Ted Schultz

[00:00:00] Hey, this episode is brought to you in part by Signature Doors and Windows and Modern Denver Magazine now on to the show

[00:00:09] So it was a great project that Pope was coming that year for World Youth Day and there's

[00:00:17] 100 or 200,000 people gonna come and he spoke at Cherry Creek State Park

[00:00:22] So they just had this you know this huge open space and so Doug said we had to design the stations of the cross

[00:00:28] for World Youth Day for the Pope being here and that was that's as much as he said

[00:00:33] You know come up with your own site your own concept like what would those be I?

[00:00:38] Chose the mile-high contour

[00:00:40] You know there's an actual contour through the city. That's actually a mile

[00:00:46] Hi, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello and welcome to architecting. Hi, Adam

[00:00:52] Hey, how's it going good?

[00:00:54] Welcome to architecting your podcast things

[00:00:58] Should we do that thing where we introduce ourselves? Yes for first-time listeners. Who are you?

[00:01:04] Hi, I'm Adam Weiner of

[00:01:06] Hilo Buffalo architecture and

[00:01:10] architecting podcast and

[00:01:11] This is Rebecca your wife and architect architect of the year

[00:01:17] at Ginsler

[00:01:19] Who's on the podcast today?

[00:01:20] Yeah, so

[00:01:22] Today we have a fun one with Ted Schultz

[00:01:28] You know him I don't

[00:01:30] He's just a great guy. He's just he was a lot of fun

[00:01:34] Ted is a one-man show although you'll hear in the episode he

[00:01:39] He's gone through different stages in his firm where he's been larger and and I guess you can't be smaller than one person

[00:01:46] But what's the firm name?

[00:01:49] Theodore Schultz architects

[00:01:51] architect

[00:01:53] but he runs a sort of collaborative office called pendula, which is a

[00:02:01] Cool little clubhouse for architects on Santa Fe. Is that the one on Santa Fe? Yes

[00:02:07] So there's a great collective of architects there

[00:02:11] Yeah, it's a fun group

[00:02:12] so he has a one-person firm but they work pretty collaboratively amongst themselves and kind of sharing projects and

[00:02:20] workloads and and just

[00:02:23] Ideas and things so it's a cool environment. It's I'm jealous of it. Yeah, what I want but yeah, I'm really interested in that system

[00:02:33] Yeah

[00:02:36] Sorry

[00:02:40] Yeah, I felt sick and that's why this one's taken so long to get out I

[00:02:45] Was talking to my good friend

[00:02:48] Gary Wong of Wong architects in Austin, Texas

[00:02:52] The new host of the designing Austin podcast

[00:02:55] Which you should check out if if you like this same format this this hyper local architect interview show thing

[00:03:03] He's doing the same thing down in Texas. It's really cool

[00:03:06] But anyway, I was talking to him about this and I was just saying it was hard to get this introduction going because I've been sick and blah

[00:03:14] And he's like you got to do it. This is the best part with you and Rebecca

[00:03:18] He's like I just I just imagine that you're just forcing her to do this

[00:03:24] right before bedtime and she's in her pajamas and doesn't really want to do it but

[00:03:30] You put it off to last minute and this is the last time you had to do it

[00:03:33] I said so pretty pretty good visual

[00:03:37] Yeah, check out designing Austin if you knew if you were into that Texas stuff

[00:03:43] No, he does a great job and speaking of doing a great job. Yeah Ted again. This is the fun one another one in the professional

[00:03:53] Studio downtown you can check out the video of it on YouTube

[00:03:58] Enjoy you've like created your own architecture community

[00:04:02] You know and brought all these people around and have this cool architecture clubhouse going on

[00:04:09] exactly I think clubhouse is a good word

[00:04:11] and

[00:04:13] It's an evolving experiment in how to practice or practice with people. Yeah, so feel very fortunate to have

[00:04:21] It was really unplanned, but yeah, it'll be fun to talk about

[00:04:24] Yeah, and just where it's at and where it could go right

[00:04:28] Well, yeah, let's get into that so the first hard question here of who are you you know how to answer that?

[00:04:34] Yeah, you know I

[00:04:37] It dawned on me a good way to you know how to answer that question is a

[00:04:42] Good way to know what somebody's like is to watch them cook. How do they cook?

[00:04:47] And so I thought about well, how do I cook and I?

[00:04:51] Really the one thing I do is a I'll make a soup on a Sunday

[00:04:55] And I thought you know just as a like what does that say but the more I thought about it's interesting over the years

[00:05:03] making soup

[00:05:04] It's it's eerily similar to how I've evolved practicing architecture

[00:05:11] So I'm a soup maker I guess

[00:05:15] but

[00:05:16] and realize the difference is I used to really follow a recipe and

[00:05:21] You know when I know you were talking about in a recent podcast about

[00:05:27] Intuitive or analytical and I think I was far more analytical about how I said about cooking or making and

[00:05:35] now

[00:05:36] You know won't even follow a recipe. It just you know use what's in the fridge and

[00:05:40] What I like or what people who I might be cooking for it's so anyways

[00:05:44] It made me think and I've noticed other other people if I ever just see them cook

[00:05:50] It tells you a lot about who they are so I'm a soup maker

[00:05:54] What is it about that's about Sunday soup that has evolved into that like yeah, and I it made me think about that too

[00:06:01] I know as architects we have a lot going on, you know your life. There's just so many aspects teaching and

[00:06:09] Practice just has a million components to it

[00:06:12] I think what I like about it is I can focus on that one project for a couple hours

[00:06:18] You know it's pretty time-consuming

[00:06:20] there's the prep that's you know the

[00:06:23] maybe getting something out of the garden figuring out what's available or

[00:06:27] I think the after the idea is that it's a Sunday afternoon and that you can just focus on one project for a few hours

[00:06:35] It's kind of a nice thing and then

[00:06:38] You know the result is

[00:06:41] Something you can share something usually pretty generous which is a goal. I think of of

[00:06:47] Architecture if it could be something that people really enjoy and it's a very generous thing and very healthy has a lot of history

[00:06:53] Behind it maybe some culture behind what soup it was or and

[00:06:58] It's funny the more I thought about it the more correlations it started to come up with

[00:07:02] Yeah, I I do all the cooking at our house and and I love that time

[00:07:10] You know I'm I'm constantly struggling with that like five o'clock and

[00:07:15] And I feel like I don't start ramping up work

[00:07:19] Or I get really into something about 430 and then five o'clock hits and I'm like I do not want to stop it

[00:07:25] But but I have to and so going picking up the kids whatever and then that thing is still in my head

[00:07:31] And and I find yeah cooking cooking dinner

[00:07:36] Really helps out where I can kind of turn it off turn everything else off and like or like slowly turn it off

[00:07:41] and then get into that

[00:07:44] That food jazz. Yeah, I guess and

[00:07:48] Yeah transition over but so what so where'd you grow up? I'm from Denver

[00:07:54] Okay, born at st. Anthony's is no longer there along stones lake

[00:07:59] But really grew up in golden and applewood and you know Applewood's really trendy for the mid-century modern

[00:08:05] People moving out there. It was a wonderful place to that the Mesa was my backyard south table Mesa and

[00:08:14] Really my my parents

[00:08:17] My mom and parent my dad and mom are both school teachers. My dad became a school administrator

[00:08:24] but he ended up buying this fantastic house is reaching for the stars and it was

[00:08:31] Built in 1961 a big a-frame on stilts hanging off the side of the Mesa

[00:08:37] so just a spectacular place to grow up in terms of the that giant landscape and then this

[00:08:43] This a-frame house that looked to the north but this you know the sunsets were incredible every night

[00:08:48] The design of the house was really remarkable. And so

[00:08:53] Again, just very fortunate to have this environment to grow up in yeah

[00:08:59] Did it feel like a different type of house like when you went to your other friend's house or things like that? Yeah, it felt

[00:09:05] Oh, yeah

[00:09:05] Yeah, yeah, I think people really enjoyed coming over in again

[00:09:09] I liked it because it was it was really a nice house, but it was spectacular

[00:09:14] But unassuming it wasn't wasn't so in your face

[00:09:17] But it you know fairly small

[00:09:19] But this giant a-frame with a big steel fireplace in the middle of it and these huge glass windows that faced and

[00:09:26] You know we get these charnuk winds and it would just blast the house

[00:09:30] It could be it wasn't the most practical house. It's really cold in the winter

[00:09:35] It was on stilts so all the cold air was underneath just an insulated under what under it well or yeah

[00:09:41] No, no no one thought about that and so

[00:09:44] But yeah, people really enjoyed coming over as a great house to have people

[00:09:49] You know just friends and my parents had a lot of stuff in the dining room or bring people over

[00:09:55] What did they teach so my mom taught?

