relationship so beautiful is that, like, at our core, we have morals that we share and values that we share, that we are in agreement on our passion and so much of that. But we have disagreements on small things. And I think that's beautiful. I love how fun it is to hear your perspective challenging mine.

[00:34:34] I love a Deja hot take. Yeah. And Jules is a very strong-minded, very strong opinionated woman. And so – and not a lot of people, you know, question her. Yeah. Or like – Or can challenge. But I love to do it. I'm like, let's go back and forth. But I love challenging her because who else is going to? Yeah. It's so hot. And it's fun. And you get to expand. And it's a beautiful thing. And so for disagreements with us, because we already have that as, like, an innate thing for us, that, one, makes it easier.

[00:35:04] And then, two, us working on understanding each other to an extreme depth through therapy and through our conversations and through time and through allowing each other to be heard when it's hard. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:49] And so, like, it's so cute and so self-aware to have someone.

[00:36:18] I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. I'm going to back up. And even though I'm being like – like a freaking jerk, my ability to just communicate that off the bat, like, makes it easier for her to take that in instead of me saying something cruel and her feeling bad. Yeah. And women, if you're in a relationship or anyone with a uterus, if you're in a relationship and your partner is not tuned in to where you are on that cycle, you're asking for an argument.

[00:36:46] Because there's an entire, like, week of your life where it's not going to be the time to talk about certain things. No, and you'll get sucked in. Yeah. And, yeah. It's just about timing. And we're still learning about that, right? Yeah. Because, like – Sometimes you just want to keep going at it until you fix it. But, like, you just got to step away sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the other questions that I, like, didn't have down here because we have time for three but was how to handle yourself when you're dysregulated.

[00:37:14] And I think you kind of answered it a little bit earlier but I would just say take time. Take time. Like, urgency is – can kill nuance, can kill intention. We're all just walking little amygdalas and nervous systems. And when we feel a threat, like, it's all encompassing. And emotions are right there, right?

[00:37:33] Like, we have this beautiful brain that's been designed to keep us safe but it doesn't really understand yet the difference of a threat of an animal chasing us and needing to run for our lives versus an email or, you know, an offhanded comment by our partner at the wrong time. Yeah. And just on, like, a science level, like, physiologically, when you're riled up, when you're not in a good mindset, your prefrontal cortex shuts off and you're not able to have rational thought and process things rationally. Yeah.

[00:38:03] Yeah. Yeah. Great point. I'm so glad you brought that up. The last thing I think about disagreements also comes down to compatibility. Like, when I met Deja, she was actively in a personal improvement class that was, like, really pushing her. It was cool. They had, like, all these different activities that really, like, pushed who you are and confidence and pushed expansion. And so I knew, oh, I'm meeting someone who's really interested in personal growth and expansion.

[00:38:32] I was also, like, just about to start grad school. And so I think we are always interested to learn. Like, you can make a choice. You can be in a disagreement and choose to let your ego, like, win or you can choose to be curious. And I think our way to be, like, hmm, or what do you mean by that or tell me more is really, really helpful. Yeah.

[00:38:57] Because often even when you assume someone is saying that if you ask them to explain it, then you're like, oh, well, that's not how I heard that. Yeah, yeah. That, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Communication can be so difficult just because of how complex it is for humans. Like, tone and word choice and upbringing and reactions and nervous system.

[00:39:21] Like, there's so many different, like, precipitating factors, even, like, what happened to you, what happened this morning that may have caused you to feel this way later. Or, um, so I think, like, overall, the most important thing is just having kindness, I think, and grace for your partner, too. Or whoever you're having a disagreement with, like, knowing that you love this person. And even though it's hard right now, like, you're going to figure it out. That's the one thing for me, like, because I get scared, like, for so long.

[00:39:51] I was scared, like, oh, my God, we had this small fight. Like, she hates me. She's, I'm going to, we're going to break up. But it's not. It's, like, I think once we had the agreement of, like, we're, listen, we're not feeling good right now. But we're always going to talk through things. And we're always going to get through things. And we're on the same team. And we're in this together. That's what really helped me. And, like, knowing what your partner needs as far as love language. Like, I really need those affirmations. Those really helped me. You need affirmations from time to time. Yeah.