[00:09:57] Business at Golden High School and then she became an interior designer

[00:10:03] she decided to

[00:10:05] leave the public school system and

[00:10:08] Really self-created herself as an interior designer and my dad taught art and he became

[00:10:15] He ran the art department for Jefferson County schools and

[00:10:20] Adam he did such a good job of

[00:10:22] thinking about well he

[00:10:24] He decided that he could write grants for the public schools

[00:10:29] And I think he was one of the very first people that ever did that

[00:10:32] He he just decided to write to the Getty's the Rockefellers and he said I want to put a kiln in every classroom

[00:10:39] I want to

[00:10:40] fund my schools and

[00:10:42] It turned out that you know his fellow administrators like what are you doing?

[00:10:46] You can't you can't ask these people and he said if I don't ask I know the answer

[00:10:51] right and he yeah, so he

[00:10:54] Ended up getting millions of dollars for Jefferson County schools

[00:10:57] It turned out those people wanted to fund the arts were looking for a new avenue to really make it impactful in the public and

[00:11:05] I

[00:11:07] Think that's had a big influence on me

[00:11:09] Also, just that idea of well you know the answer if you don't ask that was great Harvey Hines interview that you did with him

[00:11:16] No, just knock on the door internationally of architects. Yeah, you know that whole idea of just why not ask?

[00:11:22] And you never know and it could be

[00:11:25] It's exactly what the other sides looking for they say oh this is great. We've had this problem

[00:11:31] We don't know where to give this money, right?

[00:11:34] So what so what was his kind of median that you he would work in what was he creating a lot of art around the house?

[00:11:40] yeah, so dad was a watercolor artist and

[00:11:44] but we had

[00:11:47] Tons of artists come through the house and

[00:11:51] There was a in the 60s there was a group of painters called the Colorado 15 so abstract expressionist there

[00:11:59] At that time, you know really the leading group of artists in Colorado and you know

[00:12:06] Dad would invite him for workshops and posiums

[00:12:08] You know I grew up with all these guys and they they would call me teddy or I would clean up after all their parties

[00:12:15] But there several of them are in the Kirkland Museum

[00:12:19] Oh really and you know if you go in there all these artists

[00:12:22] I grew up with and just had as friends and some of them are still alive

[00:12:26] We're losing a lot of them that was another just huge influence just to be surrounded constantly by

[00:12:33] Art and ideas and people that were just unafraid to make things happen. Yeah, so was it was that some of the same?

[00:12:41] knocking on the doors where he would just see see a good artist that he liked didn't go and approach them or was it as sort of

[00:12:48] He just had friendships with people and yeah, yeah

[00:12:51] He was he was a master of that and he would just he would approach people and say you know

[00:12:57] Would you do a symposium in the schools? Would you like to collaborate?

[00:13:01] Would you so he was really involved with you know Vance Kirkland, you know with du and

[00:13:07] Red Rocks and you just he really integrated the whole

[00:13:12] art community for the benefit of the exposure of the students and

[00:13:17] You know the work he did, you know we have the Pritzker Prize in architecture, right?

[00:13:22] But every year they honor the National Art Educator of the year and he got that in 86 Wow

[00:13:29] So I think he was he was just an incredible connector not afraid to write grants not afraid to

[00:13:37] Make all these things have you just passionate about kids

[00:13:41] being able to

[00:13:43] Besides math and science you really there's just a lot of kids that weren't interested in all that right so it's phenomenal

[00:13:50] What he did so again, I think

[00:13:53] Looking

[00:13:54] It was nice to see both my parents just reach for the stars and

[00:14:01] Just say why not you know and they you know, they were very unassuming about it. It wasn't about status or about

[00:14:08] Hey look at us or it was just about

[00:14:11] You know bringing great things, you know within their disciplines and and pursuing their passions right of saying

[00:14:21] Yeah, this is what makes me happier. This is what I want to do and pushing forward with it. Yeah, so

[00:14:27] So then when you got to when you graduated high school, did you know what you wanted to do?

[00:14:33] Was it all set up for architecture or yeah? Yeah, I knew in fourth grade what I wanted to do one of those huh?

[00:14:39] Yeah, so what was that like?

[00:14:41] So that was you know an applewood then

[00:14:45] the it was a lot of small maybe acre

[00:14:49] Little horse pasture, you know people had horses and they would ride them on the mesa

[00:14:53] well eventually that was really prime land to get developed and

[00:14:58] There were a lot of these 70s track houses coming in just all around the house we had

[00:15:04] My dad mentioned he said these houses need an architect

[00:15:08] I said what did what is an architect and he explained to me that you know

[00:15:12] They they just they could do better with some thought and especially with that beautiful landscape, but I thought wow

[00:15:19] That'd be something I'd like to I'd like to do that right so that's how that got started

[00:15:24] But I never wavered from it. Hmm fourth grade my my dad built our house that we grew up in and

[00:15:30] It wasn't it wasn't an a-frame, but it it had a lot of volume to it

[00:15:34] It had a bunch of exposed structure

[00:15:36] It had these things that you don't see often, you know and

[00:15:40] And I do think that that influenced me a lot, you know thinking yeah house doesn't have to look like

[00:15:46] This or like that and yeah and being I mean it's interesting being in that

[00:15:52] Invite that spatial environment and then

[00:15:55] Being surrounded by that group of artists in the 60s like that that combined with two teacher parents

[00:16:00] Yeah, I like set you right off onto the architecture path, right? So then when you got to school

[00:16:06] Where'd you go? Did you go to see you Boulder? I did yeah and

[00:16:11] At that time I know you've had lots of other people on the podcast talk about that oil embargo

[00:16:17] And all that stuff happening in the 70s and so I graduated high school in

[00:16:22] 1980 okay, and

[00:16:24] I talked to several architects just to you know

[00:16:27] Just talk to them about what I you know what how the path should work

[00:16:32] Every one of them told me have something to fall back on because I think they had just been through

[00:16:37] Hell, you know who were those guys that you were talking to? Oh, you know local guys there was

[00:16:45] You know friends of my parents and say you know I think local practitioners here and you know

[00:16:50] I had opportunities when I was in you know how you would go for a day and hang out with a professional from your school

[00:16:58] But every one of them said get a structural engineering

[00:17:02] Degree also see if somebody to fall back on it was funny

[00:17:05] And so I took that advice so my first I went to Boulder

[00:17:10] But to the engineering school Archee up there, okay, and I think Brant and Greg who you just interviewed

[00:17:16] They were up there about the same time I was yeah, and I

[00:17:20] Really could identify something else that Harvey Hines said you know I I was really disappointed in my education

[00:17:27] I didn't tell the director like he did but it was all about I think

[00:17:32] Training you to be a cog in the wheel you know training you to be a proficient engineer in a firm

[00:17:37] Which there's nothing wrong with but it just didn't

[00:17:40] stimulate it just didn't stimulate thought or

[00:17:43] It was really about just checking all of these boxes and you know

[00:17:47] It's a four and a half year program. They are hardly like this is the architecture engineering program within the engineering school

[00:17:54] Okay, right, and it's mostly civil

[00:17:56] so it's it was just a very few electives and

[00:18:02] So I found it really frustrating. I went ahead and finished it but

[00:18:06] it was

[00:18:07] At the end of the day it in terms of just

[00:18:11] Education in terms of giving you tools of things to work with it always had something to fall back

[00:18:17] So you did a full four and a half four years of that yeah four and a half. Yeah, yeah

[00:18:22] and

[00:18:24] Then and then yeah what?

[00:18:26] What did that set you off into yeah, so that was that made it really interesting

[00:18:31] To get because I knew I wanted to be an architect

[00:18:35] So I had this degree and I thought

[00:18:39] I'd like to work for an architecture firm. I did some internships during the summers

[00:18:44] Like at Syracuse Lawler. It was a huge firm in town. He had 70 employees

[00:18:50] So I had some exposure, but I took my portfolio at that time. There was another

[00:18:57] In 84 we had another horrible recession

[00:19:01] You know Denver was a one horse just oil and gas town

[00:19:04] Yeah, you know it's so much more diverse with but if oil and gas was down there was just no work

[00:19:10] But that was actually good my my mom had had a second marriage and moved to Florida

[00:19:16] And they were booming and I was ready to do something different after growing up in Denver going to school in Boulder

[00:19:22] So Florida was booming and I I decided to knock on doors

[00:19:27] Just so I knocked on the doors of 40 different architects for just Orlando Tampa

[00:19:34] Just the yellow pages, you know just like that. I think I just I don't know looking for a job and

[00:19:40] Was your hit right there? Oh, it's zero. I mean the 40th finally said, oh, yeah

[00:19:46] So you just kept going until someone I mean were people answering the doors and talking with you or they're just closing

[00:19:52] Yeah, yeah, almost everybody. I got an interview right on the spot. Hmm. So again, just knock on the doors

[00:19:58] They and they were busy. They needed people but they couldn't understand

[00:20:02] My degree. Oh, right. I like well, you know, I had drafting classes. I can do all this stuff

[00:20:07] but the the 40th said yeah, come on and

[00:20:12] So I worked for a couple years in Tampa for that firm

[00:20:16] The owner

[00:20:17] Well that it was a branch office of a big office in North Carolina

[00:20:21] But the head of the branch office he started his own practice and he took me with him

[00:20:25] So it was just the two of us for a for a while like like right after you got there to Florida

[00:20:31] Yeah, so I worked probably it was called tag

[00:20:34] I worked at tag for about a year and a half and then Walter the

[00:20:38] The regional manager he started you broke off and took his and so it was actually quite nice

[00:20:44] He took me took the cheapest guy with him, but you know, that's how fast I learned and figured out how to do stuff and

[00:20:51] What's gonna work for you doing we were doing apartment big apartment projects

[00:20:55] So literally we would cut out the shape of the apartment building and

[00:21:00] Then had the site and then I remember just taking those pieces of paper and throwing them on the table and

[00:21:06] Arranging those apartment buildings and trying to weave in parking and all these big retention ponds

[00:21:11] You have to have them it was not very enlightened architecture for sure, huh?

[00:21:15] but

[00:21:17] You know just amazing what my colleagues know, you know what architects just to put a set of drawings together and

[00:21:23] so it was it was fine for me it gave me an introduction to

[00:21:28] To you know what architecture is all about or one side of it anyway

[00:21:34] And then how did that end?

[00:21:36] So that I ended up

[00:21:39] You know we would work all hours and that was great because it didn't paid by the hour

[00:21:43] so I think was five bucks an hour, but

[00:21:46] How that ended was I went to a party and

[00:21:51] Met someone who had just come back

[00:21:55] From an island called st. Croix and so Adam I

[00:22:00] I don't know if you've ever just sat next to somebody and play you know just end up talking and just have this

[00:22:06] I could not hear enough about this island and they had lived there for a year and a half or so

[00:22:11] They told me all about what it was like to live there and

[00:22:15] So I just decided right then and there I'm moving

[00:22:18] You know, I think I played out everything in Tampa and you know

[00:22:22] We're working all those hours as a little burned out right and so I told my girlfriend. Who's my wife now?

[00:22:29] The next day I said I told her all about this island and said I'd like to go and she said I'd like to go too

[00:22:35] So sight unseen we move to st. Croix

[00:22:38] They don't they don't have 20 architects on the island right how many doors are there to knock on yeah, yeah

[00:22:42] So that what happened well that

[00:22:45] She got a job teaching through the mail so she had a job before we got there

[00:22:49] But I just I took carpentry tools. I thought I could be a bartender

[00:22:53] I brought my drafting stuff just in case you were just like that much into island life

[00:22:57] You were just ready ready for it. Yeah, why not have it just a change and

[00:23:02] the we

[00:23:04] Got there and we're in that like a guest house just to that very and the very next morning

[00:23:09] I'm brushing my teeth the guy next to me

[00:23:11] You know he's brushing his teeth like he had just moved to the island

[00:23:15] Like what do you do? And I just left an architecture firm

[00:23:17] Like dropped his toothbrush. He said oh my god. I just came down to work at an archer architecture firm were swamped

[00:23:25] He says you have to come down. He says you have to come down

[00:23:30] Yeah, and so I went it was a Thursday went down

[00:23:32] I put a tie on and I met the owner and he's all man hired me on the spot doubled my salary when I was making in Florida

[00:23:39] And I said well do you want me to come tomorrow Friday? He's like no and get rid of that effing tie

[00:23:45] He said go to the beach and

[00:23:48] Adam it was pinch me. Yeah, that's fantastic and we were doing all this wonderful

[00:23:54] houses and you know

[00:23:56] businesses on the island and

[00:23:59] Every morning I loved how they worked. We would meet for coffee for about an hour

[00:24:03] There was six or seven of us

[00:24:04] So it was a little coffee in the square right below the office

[00:24:08] You know and talk about life and maybe a little bit about projects

[00:24:12] Work for about six and a half hours. We all wore our shorts and t-shirts, but did really good work, you know, I think

[00:24:19] Learned that you don't you don't have to kill yourself to do good work. You know, they they just had a great attitude and

[00:24:26] Very sharp architects. I think the island attracted people that

[00:24:31] You know, it's some really great people, but they just they just needed an unassuming

[00:24:37] just casual place to be and

[00:24:40] Oh man was that great?

[00:24:43] So I know it just this happened. Yeah, it's funny

[00:24:48] I just had some friends who've been living in Denver and they just bought a little compound of buildings in St.

[00:24:55] Croix and the same thing where they had been building up sort of

[00:24:59] You know a duplex owned a duplex then like have four plex and an eight plex and then their goal was to like to go to

[00:25:06] St. Croix and buy buy a spot and the invitations there I need to take them up on it. Oh you do

[00:25:12] Oh, you do. Yeah, it's the town Christian said is what is a lot of people say it's the nicest

[00:25:19] in terms of architecture just like a like a like a small

[00:25:24] City very small, but it's beautiful

[00:25:27] architecturally gorgeous. It's all Danish architecture. Oh interesting that the

[00:25:33] Danes would bring brick over as ballast and take mahogany and and rum back

[00:25:38] so it's all made out of Danish brick but with like this hybrid of Danish architecture meets Caribbean

[00:25:45] It's a beautiful city and I mean it very again. It's very different from St.

[00:25:50] Thomas or the other or St. John

[00:25:52] So, yeah, I would it was a lovely place to live. It was it was quite

[00:25:58] It's quite laid back, but just with a lot of really interesting people

[00:26:03] Yeah, so so why aren't you still there? What well that's so it just gets crazier from there

[00:26:09] I think a lot of you know my whole architecture career has really happened to me. I don't know that I've really planned

[00:26:16] that was on the roof of a

[00:26:20] of a re-roofing of a condo project and

[00:26:23] The head of the homeowners Association or the condo Association said well, do you know an architect that can do a house for me?

[00:26:31] And I said well, yeah, we do them all the time and he said you're not listening to me

[00:26:35] He says do you know someone who can do a house for me?

[00:26:39] Like like are you talking to me? You know, I think I'm 25 and

[00:26:47] Well, I like and so we agreed on like I don't know four thousand dollars and he gave me his car

[00:26:52] I didn't have a car

[00:26:54] my wife or my my girlfriend at the time had a car so we

[00:26:59] We're going to dollars in a car and a car

[00:27:02] Well, he had breakfast the next day and said I found this young guy that can do plans and

[00:27:07] Jan who he had breakfast with was the lead or like the most successful realtor on the island and the head of the Chamber of Commerce

[00:27:15] And so she took me to breakfast and said your life is gonna change

[00:27:20] I mean, I mean that was my interview. She just told me my life is gonna change and

[00:27:26] So I started to get all these

[00:27:30] There was another part of the story is St. Croix goes through these huge cycles like a hurricane will wipe it out or

[00:27:37] there it

[00:27:38] It was just peaking again after 15 years of just nothing and so people were

[00:27:43] Coming left and right and buying lots and building vacation houses

[00:27:47] And she had no one to do these houses like your firm was swamped or too expensive like the firm

[00:27:54] You were working at before I mean, yeah, you know, I guess I could do it

[00:27:58] It's all I do it a lot less expensively

[00:28:01] I suppose you end up with a lot of cars but like it still worked

[00:28:03] Yeah, but there's just not enough warm bodies on an island like this

[00:28:06] You know there they're busy enough or and it was a I don't think I'll like Denver's a boom

[00:28:12] Or we've seen quite a boom of the last decade

[00:28:15] The boom was unbelievable Adam

[00:28:17] there were so many people coming and buying lots and building houses and

[00:28:22] They're all coming down from the East Coasties and they're all fabulous

[00:28:25] Vacation houses that they want to build by the ocean and

[00:28:29] She just didn't have enough she could sell lots, but there was not near enough people to take care of them and

[00:28:36] So

[00:28:38] So I started for a year. I just worked

[00:28:42] I would moonlight doing that and then eventually within two years. I had seven people working for me

[00:28:49] designing vacation houses and you just you found people and

[00:28:53] I mean, I mean whatever I could do trained or yeah, just yeah, I brought people down from Florida

[00:28:58] I had my brother went to the 30 years old yet

[00:29:01] I'm 25 years old and

[00:29:04] My brother at this time. He's at the GSD. He's an architect also

[00:29:07] Oh, yeah, so I had him working on stuff some of his buddies working on stuff, you know, like here's a house

[00:29:13] Here's a house. Here's a house ahead and it was blasted

[00:29:16] Jan had her office

[00:29:19] Downtown and she I rented a space right above her

[00:29:22] So she would sell a piece of land and they would just come right up

[00:29:24] Just go go around go around the corner with the stairs and yeah

[00:29:28] It's just you can't one stop shop and then the contractor was the building next over

[00:29:34] So what did that do what did that do to your island life, you know of

[00:29:39] You're like, oh, I like an hour coffee and I like my six-hour days

[00:29:43] But you're getting all this work, you know, did it did you have to make the switch where you're working crazy hours?