[00:40:21] Um. And having the humility and the safety to ask for what you need, right? Like, it can be hard after an argument to get close to that person and to, like, open your physical body up for a hug. But sometimes that's, like, the best thing that you can fucking do. So if you can grit your teeth and get close to those people. Like, scientists will tell people who have arguments to, like, fall asleep with their fingers touching. Which sounds like the stupidest little shit ever.

[00:40:50] But, like, there's, on an oxytocin level, that is the highest hierarchical hormone. So your cortisol underneath that. Any of your cyclical hormones underneath that. But oxytocin, especially for women, is how we can downregulate. Yeah. And that's your touch. And, like, how do you get out of that energy, too? Like, for sometimes it was very hard for us to break out of the energy. But, like, just changing what you're doing. Go outside. Going outside. Smokeable. Smokeable. Go. Do some jumpy jacks. Play music. You have to change it. Something else.

[00:41:20] Yeah. Especially with ADHD. Because for us, we'll ruminate. And we'll linger. Hyper fixation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love you. I love you, too, babe. I'm proud of us. I'm proud of us, too. I think we've come a long way. And that's the other thing about our relationship. Is that we've grown so much individually. But also as a couple. And I just love that because of that foundation of always wanting to grow. I don't ever have a fear of, like, Oh, yeah, we just grew apart.

[00:41:48] Like, I don't think that would ever happen because we're so invested in supporting one another in each other's own endeavors wherever that leads us. And it's like two vines that just keep. Yeah. And sometimes it's not always 50-50. That's another thing with, like, disagreements and stuff and, like, supporting one each other. Like, it's going to fluctuate. Somebody, sometimes somebody's going to be 99-1%. Yeah. And you just got to figure out, like, for us, like, who needs the support more today?

[00:42:16] And it often balances itself out in the end, you know? I'm glad you're saying that because we used to even say, like, what percent are you at today? And someone would be like, I'm at 60. And then the person who's like, okay, well, I'm at, you know, 45. Oh, damn. I was, like, all in my head about how I didn't feel good today. But she's really not feeling good. So let me be an adult and give a little bit more. Yeah. You know, having that awareness and discussion about it.

[00:42:41] And I think that's beautiful about being women, too, is, like, there's so much less, like, gender norms and schemas that you have to follow to, like, support each other. Like, we help each other based on skill and based on, you know, lens of, like, what we need together. Okay, yes. Perfect segue because I'm pulling out our final question, which is, what was something you each had to deconstruct about yourselves or about society when you entered the relationship?

[00:43:11] I love this question. And go ahead because that's yours, right? Skill. Yeah. Yeah, I think skill-based labor rather than gender role assignment. So what does that mean? And in the house, oh, it's the dude's job to, like, take out the trash or, like, mow the lawn or whatever. There's two women. So how are we going to do it? I fucking hate doing dishes. Me, too. Yeah. That's one that's hard for us. That one's really hard.

[00:43:40] But at least we have a dishwasher. I'm really good at organizing. And Jules is really good at cooking. Making a mess. Cooking. Yeah. I'm really good at cooking, meal planning. She's really good at carrying stuff. I'm great at carrying stuff. I have, like, child hands. And I hate the feeling of, like, my hands being full. I ain't no two trip, bitch. I carry everything in one go. It's true. Anyway. Does it get heavy? Yes.

[00:44:11] But at least I get a good meal. No. Yeah. She's always good. I am not about cooking. Jules is a fantastic, fantastic flavor master. Flavor master. It's the vegan cuisine. Yeah. So there's that. You know, taking the trash down on my skateboard is way easier for me. She's very macro and I'm very micro.

[00:44:38] Like, if I look at a room and it's disorganized, I'll start, like, organizing the lip glosses by colors before the laundry is even picked up off the floor. Like, probably a little too granular. Like, I don't really think about those things. And I'm, like, thinking about the big picture. Move the shit out of the way. Move the shit. Put it in a pile. Categorize it. Whatever you got to do. Yeah. But, um... So that was big, I think, for us. Especially now, like, moving in. I think we're really honing in on, like, okay, maybe we need to start a little routine and

[00:45:08] a little, like, chore chart or something. Which is not good with... For me, the hard thing for me is planning and, like, stuff like that. Just because, like, my upbringing didn't support that. But Jules is a very big planner. My parents are both in medicine and science and Molly Mormon homemaking. There was, like, always a casserole or a pot roast on the stove to come back from church. And it was already set up. And then the so-and-sos are coming over. And it was, I mean, like, homemaking.