[00:29:50] And you know well that the only thing that changed that because you know that ethos

[00:29:56] people understood it but what

[00:29:59] What changed that was the fax machine?

[00:30:03] One of my clients bought me one of those days and it was like 3,500 bucks

[00:30:07] And I know again who was talking about the thermo paper and just all that yeah

[00:30:11] I think the KLNA guys so because the postal system was so lousy

[00:30:16] And from the islands, you know everything was island life and part of the reason people come down there

[00:30:21] They understand they don't like if you want to be al-frantic you don't belong there

[00:30:26] So but the fax machine all of a sudden you know before we would do sketches and mail

[00:30:32] And then it would take a while for it was really nice the back and forth or I had my own blueprint machine

[00:30:38] I made blueprints and send them but all of a sudden you could get a call and say well

[00:30:43] Can you fax me that by five so that anyways that but it was still fine

[00:30:49] They were really not the clients were very patient

[00:30:54] So what ended all of that hurricane Hugo came through and just destroyed the island it went on to

[00:31:02] Charleston afterwards it was one of the most vicious

[00:31:06] you know

[00:31:07] hurricanes and like literally it just destroyed the island and

[00:31:13] September 18th, it was 1989

[00:31:17] You know woke up the next morning that the island was just denuded it looked like winter in Colorado

[00:31:23] And there were cars and trees and we were really just happy to be alive and

[00:31:28] I wanted to rebuild the island and the worst you know, I love that place. I thought it was you know as an architect

[00:31:35] but my wife

[00:31:37] Was no place for her it was all the looting was unbelievable

[00:31:42] The National Guard was looting the police were looting the National Guard trucks were full of mattresses. It's the first time in

[00:31:49] 100 years we had to call out our own military around our own soil is kind of wild does the quellet and it was

[00:31:55] It was and her schools were destroyed and but it gave me a chance to go to

[00:32:01] architecture school finally

[00:32:03] So I've never been after after owning a firm of six seven people eight people and yeah

[00:32:08] He's not funny school now. It's time to go to school and the one thing about St. Croix

[00:32:13] They did have a draftsman's license. It was the only place I've ever heard of this and

[00:32:17] The test was a really serious test you had to draw a full set of drawings

[00:32:22] For a house in six hours and answer all this stuff. It was

[00:32:26] The only way you could do houses down there's you had well you had to be an architect or you had this draftsman's license

[00:32:31] so

[00:32:32] It gave me a chance. I'm like I always wanted to go to architecture school. So

[00:32:37] Fine we spent a year in DC area. I got a job with an architect just to fill in and

[00:32:45] Apply it around and ended up coming to see you you know, I'm from here, but I was really impressed

[00:32:51] You know EJ from arc 11. Yeah, he was a student there at the time and I

[00:32:56] Walked in and he spent a couple hours talking with me. Oh, it's just great like the people were that accessible

[00:33:02] He really told me how great the work was and I had spent a lot of time at the GSD with my brother

[00:33:07] I would go and help him. He's older. I would help him during finals. What's his name?

[00:33:12] His name is Lyndon

[00:33:13] You know, I'd sit in and you know

[00:33:15] You talked about how those studios are like at at Yale and you know that we don't quite have the same atmosphere here

[00:33:22] when you were talking with Katie, but I

[00:33:24] Had a really good taste of after spending

[00:33:28] You know, I would spend a week at a time with him and I'd drop in and listen to all that stuff

[00:33:34] That's awesome. I really I honestly think what was happening here was just as good probably the one difference

[00:33:41] Was you're just the access to so many

[00:33:45] famous and big thinkers coming through right but I thought the quality of the work and

[00:33:50] So I ended up here at CU to get my masters

[00:33:54] So who was here? It was like Douglas Darden. Yeah, right and yeah, what about the CU at that time?

[00:34:02] Really drew you in, you know like was it dirt in or like the people there or?

[00:34:09] Yeah, and I think listening to people like EJ and people that really talked about it after that experience

[00:34:15] of engineering is going being quite dry, right? I was really ready for some some really rich

[00:34:22] thinking and engagement and challenging and and so

[00:34:27] it and it worked that the teachers were fantastic and so

[00:34:33] Across the board it was you know, I ended up in Darden's studio for the last man strap in and

[00:34:41] You know that was he was no more wanting

[00:34:43] No more island life in but I'm so glad I had that you know, he was

[00:34:48] He was on his last legs at that time. You know he with his cancer and he

[00:34:53] He would just teach lying on the floor. The guy was amazing. Just he was so visceral and so

[00:35:00] Oh man, what an experience did he have a sense that he was gonna die?

[00:35:05] I mean yeah, and so this so that was really I mean he like he chose to do that with his last

[00:35:11] years, right and like chose to

[00:35:15] That's so interesting. I

[00:35:17] been thinking

[00:35:18] Yeah, been thinking about that of you know, like if you knew you were gonna die

[00:35:21] What would you do? You know and like what's that thing that you're passionate about and and it to kind of feel that?

[00:35:28] that passion or that

[00:35:32] Not desperation necessarily but coming off somebody like that, you know with all these ideas and knowing that it's

[00:35:38] It's almost over

[00:35:40] Yeah, I think he was definitely fighting it but knew I mean

[00:35:47] Absolutely knew that you know his chances that this but he would and he kept drawing till the until the end too

[00:35:55] You know, he would strap in and draw for 16 hours straight and he would use talcum powder and you know just

[00:36:01] He would but but just so successful. He would really listen to he wasn't a

[00:36:06] He was intense but just so open and not an ego maniac kind of thing

[00:36:12] Not at all and he loved to learn from us as well

[00:36:15] He was just man

[00:36:17] But you know that the school and I actually think the schools even gotten better, you know from all of the programs it

[00:36:25] With the design build and other ones within communities and you know when I do juries down there. I

[00:36:31] I'm really impressed. I tell people see you's rocking it. It's a really good architecture school. So yeah, no, I agree

[00:36:39] I think there's there's great things happening and good good new

[00:36:42] Professors coming in and yeah mark these five cameras doing a great job and

[00:36:47] But so what what was that? What was that final project?

[00:36:51] So it was a great project that Pope was coming that year for World Youth Day

[00:36:56] And so that's a bit, you know the Pope's coming to Denver and there's

[00:37:01] 100 or 200,000 people gonna come and he he spoke at Cherry Creek State Park

[00:37:06] So they just had this you know this huge open space and so Doug said

[00:37:12] You know create a

[00:37:14] He wanted us to do the stations of the cross

[00:37:17] You know in the Catholic Church. There's the 14 stations and we had to design the stations of the cross

[00:37:24] for World Youth Day for the Pope being here and that was that's as much as he said so you had to

[00:37:31] You know come up with your own site your own concept like what would those be?

[00:37:35] So I I chose the mile-high contour

[00:37:39] You know there's an actual contour through the city. That's actually a mile

[00:37:43] So it was fun marked in some way or just just no, you know, I think it should be I think it'd be

[00:37:48] But that was the proposition was you know the mile-high is if you I got out those

[00:37:54] old seven-minute maps, you know

[00:37:55] You could go to the federal center and get those big beautiful topographic maps before we had Google everything

[00:38:01] But there these about the size of this table and you piece them together

[00:38:05] And you have the city and you can find the 5280 contour so what was fun about it was

[00:38:12] It was completely random where it goes based on our city

[00:38:16] Right and so I thought you know

[00:38:19] What a nice thing in terms of the faith and the stations of the cross to follow something that is this uncertain path and

[00:38:27] It was amazing because at Lee it actually led down Cherry Creek and had a lot of correlation

[00:38:33] Surprisingly of where it where it ended up and then design these stations where

[00:38:39] Related to you know, Jesus falls three times and all you know where he's actually put on the cross that you had to interpret

[00:38:45] each one of those right so

[00:38:48] Yeah, it's very loaded Doug Darden project

[00:38:56] And what was that what was that like coming in with all your your practical experience right like you had to be

[00:39:05] Fairly advanced student coming in compared to some of the other ones and had a lot of practical knowledge

[00:39:11] Was it was an easy shift for you to make into that more ephemeral kind of thinking or was it you had to get

[00:39:21] Squeezed and reshaped a little bit. Yeah, you know, I think that or you just ready for it. Yeah, I think the seven years of

[00:39:29] Practice, you know you took seven years off between. Yeah, and I'm really glad I did I think it

[00:39:34] You know whatever circumstance led to that normally I think I would have gone much sooner

[00:39:39] But I really liked having that all under my belt. It made it far more engaging and

[00:39:47] You know I could I was the TA for all the structures classes to fill gay egos. Yeah, so that was fun

[00:39:53] I think the and I liked

[00:39:56] helping you know structures was so confusing for so many students and to

[00:40:01] To make it palatable and understandable

[00:40:05] It was it was just fun to I think teach it in a way that I never it was never taught to me

[00:40:11] but more from the perspective of the architecture school right and

[00:40:16] And I TA'd the history classes just because I really wanted to learn it again and again

[00:40:22] And and then studios and all the theory classes I could possibly take it was it was wonderful

[00:40:29] But you know what happened when we got here, you know where you mentioned like we're all having babies while we

[00:40:34] Make architect when I got here

[00:40:39] You know we're having kids and we're going to we would go to barbecues on the weekends with our babies other young families and

[00:40:47] Every barbecue I went to everyone needs a master bedroom edition a pop-top

[00:40:53] So I got just as well. I didn't have to hire those people, but I got slammed

[00:40:58] So I was during grad school. Yeah, so I was doing

[00:41:02] All kinds of the other that kind of thing pop tops and additions

[00:41:08] While I was in school, so I kept on working. I never really stopped and

[00:41:16] So that but actually that was fine it was I would just just

[00:41:21] You know whenever the kids were asleep. I just work all night

[00:41:24] Yeah

[00:41:24] And so how old were your kids at that point when you're in grad school the semester before I took Darden

[00:41:30] I had my six month old in my backpack and I went to see his

[00:41:36] I don't know why I must have having to do daycare or something and

[00:41:40] But I went to see Doug's final

[00:41:43] Because I was trying to decide if I wanted to yeah, and so

[00:41:47] It was off-site somewhere where you know and in this he always has some incredible program that he's putting together

[00:41:52] And he had just presented the whole idea and the depth and the excitement and

[00:41:57] And they were about to break into groups and everyone was going to go look at the work

[00:42:00] So all were assembled and there was just a couple second pause before people leave

[00:42:06] And my son was in the backpack and he just gave the biggest

[00:42:10] Raspberry and it was so perfect because Doug had just been so flowery about all this stuff

[00:42:17] Everyone laughed including Doug. It was just hilarious, but um, so my kids were I just had my son during that last

[00:42:25] You know that last studio and ended up

[00:42:29] So crazy crazy

[00:42:31] That's where really I got started here in Denver with I called it agency for architecture

[00:42:37] And you know, I like that word agency because it means office but also means

[00:42:43] Connecting dissimilar things or if you have agency you have you know, it invites you to have some kind of

[00:42:49] Participation or you have some value or I like that word agency a lot

[00:42:54] And uh

[00:42:55] So that so you started you started that. Did you start it with somebody else? I've heard of that

[00:43:01] No, it was just you. Okay. It was just me. Yeah, I just I ran across it and there was a time where um

[00:43:08] The uh

[00:43:11] A colleague from school, you know, we were gonna partner up and stuff

[00:43:14] But it worked actually worked out better just to live together and stay get married

[00:43:19] You know really worked out so Jim and I worked on for a long time. We met at school

[00:43:24] But um, it's hard to find that perfect partnership. Yeah, and I thought you know, I know you've been through it some and

[00:43:30] no

[00:43:31] You know nothing wrong with that really and I think

[00:43:34] For me and I and I also thought you know, no harm in

[00:43:37] That metaphor of just living together instead of getting married

[00:43:41] And uh sharing

[00:43:43] You know, we ended up buying an office building a building together

[00:43:46] Which was great, you know as an architect to own your own building right then you have a that's the thing just fall back on

[00:43:54] You instead of engineering fall back is at the building you're in now or is it it was a different? It's right next door and then I moved

[00:44:02] So how are you

[00:44:04] You know to me now like as a young architect that seems unfathomable, you know

[00:44:09] Especially in Denver of being able to buy a building or you know have an office

[00:44:13] uh

[00:44:14] Was that just

[00:44:16] Yeah, I guess you were already more advanced in school and working during school and just able to save up enough and

[00:44:23] And then with the agency

[00:44:25] Did you have projects right away or just kind of a continuation of the the pop tops and those kind of things?

[00:44:32] Yeah, you know, again, it just kept evolving. I was doing that and then

[00:44:36] my sister-in-law worked for westward

[00:44:39] and uh riga's christu has a bunch of nightclubs and the

[00:44:43] vinyl and

[00:44:45] And uh sarin getty and the church there was all these well

[00:44:50] She sold advertising for westward and

[00:44:53] You know knew him really well and knew he was looking for an architect. Like a new a new architect

[00:45:01] And so

[00:45:02] introduced me and uh

[00:45:04] He owned it was called the funky buddha at ninth and lincoln eighth and lincoln

[00:45:09] And uh, he wanted to put a roof deck on there was one other roof deck in denver

[00:45:14] I think it was down in lodo. But you know roof decks were this brand new thing really and uh

[00:45:20] Like what do I know about roof decks? But you know, he he was cycling through architects and wanted to get a new one and uh

[00:45:28] He hired me to do this roof deck. Like again, I have no idea how to do a roof deck

[00:45:33] You know when I got all those houses in st. Croix, I didn't know how to do

[00:45:36] I've had to teach myself over and over again how to do stuff. But you know, you can yeah, so uh,

[00:45:41] What was it? What was there? I want to

[00:45:44] Dwell on that for a second like was there fear there with in in st. Croix of like

[00:45:49] I don't know how to do this

[00:45:50] I can't do this by myself and then you like somehow got pushed through it or do you have

[00:45:56] The more that personality where you're like, I might not know how to do this

[00:45:58] But I'll figure it out and then each time it gets easier and easier

[00:46:02] Yeah, I think I just

[00:46:04] You know, I was working with

[00:46:06] That firm and you know as I transitioned we had houses. I just studied the plans. Oh, right. Yeah

[00:46:12] And so I just told myself this is not that here's the structural engineering. Here's all this stuff and uh

[00:46:19] So I I just fit I'll just figure it out and in the surround people with you know

[00:46:24] With people that know how to do stuff, right? But we yeah that and one of the nice things too at doing that roof deck

[00:46:31] Was we had to work really closely with the fire department and at that time chief joe

[00:46:37] Joe ganjalas. He was such a magnificent. He was the chief of fire prevention

[00:46:42] And I just remember really collaborating with

[00:46:46] the

[00:46:48] Which is so much more accessible you could go down and work with all the architects and and the reviewers at the building department

[00:46:55] It was fantastic

[00:46:57] And so really worked out with the fire chief how this is going to happen

[00:47:02] And so again, I didn't have to know a ton of stuff. He

[00:47:05] He said, you know, I think we can do this and they would he would talk about all the code sections and

[00:47:10] You know, a lot of it's pretty basic. You just got to figure out how to get a stair there

[00:47:14] You put a bar up there, you know how to get the roof on you know, and then

[00:47:18] Like for instance, we put a whole new structure above the roof and left the roof so the water would just rain through

[00:47:24] and uh

[00:47:26] well

[00:47:28] This roof tech thing now everybody wants a roof deck because it's this new hot thing and you're the roof deck guy

[00:47:35] I'm the roof that guy. Isn't that bizarre?

[00:47:37] I mean like suddenly i'm the roof tech guy, which

[00:47:41] While i'm doing their roof deck. Well, we need to expand our restaurant. We know and I became the restaurant guy

[00:47:46] So that's how I got, you know windcoupe brewing company

[00:47:49] I had all these people

[00:47:51] Contact me and then once i'm working for windcoupe and they've got

[00:47:55] We're expanding the cricket we're doing, you know just i'm getting to do all this really fun stuff and uh

[00:48:02] You know again, I didn't I didn't I didn't know how to do one thing about a restaurant

[00:48:07] But all of a sudden they're like well, it's

[00:48:09] We just need to add this or we need to add a patio. We need to

[00:48:13] So it's been it's funny. I feel like my career has constantly just happened to me

[00:48:18] but take it

[00:48:20] You know people say, you know

[00:48:22] Very lucky, but I do agree with this premise that you make your own luck, right?

[00:48:27] And again, I didn't I made it by just showing up in st. Croix

[00:48:31] I mean I could have just been a bartender

[00:48:33] But or I just made it up by being on that roof and I made it up by you know

[00:48:38] I just think yes, right and that's the kind of difference. Yeah, so I think i've been really lucky

[00:48:44] Yeah, but I think yeah you

[00:48:47] somehow

[00:48:49] Because that question comes up all the time adam about how to how do you get work?