[00:45:37] My mom was born in the 50s and that was, like, really instilled in her. And my family is creative solution on the fly. Make it work. And much younger. And much younger. My mom had me at 16. So... And I have four younger sisters. So it was just a different setting and upbringing, class, everything. So, like, it's really cool to see the ways that we learn how to work together and based on our skills and such.

[00:46:03] Because we really are, like, a beautiful yin and yang duality. Like, we're, like, so similar. I say all the time we came from the same star that exploded. You know? Which is scientifically true. Yes. In astronomy, you know, like, every... All of the elements came from bursted stars that exist in our world now. Yeah. So... Yes. We definitely came from the same start.

[00:46:33] But we differ so much. We do. Yeah. I think for that... Back to the deconstruction thing. Just, like... I think it felt less like deconstruction and more like the freedom to create. Yes. It didn't feel like, oh, we had these expectations and then we tried them out and they weren't working. It was more like, hmm, we get to do whatever we want here. Like, even in the talks of, like, planning a wedding or something, we're like, what is it going to look like?

[00:47:00] Or, like, if we want to have a household somewhere else or if we want to do a project somewhere else, like, we really get to design our life however we want. Like, that... Yeah. Queer something is a verb. And it's, like, to create, to change, to trailblaze. And I think for both of our family lineages to be, like, gay women multicultural entrepreneurs is pretty rad. Smart. Yeah, smart. No kids, no mortgage.

[00:47:30] Yes. We are... Like, I think about that all the time, how beautiful of a gift it is to our generations of women before us to be this free, this in love, this, like, the ability to love each other in this way and to be free and be allowed to follow our dreams and have success even though it's threatened right now in our society. Like, there's no shit going to take that away from us.

[00:47:55] Our ancestors have worked so hard to bring us to this moment and I feel extremely grateful to cherish, like, this life that we have individually and together as queer women who are passionate and have a strong desire to push boundaries and limits and become our own version of success. I think that's really freaking sick, babe.

[00:48:25] And as far as, like, the construction goes, like, deconstruction, I like the word construction more, you know, because we have constructed such beautiful ways of opening up. I think the biggest thing for me in our relationship was, like, I am a more reserved, mysterious person and you are an extremely outward, open book.

[00:48:49] And for me, I guess I had to deconstruct my internal world for some degree because, like, I have, I've had such a hard time sharing who I am and feeling confident and expressing. But you always surprised me, always said something, like, that I was like, what the hell did you just say? I used to trip for so long thinking, like, what did this girl just say?

[00:49:18] What did she just say? So, yeah, I became more vulnerable, more open, and I think that's what I needed in this life. What I had to deconstruct is, like, my voice is important and I should be seen. And even though it was really, really scary to let you see me in full, like, I feel so safe and so calm and so appreciative

[00:49:41] that I allowed myself to be seen with you and that you led by example in showcasing vulnerability and confidence in just who you are. Thanks. That's so sweet. Yeah, I think you show me so much on a completely different vibration of what I've grown up with, what I thought the world was,

[00:50:04] like, the way that you take time and the way that you slow down and are so intentional about things has taught me so much. And in turn, it poured light on this part of me that I didn't know needed to be seen and cared for. And I think that's where we really connect. It's that, like, Venus and Capricorn that we both share that is, like, the place where the way that we love is very similar. And that comes together.

[00:50:33] And I think that's so beautiful. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think we're a good match. Yeah. You want to keep doing this? A podcast? Our life. Hmm. I'm going to need a ring soon. You heard it here. Well, I think that's a beautiful way to end. I'm curious if you could tell people celebrating Pride this month any way or advice or wish them a celebration.

[00:51:02] What do you wish them? I wish them ease, girl. Sit the fuck down. Lay in the sun. And we work too fucking hard to prove ourselves as queer people and that we belong and that we are people that deserve to be respected for our intelligence and our creativity. And so we work so hard in a system that wasn't made for us. And I say, sit the fuck down. Be proud of yourself.

[00:51:32] Enjoy life. And, like, take a moment for yourself to, like, be proud of that and to just exist without any expectations or, you know, such. That's beautiful. Beautiful. Happy Pride, everybody. Happy Pride! So grateful to be queer. Me too. We're queer and we're here. Queer and here. Love you, babe. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Can I get a Bezos into the front camera? Ready?

[00:52:01] One, two, three. Bezos! Bezos! This podcast is powered by the plug.