[00:48:54] Right, you know and I've got a lot of young guys in the office that

[00:48:58] Asked that all the time

[00:49:00] And I move to an island. I think yeah, I think just be

[00:49:04] Present be out there being rubbing shoulders with there's this phrase from a podcast. I listen to it's a

[00:49:11] The definition of culture is people like us do things like this

[00:49:16] So it's really fascinating like that's what culture is if you think of any culture people like this group do things like this

[00:49:24] so if you're out and about in

[00:49:27] You know you can think about just restaurants here or these apartments or you know, there's a certain way we do things in Denver

[00:49:35] And so if you're just in a

[00:49:38] You know get on the board of a nonprofit or just be out there just be mixing

[00:49:45] Your people will find out you're an architect and you're naturally doing things that everybody else is doing and they're gonna go

[00:49:51] Well, you help me

[00:49:53] I just think the key is to be

[00:49:55] out where

[00:49:57] You're you're doing things like everybody's doing and then naturally they're gonna like I would have barbecues and people needed something

[00:50:04] right

[00:50:06] But but it's also interesting like I struggle with this a lot of

[00:50:09] Okay, I only I only have a certain amount of hours in the day

[00:50:12] Right and so much effort that I can put into things and projects take so long

[00:50:17] Yeah, you know and I would get into a thing of if someone offered me a roof deck

[00:50:22] Even if I need a project I'd be like, I don't know

[00:50:24] Do I want to spend the next three months doing a roof deck?

[00:50:27] You know and and I almost talk myself out of most projects before I even see if there's a

[00:50:33] Cool spark or something to them. But like how

[00:50:36] So for you, I mean

[00:50:38] You know getting out of grad school with with all these ideas and this and the stations are across and like thinking

[00:50:45] big like that and then going to

[00:50:48] pop tops and

[00:50:49] and

[00:50:49] Roof decks and like that that wasn't an issue for you

[00:50:53] You're you're able to really find sort of it seems like you're able to find like the joy in in these different tasks easily

[00:51:00] but

[00:51:01] Yeah, I think that

[00:51:02] the

[00:51:03] Problem solving is really

[00:51:05] interesting

[00:51:07] And I I think that and I just really like people

[00:51:11] So if they're thinking oh, I have this dream even if it's

[00:51:14] You know, I want to create this auto body shop

[00:51:17] But then we try to

[00:51:19] Really make it an environment where they're going to thrive right but I uh, but a lot of times there's

[00:51:26] There's quite a bit of opportunity in there. So, you know, occasionally it is just getting somebody through a permit

[00:51:32] but

[00:51:33] It's it's incredible how often there are these ways you can craft it and and try I always think of

[00:51:40] Having a dollar do six things

[00:51:42] Because it's so expensive

[00:51:44] So I tell them well, it's got to do this this this this and this and so really invite the outside in and have this happen and

[00:51:52] um

[00:51:53] we did uh

[00:51:55] I'm very lucky and got to do the uh a sculpture garden for foothills art center museum out in golden and uh

[00:52:03] And again, they wanted a sculpture garden, but they the entry was really confusing and there was no place for a fundraiser outside and there was

[00:52:11] We just made sure all of these things happened within the exact same footprint and had now they use it for parties now they

[00:52:19] Now it's very clear how to get in the building and how to

[00:52:22] So I think that that's you can if you since it's so expensive you

[00:52:28] There's all kinds of opportunity in that about how do you answer a ton of different

[00:52:32] If you're only answering one thing with a dollar, it's not worth it. Hmm

[00:52:37] Yeah, except for those people who have way too many dollars. Yeah

[00:52:40] Yeah

[00:52:42] But so yeah, so you talked about so then then you became the restaurant guy, right and uh

[00:52:49] Take us through I mean, you know, I

[00:52:51] Some of the work that I know you best for is you know around around the highlands and

[00:52:57] And route down and little man and yeah, how did those projects come about? I mean, and they're they're both of those are very distinctive. Yeah

[00:53:05] Yeah, so um

[00:53:08] Just fantastic clients that have these ideas

[00:53:11] You know if you're used to trying to just really

[00:53:14] Give everything you like get all you can out of a project the uh

[00:53:20] You know get really excited about that, but you know this network that just keeps building

[00:53:25] You know contractors with

[00:53:28] You know a lot of times people come to a contractor first

[00:53:31] And that's how really I got involved up in the highlands

[00:53:34] was contractor doing work up there

[00:53:36] introducing me around and

[00:53:40] The uh, you know the the we did olinger up there. Oh, yeah, and then in 2003

[00:53:47] There was just nothing going on up there. Nothing. I mean and so

[00:53:51] um, Paul Tamborello bought

[00:53:54] Olinger and I had met him through this contractor

[00:53:58] And uh, he was really looking for somebody

[00:54:01] Again, sometimes, you know just looking for somebody that's going to embrace what he's talking about

[00:54:06] And uh, he and Stephanie Garcia bought that and they

[00:54:10] You know we did the plans to corn shell to

[00:54:14] and

[00:54:15] No restaurants were biting. Nobody was coming up. I mean it was

[00:54:19] We had that thing done already. It was just really

[00:54:22] Really down and out. Yeah, nobody saw the vision

[00:54:25] Yeah, and then it was uh, and he and he was just buying up kind of land around there

[00:54:29] Yeah, well, I mean I'm in his generator office building right now. And so I see him and yeah, yeah, I saw that you're in the generator

[00:54:38] So, you know

[00:54:40] believing and you know, I think at that time

[00:54:43] It's always a stretch

[00:54:44] You know a lot of people think developers just have oh man, but they're always walking this tie rope trying to make it all happen

[00:54:51] because you really

[00:54:53] You know you invest in that you have the mortgage you got I mean

[00:54:56] And he had he'd already had little man ice cream going no no no no

[00:55:00] So

[00:55:01] That that whole owing owing or mortuary complex that giant piece, right?

[00:55:06] You know he had the vision like wow this could be incredible

[00:55:09] And again nothing was happening around there yet. I mean it was just in fact

[00:55:14] That they were had all these programs trying to get the neighborhood to revitalize and have something happen

[00:55:20] And it was you know, we're just junk cars are being stored and

[00:55:25] Well, it took about 16 months to get the first tenant if I recall but then

[00:55:29] And then just katie bar the door after that

[00:55:32] So that they got their tenants and you know when tenants would come in then we would do the restaurant

[00:55:37] You know a lot of times was that linger like did the the restaurant come in right away?

[00:55:42] Yeah, so linger was phase two. Okay, so the first part of the owing error was the the chapel and

[00:55:50] You know the florist shop and that linger was where the herces were parked the big huge garage and all that

[00:55:57] so and I did not do linger but

[00:56:01] But

[00:56:02] We did I did a few of the tenants in the first stage and paul had a little piece of triangular land left over

[00:56:09] And he showed me this image of an ice cream can

[00:56:13] And

[00:56:15] The story is he you know paul

[00:56:18] He was a youth minister with the catholic church

[00:56:20] and he really wanted to have a business where

[00:56:24] The offshoot would be rice and beans to poor people who are hungry around the world

[00:56:29] He thought how can I get a scoop of rice into somebody's hands? He's like well, I'll sell a scoop of ice cream

[00:56:36] That's how he decided to sell ice cream

[00:56:38] It was about giving rice and beans away and then he thought it'd be fun to do it

[00:56:44] And so we figured out how to build that can

[00:56:47] You know landscape around it

[00:56:49] but

[00:56:50] You know it's turned into this

[00:56:52] You know, we thought what's the city gonna think? Oh my god, but everyone's loved it. I always thought we'd get a little pushback

[00:56:58] But you know

[00:56:59] I'm really into this idea of space and time being two sides of the same coin

[00:57:04] I love thinking about this as an architect, you know in the last couple of years and uh

[00:57:09] but that

[00:57:11] Space and time, you know because we create space all the time

[00:57:14] But we've all had this experience how time can be warped depending on this space

[00:57:19] And it's interesting how people will just stand in line forever for that

[00:57:23] You know where we we are not in our culture. We're not people who want to stand in line at all

[00:57:27] I mean at the grocery store. We're just fit to be tied

[00:57:30] So it's there's something about the landscape and you know the ice cream, but

[00:57:36] It's just such a delight to relax and meet the person next to you and

[00:57:41] And I think there's there's I'm really intrigued about how we can

[00:57:47] We can

[00:57:48] Help encourage that. I really think that you know, it comes from steven hawking's reading his stuff

[00:57:53] He talks about how space and time are really the same thing, you know

[00:57:56] I think you know, we could really go down the rabbit hole with this but

[00:58:01] There's to me. There's something really valuable there that we can and I try to think about it a lot that if we can pull off a building

[00:58:08] Or a space or it happened that route down down at the airport

[00:58:12] Oh, yeah

[00:58:13] You know that we worked really hard on that and the airport was so into it. They really helped us

[00:58:19] We were the first project ever

[00:58:21] That what they had a group out of chicago that reviews every tenant finished

[00:58:26] It was the first one where they flew in to review it with us

[00:58:29] It didn't just get sent to them. We said no, no, no, we have to sit at the table

[00:58:33] We have to meet the people reviewing

[00:58:36] Because they really it was the first time san francisco was doing this where they were inviting

[00:58:40] Local restaurants to create san francisco flavor at as f0. When was this?

[00:58:45] Um, did that get put in that would you know?

[00:58:49] Kim day she wanted to she wanted to emulate that and bring in

[00:58:53] So time. Yeah, how long ago was that? It's probably

[00:58:57] Man is it 10? I don't know but but she wanted to bring in

[00:59:02] Local flavor so it wasn't just panned express or whatever

[00:59:06] So when it was all done about a year later

[00:59:08] I talked to one I was out there and I talked to one of the servers and I said well

[00:59:12] How are maybe a few months later? It's like how are people reacting?

[00:59:16] I love as she said she said you know, it's a problem

[00:59:19] Because people forget themselves in here. They're having such a good time

[00:59:23] That they miss their flights. She says it's happening all the time

[00:59:27] And so, you know, I don't want him to miss their flight

[00:59:29] The goal was to make the airport part of your travel experience not just this inconvenience this horrible like

[00:59:38] And now my vacation starts once I get

[00:59:41] somewhere and so

[00:59:44] It it actually, you know

[00:59:46] But it makes me think about this whole part of space and time it can really um

[00:59:51] I think it's a really great thing we can play with right

[00:59:55] I mean, and I love your website of just just the simple sketch party sketch for each project

[01:00:01] And then how you're just showing so much process sketches and things and I was just looking at that

[01:00:06] route down

[01:00:08] DIA

[01:00:09] sketches today

[01:00:10] Take me through the sort of how you went about the design and design process

[01:00:16] to help

[01:00:18] Stretch that time right and and create that environment. What was it about that? Well, it's it's uh, it's really engaging

[01:00:27] With the client, you know, Justin Kuchi is this brilliant mind and uh

[01:00:32] He's he another again just an incredible listener loves to collaborate

[01:00:36] but

[01:00:37] I'll have to say, you know, absolutely a huge part of

[01:00:40] Of generating the

[01:00:42] The ideas there so I think

[01:00:45] It it really involves

[01:00:48] This empathy this understanding or this real engagement of what the client, you know, I love what kill and agai said, you know that

[01:00:55] We are a service industry, you know structural engineering and you know the services to really

[01:01:01] Help your clients speak with their own voices how I take it or just really help them achieve that big thing

[01:01:07] The first day I met Justin on the first route down

[01:01:11] We were in the parking lot of that gas station talking about the project and here's what he said he said

[01:01:16] I want a restaurant that people think about in the shower and I just thought

[01:01:21] What a great way to think like two days later. You're just in the shower, you know how people zone out

[01:01:26] And he said I want him to go. You know what that was really great. That was great food. Yeah, so that's his

[01:01:32] So I've had that move all the way through down. Yeah

[01:01:38] Well, see there it goes. Yeah, and so that was that was the goal so however we shape that but that we

[01:01:45] And then you know heavily borrowed from sarin and from the JFK, you know like respecting but utilizing

[01:01:52] You know the round spaces and trying to the golden age of air travel in the 60s with uh

[01:01:59] So there were things that we looked at and borrowed from that growing age

[01:02:03] And then you know, he loves to reuse stuff and there was the the airplane junkyard out here

[01:02:09] It's no longer there and we bought all those flaps and uh, you know, they're rusted and jagged and

[01:02:15] The airport let us put them in

[01:02:18] that so there was

[01:02:20] Just just a huge amount of ideas and collaboration and you know tons of work tons of iterations and then

[01:02:28] That flow so the the last thing we wanted was you've just been through security

[01:02:33] You know, we didn't want linear

[01:02:35] and

[01:02:36] You know a lot of the restaurants don't they the kitchens are against the glass

[01:02:40] You know we wanted to make sure we're up at the glass and the light

[01:02:43] And uh, and then we insisted on what they call the patio in the concourse

[01:02:48] And they didn't want patios at dia

[01:02:51] You know now they have been like wait a minute

[01:02:53] No, the idea is you sit there and you see people traveling and you engage and

[01:02:58] You know, so we it was just and he and he always talks about just make things a little small

[01:03:04] So you have to rub shoulders with you know, don't

[01:03:07] Just make it a little tight and then

[01:03:10] I designed those booths for one and actually jesson hates those things but

[01:03:15] But people love these you know the typical airline travelers one and a half person per table is the number if you have a restaurant

[01:03:22] So it's so so I just had how fun would it be to have a booth because people love booths, but a booth for one

[01:03:30] And uh, I've talked to so many people that love that idea. So it was just taking a

[01:03:37] Just trying to picture how you might

[01:03:41] Be with a group or with this or you're a single or how you might meet people and

[01:03:46] and it and then infuse all of that history that culture with new

[01:03:51] And a lot of playful stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so and then uh, just had that brilliant idea

[01:03:58] You know or he loves the order stuff of ebay the globes and all those gloves and

[01:04:03] The electrician was fantastic. He was so into making that work and then again

[01:04:10] D. I. I usually so strict about you all this that the other thing and you know, they're you all rated

[01:04:16] But just those lamps or the globes and so we you get

[01:04:21] I think the same thing with like the fire chief or

[01:04:25] You get people on board and excited about this huge goal

[01:04:30] And then all of a sudden things start to you know, like it goes back to my

[01:04:35] Dad saying why can I just write a grant? You know it uh

[01:04:39] I love that idea of why not and so

[01:04:43] I've realized

[01:04:44] It seems like every project to get involved with anymore is it's

[01:04:48] It's improbable is the word I use

[01:04:51] Like they're all improbable

[01:04:53] But maybe that's what attracts me and then I just say why not and then go ahead and

[01:04:58] We're doing a project on cofax right now where

[01:05:01] I was delighted to get a call from the city. She said

[01:05:05] Could we set up a time to talk with you? We have got about four or five people

[01:05:09] We just don't know how to classify your project. We don't know if it's sculpture. We don't know if it's art

[01:05:15] We don't know if it's a building. We don't know if it's landscape. We don't know if it's a sign

[01:05:20] We don't know

[01:05:21] I was thrilled to get this because i'm not trying to confuse but actually we're trying to blur things

[01:05:27] you know wake like

[01:05:29] Interesting seven eight ways eight ways exactly. Yeah, and so it's a

[01:05:34] We want people like the ice cream can like what the heck is that thing? Right?

[01:05:38] and so

[01:05:39] It's a you know, it's it's another ice cream idea

[01:05:43] But I'd love it when we're able to blur these lines and that's

[01:05:47] What we tried I think is what we try now to do in every project. It seems like that leads to this idea of a

[01:05:55] generous project or one that blurs time right?

[01:05:58] Well, and it seems like I'm guessing in the same sort of way as your as your dad like you have this sort of

[01:06:05] infectious magnetism

[01:06:07] of where you have this ability to kind of

[01:06:11] calmly

[01:06:13] I guess listen like listen empathize and then

[01:06:16] and then

[01:06:17] Generate ideas. I want to get us to to the to the

[01:06:22] Collaborative that you have

[01:06:24] And so so I can see how that how that could could draw people to you and just where again

[01:06:31] I think sort of in the same way of like I like to be by myself with with a

[01:06:37] With my architecture firm, but I like to be surrounded by a lot of architects, you know

[01:06:42] And so was that the sort of like beginning? You know, you talked about you didn't really

[01:06:46] You kind of it kind of happened again

[01:06:49] This uh, it's called pendula right yeah, right. So how did that come about and what where what is it now?

[01:06:56] well, uh

[01:06:58] Just uh there was a with agency

[01:07:02] um

[01:07:03] Again things just happened to me the

[01:07:05] I had a large

[01:07:07] Firm a large corporation out of montana by my firm really. Yeah, it became their regional office manager for a while

[01:07:14] So it just we don't have to go down there. But um, you know just got a call. Hey, we're trying to expand

[01:07:20] It was cta architects out of montana

[01:07:22] You know montana great firm and they wanted to go from 500 to 1 000 employees

[01:07:27] They wanted to go from 11 offices to 19

[01:07:30] How many did you have employees? I had 14. Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah

[01:07:34] So I had that you know, I had grown to that. Wow, you know very just traditional practice, right? Right and uh

[01:07:42] This is people like us do things like this is what you get employees

[01:07:46] This is you have an office manager. We're just emulating what I thought you should do and then I get this call and

[01:07:53] We worked together for a couple years, but it made sense to I sold that firm

[01:07:58] And so I don't have agency anymore. They bought it. They took away your agency

[01:08:01] They took away my agency and I worked with cta for a couple years and the

[01:08:06] The recession came and they decided they wanted to shrink back down. You know cta still exists here, but

[01:08:14] the

[01:08:15] You know laying off people globally it was

[01:08:18] But you know it um, it caused us to just wish each other well

[01:08:21] Which is which is great and I got my own firm back, but I had that

[01:08:27] I rented my space to the corporation

[01:08:31] and

[01:08:32] So I had this big office and at that time a couple colleagues were

[01:08:37] They had office that union station, you know that got turned into the hotel

[01:08:42] And so they and they went the recession. I think it just made sense to work out of their houses for a while

[01:08:46] 2009 or what yeah right in there. Yeah exactly and uh

[01:08:51] Ron Flaity architect and he's just he said Ted. I should just rent one of your desks

[01:08:55] So it was completely unplanned, but Ron said, you know, I need space

[01:08:59] I'll just join you give the huge space right and then Steve Lewicki and a lot of

[01:09:04] And so I had this collaborative space again. I didn't plan it, but

[01:09:09] I love it as this laboratory this experiment about how to practice adam, you know and uh

[01:09:15] Then was intriguing. I was doing a jury and one of the students said well, how do I intern at your firm?

[01:09:21] Well, I don't know. How would that work? He just rented a desk and you hang out. Yeah

[01:09:25] Yeah

[01:09:26] I just said well and it's it's turned out. I think it's not for everybody, but I think it's a fabulous

[01:09:33] Intern experience and I don't even like using that word because

[01:09:36] I really who was it kitty Barnes talked about

[01:09:39] Horizontality and I think Scott Linda now talked about that a lot too and those I love this idea of working with people and that

[01:09:47] Really even someone that's just out of school has so many thoughts and ideas

[01:09:53] I think we're all really equal in there. So I even hate using the word intern, but

[01:09:58] But let's say you're even in still in school and we have people

[01:10:02] part of the collaborative that are still in school and they

[01:10:05] Have the opportunity to start their own business and no one ever teaches us how to run a business

[01:10:11] So it's it's pretty simple and then you're able to work with all the architects in the office get that experience

[01:10:17] And then as a collaborator

[01:10:19] You just jump right in you're you're immersed in and then you're participating in the project

[01:10:25] And so I do think it's it's extremely good for someone who's just learning about the profession and then

[01:10:32] You know they contribute everything they can and ideas and

[01:10:36] And uh, I found it. It's like having a firm of 19 people without having the firm

[01:10:42] It's quite, you know, we all get to do we all are

[01:10:46] You know, we all have contracts with each other and do the

[01:10:51] You know, it's all very above board, but there's that you know, I just don't have to

[01:10:57] You know payroll and oh my god all that that I had

[01:11:00] It's I and again, I think working with people instead of four people

[01:11:05] Is a very profound change towards creating better architecture

[01:11:10] Right

[01:11:11] And you each have your own agency and are able to determine what you want to work on or not and

[01:11:16] No, I liked it a lot and and uh, I just visited

[01:11:20] A few weeks ago and you weren't in but uh, oh you were

[01:11:23] It does it does feel great like and and you know each sort of row of desks and

[01:11:29] It's all just totally open and you can kind of shout over each other and the light's great and

[01:11:35] The big chalkboard with like party sketches and I'm like constantly trying to get back to that studio experience

[01:11:41] You know of where you're just at your desks and you're oh

[01:11:44] You might be a little bit competitive, but you're all working together and you're just trying to make good stuff and

[01:11:49] And and it's kind of all inclusive, right?

[01:11:52] And it's so easy to get into architecture into a firm and it's like

[01:11:56] All right, I'm just doing life safety plans for three months or something, you know, and and it's easy to lose that

[01:12:03] But I find with those

[01:12:05] It might have to do with some of like the scale of projects that you can take on if you're a sole practitioner, you know

[01:12:12] But but where you're able to kind of keep closer tethered to that

[01:12:17] school studio experience

[01:12:21] Yeah, yeah, it's it's remarkable how willing everyone is to just share

[01:12:27] Everything they know, you know like how do you solve this problem or that?

[01:12:31] I thought there might be a little proprietary

[01:12:34] No, it's it's it's remarkable. So it's you know, we can you know, we can share work if someone's

[01:12:40] Light or someone is too much or someone's never done this type of project or

[01:12:45] It's and it is it's a good clubhouse. It's it's an experiment where

[01:12:51] You know, we bring in lunch and learns like other people we have, you know, we get together

[01:12:56] trying to instill

[01:12:58] you know conversations in the morning and

[01:13:00] Trying to steer the conversation away from frustrations with permitting

[01:13:06] Which can devour the day

[01:13:10] D-real, I mean, I'm really interested in sort of

[01:13:14] You've had this firm

[01:13:16] Well, you've had sort of multiple iterations of this firm. You had a bigger firm. You have your own thing

[01:13:22] with this collaborative

[01:13:24] Like what's what's next like? What's the the thing that's getting you excited?

[01:13:29] moving forward and

[01:13:31] Yeah, what's what's next for for the firm for the collaborative?

[01:13:34] well, I think for

[01:13:37] For for my practice what's nice right now is

[01:13:43] These um, these improbable projects keep coming in and I look at it but a lot of them are

[01:13:52] They're really trying to

[01:13:54] Do something different. There's a lot of potential. So I feel after building this all these years

[01:14:00] I'm in a good spot where

[01:14:03] I think people are

[01:14:05] seeking out

[01:14:06] Someone that's gonna

[01:14:08] You have gotten

[01:14:10] Yeah, I just continue to get these projects that they're just impossible to say no because they're

[01:14:15] They're just so captivating or you can't

[01:14:18] You can't make these things up and so

[01:14:21] So I think

[01:14:23] at least right now continue to do because

[01:14:26] It's it's a nice opportunity. I want to it'd be wonderful to to try to give some

[01:14:32] Really valuable generous inspiring projects to the city if we can pull it off and

[01:14:39] And then I think for the collaborative

[01:14:42] The energy just keeps turning up and up. I like it a lot and that

[01:14:47] I think the questions around practice are even getting more intense

[01:14:52] You know, they're the the difficulty of just getting a project done

[01:14:57] And then, you know, the whole AI thing on the horizon and then

[01:15:00] You know school is really expensive. Should I go to school? So that

[01:15:04] It feels like there's a lot Adam that we've always dealt with but I

[01:15:08] Feels like the volume is being turned up on quite a bit of and then also

[01:15:13] With all those challenges. That's what architects deal with, you know, we the opportunities. I think are getting even more and we

[01:15:20] Denver is in such a perfect spot

[01:15:22] of

[01:15:23] You know a bit of a flyover but this great, you know, it's I think it's a perfect laboratory for

[01:15:30] Things to happen in terms of architecture

[01:15:33] This, you know with all the pressures of growth and whatever, you know, and all these infusion of ideas

[01:15:39] So I'm really excited for and I'm really happy that the that the collaborative is in place

[01:15:45] To help foster

[01:15:48] I think it's going to be a it's a really good way. I think of practicing to help foster these goals. I've been talking about right

[01:15:56] And no, it's exciting and you know, again, this is just like the second time we've ever met and yeah

[01:16:02] but I really do I you know, I feel this this

[01:16:05] magnetism from you and and uh

[01:16:09] Yeah, I've enjoyed this conversation and like look forward to continuing

[01:16:13] Continuities with you and thanks for what you what you're doing, especially in my neighborhood around the highlands and

[01:16:19] The city so well, thank you, Adam

[01:16:21] What a you know, thanks for just generating

[01:16:25] conversation is really really vital and important and feeling connected and

[01:16:29] Just so excited about high low buffalo and you know your idea of consulting and cluttering more with people and the way you think and

[01:16:37] You know

[01:16:37] What a gift to be able to to sit down and you know and I'm eager to learn more about you or support

[01:16:43] You know the school what you've got going just all of the

[01:16:47] You know all these things we talk about so no, so thank you. It's a treat to spend this time with you as well

[01:16:52] Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks

[01:16:56] You can visit architecting.com. That's architect dash

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[01:17:13] Hi, I'm Eli. This show is made by my mom and dad and these people

[01:17:19] Heidi Mendoza Emily Child

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[01:17:33] This is sarah Hubbard host of you and me kid a podcast about starting and raising a family on your own

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